Greetings,
I recently came back to the lands after a 6 year hiatus and was happy to discover the new UAC system, especially when implemented from the rogue perspective with shielded brawler.
Within the PvE paradigm it is incredibly viable, however I have recently discovered that against players I am not receiving the same UAD push down as I do when I "punch head" from stealth against critters. Does a different verbiage exist when executing an ambushed punch against players then with critters? If I actually AMBUSH a player, I do receive the DS push down, however it is just with a closed fist, which is outside of the UAC combat system itself.
Someone had mentioned that if the opposing players perception is high enough, there is a hidden roll that makes you come out of hiding and THEN punch, thus not receiving any benefit from the ambush, but I tested this with a few different people of equal and lower level and varying trains of perception and found the results to be the same across the board; Never getting the ambush benefit and always hitting into maximum defense.
Does anyone know if this is how it is intended to work or if there is just different commands I should be using? Any info would be great!
CUTLERD13
CUTLERD13
Re: UAC and PvP
04/21/2016 10:35 PM CDT
This thread was created at the recommendation of a Senior Gamehost after not being able to get any answers through the ASSIST function. Is there anywhere else I can go to find this information out?
ROLFARD
Re: UAC and PvP
04/24/2016 04:21 PM CDT
Working as intended?
Rogue attempts to jab you!
Rogue has decent positioning against you.
UAF: 590 vs UDF: 831 = 0.709 * MM: 92 + d100: 56 = 121
... and hit for 2 points of damage!
Stiffened fingers poke into belly button.
You exhale a virulent green mist toward Rogue, instantly infecting him. Rogue convulses violently!
... 19 points of damage!
Blast bores through left leg, causing femur to buckle!
He is knocked to the ground!
He is stunned!
>
You pull Rogue to his feet.
>stop 716
With a moment's concentration, you terminate the Pestilence spell.
You exhale the last of a virulent green mist.
>
Rogue leaps from hiding to strike!
Rogue attempts to jab you!
Rogue has good positioning against you.
UAF: 590 vs UDF: 705 = 0.836 * MM: 93 + d100: 77 = 154
... and hit for 10 points of damage!
Double jab to upper and lower back momentarily unbalances you.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
And again, from open with the injury.
Rogue attempts to jab you!
Rogue has good positioning against you.
UAF: 590 vs UDF: 796 = 0.741 * MM: 72 + d100: 23 = 76
A close miss!
Rogue attempts to jab you!
Rogue has decent positioning against you.
UAF: 590 vs UDF: 831 = 0.709 * MM: 92 + d100: 56 = 121
... and hit for 2 points of damage!
Stiffened fingers poke into belly button.
You exhale a virulent green mist toward Rogue, instantly infecting him. Rogue convulses violently!
... 19 points of damage!
Blast bores through left leg, causing femur to buckle!
He is knocked to the ground!
He is stunned!
>
You pull Rogue to his feet.
>stop 716
With a moment's concentration, you terminate the Pestilence spell.
You exhale the last of a virulent green mist.
>
Rogue leaps from hiding to strike!
Rogue attempts to jab you!
Rogue has good positioning against you.
UAF: 590 vs UDF: 705 = 0.836 * MM: 93 + d100: 77 = 154
... and hit for 10 points of damage!
Double jab to upper and lower back momentarily unbalances you.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
And again, from open with the injury.
Rogue attempts to jab you!
Rogue has good positioning against you.
UAF: 590 vs UDF: 796 = 0.741 * MM: 72 + d100: 23 = 76
A close miss!
CUTLERD13
Re: UAC and PvP
04/24/2016 05:03 PM CDT
Is it?
J>punch test1
You attempt to punch test1!
You have decent positioning against test1.
UAF: 384 vs UDF: 686 = 0.559 * MM: 55 + d100: 24 = 54
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
J>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HJR>punch test1 right leg
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch test1!
You have decent positioning against test1.
UAF: 384 vs UDF: 686 = 0.559 * MM: 89 + d100: 33 = 82
A close miss!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Same UDF
Baseline UDF:
You attempt to punch test2!
You have decent positioning against test2.
UAF: 384 vs UDF: 589 = 0.651 * MM: 79 + d100: 65 = 116
... and hit for 9 points of damage!
Slap across the belly barely leaves a mark.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Ambush:
HJ>punch right leg
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch test2!
You have decent positioning against test2.
