Anyone have any experience using these reliably, or is there a general consensus that they're no good?
I've recently rolled up a UAC Bard, i'm trying to make some determinations on training choice. I could go into air lore, but since the only sonic weapons you can summon for brawling are held rather than worn I'm wondering if I can expect it to play nice with UAC. I wasn't sure how drastic the MM modifier really was in practical terms.
I could also use the summoned weapon with a standard ATTACK verb and get the flares as well, but that seems kind of silly.
NOSHUA
KRAKII
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/23/2018 12:09 PM CST
Given how good the flares are, it's not silly at all.
And with Tonis--34 levels from now...--you'll be even faster.
Sonics are about the flares. Brawling weapons are fast (and get faster with Tonis, as I say). Fast == Flares.
Hit for 1hp of damage, do 70hp and a death-crit from the flare. You Want Flares, as many of them as possible.
And because it's Sonic, it still can't be Disarmed.
There is no difference between advice to "use a dagger" to a 1HEdged user, versus "use Brawling" to a Brawling user. (Just, don't use the big ones, katar & troll-claw and like that. 4s vs. 3s means only 3 attacks/chances of flare in 12s, versus 4 attacks/chances of flare in 12s.
When you learn Tonis, with 75 ranks of EL:Air, sure. Use a 4s weapon, because you're swinging it in only one second.
And with Tonis--34 levels from now...--you'll be even faster.
Sonics are about the flares. Brawling weapons are fast (and get faster with Tonis, as I say). Fast == Flares.
Hit for 1hp of damage, do 70hp and a death-crit from the flare. You Want Flares, as many of them as possible.
And because it's Sonic, it still can't be Disarmed.
There is no difference between advice to "use a dagger" to a 1HEdged user, versus "use Brawling" to a Brawling user. (Just, don't use the big ones, katar & troll-claw and like that. 4s vs. 3s means only 3 attacks/chances of flare in 12s, versus 4 attacks/chances of flare in 12s.
When you learn Tonis, with 75 ranks of EL:Air, sure. Use a 4s weapon, because you're swinging it in only one second.
RKNIGHT
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/23/2018 03:37 PM CST
Something to note, however, is that due to the way UAC works you'll only get half the flare rate even if you're gloves don't have any flares on them. I'm not sure what happens if you don't use handwraps and ONLY use a UAC compatible weapon. I'm assuming you get the full flare rate and suffer the UAF reduction of not having handwraps. That seems like a worthy trade off to me.
KRAKII
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/23/2018 04:00 PM CST
My bad: I was working on the assumption that you were holding a (for example) Sonic razor-paw and using 'attack'.
OM1E5GA
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/23/2018 06:55 PM CST
If you're using ATTACK, go with Krakii's advice.
If you're going to use UAC, you're most likely better off just getting the best pair of gloves/boots you can. The MM penalty is such that it's not worth holding any weapon (even the supposedly UAC compatible ones) unless they have something like exceptional weighting, auction quality flares, etc. I'm not familiar with sonic weapon flares, but as was already pointed out their frequency is halved when used with UAC which could very well make them not suited for UAC.
By all means, go ahead and try it. If it works, great. If you find yourself unable to hit what you're fighting, just stop singing the sonic weapon song and no harm/no foul.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
If you're going to use UAC, you're most likely better off just getting the best pair of gloves/boots you can. The MM penalty is such that it's not worth holding any weapon (even the supposedly UAC compatible ones) unless they have something like exceptional weighting, auction quality flares, etc. I'm not familiar with sonic weapon flares, but as was already pointed out their frequency is halved when used with UAC which could very well make them not suited for UAC.
By all means, go ahead and try it. If it works, great. If you find yourself unable to hit what you're fighting, just stop singing the sonic weapon song and no harm/no foul.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
MOURNE
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/23/2018 08:28 PM CST
One of my primary characters is a UAC bard (currently 46) and regularly uses a sonic yierka-spur to augment his UCS attacks. I find the sonic flares fire off frequently enough to make it worthwhile, even with low air lore and the flare rate reduction when wearing other UCS gear. For me, the MM hit is noticeable, but not a dealbreaker. Having the chance to parry that I wouldn't without the sonic in-hand is a nice defensive boost, though not one I'd reach for purely on its own merits. The added UAF from the sonic weapon is another slight boost that I wouldn't trade for alone but won't scoff at as an extra.
I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot and seeing how it feels. For my bard, I found it worthwhile. For my other UAC characters, I generally feel the benefits don't outweigh the MM drop.
---
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 16 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "This deal is getting worse all the time."
I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot and seeing how it feels. For my bard, I found it worthwhile. For my other UAC characters, I generally feel the benefits don't outweigh the MM drop.
---
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 16 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "This deal is getting worse all the time."