UAF: 384 vs UDF: 576 = 0.666 * MM: 98 + d100: 16 = 81
A close miss!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Minimal pushdown. Test 2 was 88 (+35 levels over me) and there was MINIMAL pushdown which is understandable.
Test1 was 79 (+26 levels over) and there was ZERO pushdown, which I feel can debunk it being level related.
Also keep in mine that the original problem stemmed from someone of like level and ZERO pushdown. So I believe there is something else at play.
J>punch test1
You attempt to punch test1!
You have decent positioning against test1.
UAF: 384 vs UDF: 686 = 0.559 * MM: 55 + d100: 24 = 54
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
J>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings, and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
HJR>punch test1 right leg
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch test1!
You have decent positioning against test1.
UAF: 384 vs UDF: 686 = 0.559 * MM: 89 + d100: 33 = 82
A close miss!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Same UDF
Baseline UDF:
You attempt to punch test2!
You have decent positioning against test2.
UAF: 384 vs UDF: 589 = 0.651 * MM: 79 + d100: 65 = 116
... and hit for 9 points of damage!
Slap across the belly barely leaves a mark.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Ambush:
HJ>punch right leg
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to punch test2!
You have decent positioning against test2.
UAF: 384 vs UDF: 576 = 0.666 * MM: 98 + d100: 16 = 81
A close miss!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Minimal pushdown. Test 2 was 88 (+35 levels over me) and there was MINIMAL pushdown which is understandable.
Test1 was 79 (+26 levels over) and there was ZERO pushdown, which I feel can debunk it being level related.
Also keep in mine that the original problem stemmed from someone of like level and ZERO pushdown. So I believe there is something else at play.
GS4-FINROS
Re: UAC and PvP
04/24/2016 05:51 PM CDT
>Within the PvE paradigm it is incredibly viable, however I have recently discovered that against players I am not receiving the same UAD push down as I do when I "punch head" from stealth against critters.
The unarmed combat mechanics for players and creatures are identical in all respects where abilities overlap. Note that players generally have better defensive abilities than creatures.
However, ambushing mechanics are not identical between melee and unarmed combat. Ambushing advantages in unarmed combat come from (1) extra tier-ups; (2) higher average MM; and (3) the equivalent of crit weighting. There is no direct UDF pushdown.
The unarmed combat mechanics for players and creatures are identical in all respects where abilities overlap. Note that players generally have better defensive abilities than creatures.
However, ambushing mechanics are not identical between melee and unarmed combat. Ambushing advantages in unarmed combat come from (1) extra tier-ups; (2) higher average MM; and (3) the equivalent of crit weighting. There is no direct UDF pushdown.
GS4-FINROS
Re: UAC and PvP
04/24/2016 05:52 PM CDT
>Working as intended?
Missed this on the first reply. What exactly are you asking about?
Missed this on the first reply. What exactly are you asking about?
ROLFARD
Re: UAC and PvP
04/24/2016 06:26 PM CDT
Posting a UDF pushdown of open vs ambushing. (that I believe was working as intended as opposed to the OP data showing little/no pushdown). I think it's clearer now.
CUTLERD13
Re: UAC and PvP
04/24/2016 07:21 PM CDT
I don't understand how it would be clearer now, you have a GM saying "There is no direct UDF pushdown" with 2 different logs in the same thread showing varying degrees of UDF pushdown.
Which is it?
Which is it?
GS4-FINROS
Re: UAC and PvP
04/24/2016 08:14 PM CDT
>I don't understand how it would be clearer now, you have a GM saying "There is no direct UDF pushdown" with 2 different logs in the same thread showing varying degrees of UDF pushdown.
UDF reduction, which occurs for various reasons, is not the same as UDF "pushdown" from ambushing. There are a variety of reasons about why the UDF can vary between attacks, which is normal and expected. There generally isn't enough information in a player log to determine a specific reason; I'd need to witness the actual attack to draw out the exact reason.
UDF reduction, which occurs for various reasons, is not the same as UDF "pushdown" from ambushing. There are a variety of reasons about why the UDF can vary between attacks, which is normal and expected. There generally isn't enough information in a player log to determine a specific reason; I'd need to witness the actual attack to draw out the exact reason.
ROLFARD
Re: UAC and PvP
04/25/2016 04:44 PM CDT
UDF reduction (not UDF pushdown) can result from ambush mechanics though. Wouldn't that be easy to state/assess?