KRAKII
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/24/2018 07:36 AM CST
"Having the chance to parry that I wouldn't without the sonic in-hand is a nice defensive boost, though not one I'd reach for purely on its own merits." -- Mourne, emphasis mine
I routinely find Brace/1214 on scrolls...
I routinely find Brace/1214 on scrolls...
MOURNE
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/24/2018 12:01 PM CST
>I routinely find Brace/1214 on scrolls... -Krakii
Veering off topic here, but a) I have only occasionally and (more pertinently) b) I don't currently have the scroll reading necessary, as my UAC build is pretty phys-heavy and I've had other priorities. I wasn't implying that there were no other ways to get parry chance, but that the parry chance that one gets with holding a weapon (specifically a sonic weapon, in this conversation) can be a boon.
---
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 16 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "This deal is getting worse all the time."
Veering off topic here, but a) I have only occasionally and (more pertinently) b) I don't currently have the scroll reading necessary, as my UAC build is pretty phys-heavy and I've had other priorities. I wasn't implying that there were no other ways to get parry chance, but that the parry chance that one gets with holding a weapon (specifically a sonic weapon, in this conversation) can be a boon.
---
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 16 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "This deal is getting worse all the time."
KRAKII
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/24/2018 12:04 PM CST
Sound [heh] thinking.
I think the OP probably has enough feedback on all sides to make an informed decision.
.
(I love the sig line. :)
I think the OP probably has enough feedback on all sides to make an informed decision.
.
(I love the sig line. :)
BRANDTJRT
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/24/2018 09:04 PM CST
>>I routinely find Brace/1214 on scrolls...
Or go with one held weapon and Brace for all the victory!
With my monk, I found it's better with a paingrip, at least if it has additional abilities. I would think a sonic one could work well, and I have heard that, though not yet tried. If you can Tonis though, I would think it may work better to use it attack wise because the flares are what's good along with the ability to use a shield on top of that, unless you also have some fancy UAC gauntlets maybe.
_ _ _
Myasara says, "Raining rocks down on my city was not the best course of action."
Or go with one held weapon and Brace for all the victory!
With my monk, I found it's better with a paingrip, at least if it has additional abilities. I would think a sonic one could work well, and I have heard that, though not yet tried. If you can Tonis though, I would think it may work better to use it attack wise because the flares are what's good along with the ability to use a shield on top of that, unless you also have some fancy UAC gauntlets maybe.
_ _ _
Myasara says, "Raining rocks down on my city was not the best course of action."
NOSHUA
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/26/2018 10:27 AM CST
Thanks all for the responses.
I believe the UAC held penalty for flares only occurs if you have flaring gloves and a flaring held item (i.e. flare change / N where N is the number of flaring-capable items you have. I'll have to give it a shot, i'm curious how bad the MM penalty will be. I still haven't quite gotten the hang of how MM works, especially regarding creature stances and stuff. For example, when I lullaby creatures their MM doesn't seem to drop, but it clearly drops when they switch stance to attack me. So that's confusing. I'll give it a shot and see how it goes!
Mourne if you don't mind -- do you train TWC at all past the 1 gimmie rank for the 5 DS bonus? I've read the 0.5x bonus is only 15 extra DS so it doesn't seem very worth it to me. Assume you don't use shield?
thanks!
I believe the UAC held penalty for flares only occurs if you have flaring gloves and a flaring held item (i.e. flare change / N where N is the number of flaring-capable items you have. I'll have to give it a shot, i'm curious how bad the MM penalty will be. I still haven't quite gotten the hang of how MM works, especially regarding creature stances and stuff. For example, when I lullaby creatures their MM doesn't seem to drop, but it clearly drops when they switch stance to attack me. So that's confusing. I'll give it a shot and see how it goes!
Mourne if you don't mind -- do you train TWC at all past the 1 gimmie rank for the 5 DS bonus? I've read the 0.5x bonus is only 15 extra DS so it doesn't seem very worth it to me. Assume you don't use shield?
thanks!
MOURNE
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/26/2018 02:37 PM CST
>I believe the UAC held penalty for flares only occurs if you have flaring gloves and a flaring held item (i.e. flare change / N where N is the number of flaring-capable items you have.
That matches my understanding. If your gloves are not flaring, but you're holding a sonic UCS-compatible weapon, it seems like you should get full sonic flare rate. (I'm using flaring gloves, as they have other properties I value.)
>Mourne if you don't mind -- do you train TWC at all past the 1 gimmie rank for the 5 DS bonus? I've read the 0.5x bonus is only 15 extra DS so it doesn't seem very worth it to me. Assume you don't use shield?
I don't use a shield, no. I do train ~.5x in TWC for defensive purposes. I messed around on the test server a while back when I was debating how much I wanted to invest in TWC and I wish I kept my results... actually, I've got a few minutes to spend. Forgive the inflated numbers below, apparently the last snapshot of my bard was at 43 not long after a full spellup. Important bit is the delta between.
I probably wouldn't go over .5x until all my other skill goals were met, and a strong case can be made for just keeping to one rank for a good long while, since you may feel spread a bit thin TPwise, especially in lower levels.
---
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 16 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "This deal is getting worse all the time."
That matches my understanding. If your gloves are not flaring, but you're holding a sonic UCS-compatible weapon, it seems like you should get full sonic flare rate. (I'm using flaring gloves, as they have other properties I value.)
>Mourne if you don't mind -- do you train TWC at all past the 1 gimmie rank for the 5 DS bonus? I've read the 0.5x bonus is only 15 extra DS so it doesn't seem very worth it to me. Assume you don't use shield?
I don't use a shield, no. I do train ~.5x in TWC for defensive purposes. I messed around on the test server a while back when I was debating how much I wanted to invest in TWC and I wish I kept my results... actually, I've got a few minutes to spend. Forgive the inflated numbers below, apparently the last snapshot of my bard was at 43 not long after a full spellup. Important bit is the delta between.
| 0 ranks | 1 rank | .5x | 1x | 2x | |
| Offensive DS | 223 | 230 | 234 | 237 | 241 |
| Defensive DS | 361 | 375 | 384 | 392 | 408 |
I probably wouldn't go over .5x until all my other skill goals were met, and a strong case can be made for just keeping to one rank for a good long while, since you may feel spread a bit thin TPwise, especially in lower levels.
---
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 16 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "This deal is getting worse all the time."
NOSHUA
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/26/2018 03:12 PM CST
Thanks so much for the reply. It's nice to hear there are other UAC bards operating successfully. This is one of my first non-cookie cutter characters, so it gives me a bit of confidence.
Plus I guess I can always be a weenie and go OHE/Shield if I can't hack it. My racial selection kind of makes polearm RT a non-starter.
Thank you again for all of the advice.
MOURNE
Re: Held UAC Weapons
01/26/2018 06:20 PM CST
>It's nice to hear there are other UAC bards operating successfully.
So far so good, anyway. Good luck! You sound like you've got a decent eye on the factors involved. If you end up wanting to chat more about profession-specific tactics or build tweaks, we can probably pick this back up in the Bard folder, or on Discord.
---
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 16 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "This deal is getting worse all the time."
So far so good, anyway. Good luck! You sound like you've got a decent eye on the factors involved. If you end up wanting to chat more about profession-specific tactics or build tweaks, we can probably pick this back up in the Bard folder, or on Discord.
---
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 16 silver coins for it."
You think to yourself, "This deal is getting worse all the time."
RKNIGHT
Re: Held UAC Weapons
02/05/2018 08:10 AM CST
Handwraps, regardless of flaring potential, will negatively impact your flaring rate of any held weapons. I complained about this a long time ago and basically got told, "because reasons".
It also impacts your ensorcell rate. If you want maximum flares and maximum ensorcell with a held weapon then BOTH the gloves and handwraps will need to be flares and ensorcelled to the same tier. Your flare rate will still be half (which in the case of sonics is bad) but it gives you the potential to have both flares go off at once.
It also impacts your ensorcell rate. If you want maximum flares and maximum ensorcell with a held weapon then BOTH the gloves and handwraps will need to be flares and ensorcelled to the same tier. Your flare rate will still be half (which in the case of sonics is bad) but it gives you the potential to have both flares go off at once.
KRAKII
Re: Held UAC Weapons
02/05/2018 09:49 AM CST
Oh, now that's tasty. You could for example have fire flares on one and cold flares on the other, going against stone critters, for example...
I wonder if any of "luck" things (Boost, or Song of Luck) affect likelihood of flare? Pretty sure Boost superchargers would, of course.
.
Say, whatever happened to those "a rich golden topaz crown talisman", that were 3/day Boost superchargers...? <rummage>
I wonder if any of "luck" things (Boost, or Song of Luck) affect likelihood of flare? Pretty sure Boost superchargers would, of course.
.
Say, whatever happened to those "a rich golden topaz crown talisman", that were 3/day Boost superchargers...? <rummage>
KHARIZ555
Re: Held UAC Weapons
02/05/2018 11:17 AM CST
<<Handwraps, regardless of flaring potential, will negatively impact your flaring rate of any held weapons. I complained about this a long time ago and basically got told, "because reasons".
If that's true, it's only for held Brawling base weapons. It doesn't negatively affect held weapons outside of those that use the Brawling skill.
If that's true, it's only for held Brawling base weapons. It doesn't negatively affect held weapons outside of those that use the Brawling skill.
RKNIGHT
Re: Held UAC Weapons
02/05/2018 01:28 PM CST
I should have been more clear. Any *brawling compatible* UAC weapons while using the unarmed combat system.
