Great change Finros, thanks!

I would also suggest perhaps a new verb if at all possible with the same functionality of assess unarmed, simply for ease of typing. Someone suggested "position" that or something along those lines would work. Mainly this would be for being able to type it quickly using the parser, ie typing "pos" to get a view of the current battle.

I'm not sure what else would be better to convey the status information other than displaying it in the actual creature name room info, ie you see a lesser orc (grapple) or some such. However I'm certain that wouldn't be as easy to implement.

A couple of notes...want to make sure its working as intended...

I have 10 ranks of MoC so I don't get focused mstrikes...just 2 open strikes. Here are a couple of logged attacks that may or may not be working as intended. I hope they are fine as they are but want to be sure.

Flurry of Blows:

---

This atack was made against a sentinel and a banshee...the banshee had already been struck and was ready for a kick, when sentinel entered room.

Flurry of blows is currently active with 1 rank.

The Banshee got the kick it deserved...and the sentinel got his first jab as per design.

What is questionable is the activation of the flurry that got a jab in on the banshee...before the second jab on the sentinel. Is Flurry of blows intended to work in conjunction with Mstrike, meaning someone with 3 ranks in flurry could potentially hit 3 targets with open mstrike 6 times each (on a very rare success)...note, I am not complaining...just want to make sure its not a flawed mechanic.

>mstrike jab
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With instinctive motions, you weave to and fro striking with deliberate and unrelenting fury!
You attempt to kick a banshee!
You have good positioning against a banshee.
UAF: 341 vs UDF: 275 = 1.240 * MM: 109 + d100: 72 = 207
... and hit for 85 points of damage!
Smash to the chest!
Good thing there were no ribs there to shatter.
You attempt to jab a stone sentinel!
You have decent positioning against a stone sentinel.
UAF: 371 vs UDF: 348 = 1.066 * MM: 97 + d100: 48 = 151
... and hit for 3 points of damage!
Fancy twisting jab to side confuses foe!

You quickly pivot and follow up with a jab against a banshee!
You have good positioning against a banshee.
UAF: 351 vs UDF: 266 = 1.319 * MM: 100 + d100: 3 = 134
... and hit for 8 points of damage!
Decent shot to the left eye would have blinded a normal foe!
You attempt to jab a stone sentinel!
As you strike, a deep golden light surrounds your hands!
You have decent positioning against a stone sentinel.
UAF: 371 vs UDF: 302 = 1.228 * MM: 96 + d100: 44 = 161
... and hit for 4 points of damage!
Jab to chest. THUMP!
Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you off-balance and out of position.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

---

Second question/issue if you mstrike jab a single target (with no ranks in focused mstrike) you get two attacks. Given the RT its actually about the same as doing the attacks separate, but it does give you the chance to tier up in one attack. Since the RT is the same I wouldn't care if this feature was left in place for unarmed attacks, but want to make sure its not seen as mechanics abuse.

>mstrike jab
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With instinctive motions, you weave to and fro striking with deliberate and unrelenting fury!
You attempt to jab a banshee!
You have decent positioning against a banshee.
UAF: 351 vs UDF: 275 = 1.276 * MM: 85 + d100: 42 = 150
... and hit for 5 points of damage!
Weak blow leaves a brief imprint on the banshee's chest!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
You attempt to kick a banshee!
You have good positioning against a banshee.
UAF: 341 vs UDF: 275 = 1.240 * MM: 98 + d100: 28 = 149
... and hit for 56 points of damage!
Swift strike would have hit more than an ear, if only it were there.
Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you off-balance and out of position.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>[ MStrike Cooldown: +0:01:00, 0:01:00 remaining. ]

Cool change.

It would be interesting if you could, in the future, weave unarmed with melee weapon combat a bit, considering that many ended up using unarmed as a support style instead of a primary hunting method.

Just a quick example by modifying what was posted:

Change:
in which case choose a random attack from PUNCH, GRAPPLE, and KICK instead

To:
in which case choose a random attack from PUNCH, GRAPPLE, and KICK instead, except that if the character is holding a melee weapon in his right hand a weapon attack is made.

Hey, I recognize those boots - the sister pair!

Terminator-style monomania is exactly how Giacomo intended Warrior Berserk to be.

i) I get long enough RT on a triple focussed strike, e.g. 9s for a triple punch, that I don't want it, although I do want it with a weapon (where I get 3 swings for the RT of 2 rather than 3 swings for the RT of 3). Can there be a separate flag for setting the maximum number of UAC mstrikes? I'm not sure how people are managing 5 kicks for less RT than I get 3 punches for, but spending 3 times as long on a triple punch as a single punch is far too much (if it was 6s I'd take it, and if I could get 5 kicks in 8s I'd take them, but the RT I get is far too long for the strikes my MOC allows. The other reason I want to restrict it is that mstrike jab critter looks like an excellent way of tiering up, but a double strike is all it needs to set the critter up for a kill and I don't want to be wasting more RT on ineffective random shots when I have an opening for an aimed kill shot. I'm not seeing anything that makes me want to restrict my initial open UAC mstrike (repeats on the same swarm aren't worth the RT whether its 2 or 5 swings in my testing), but so far I haven't found a situation where I want the third of a focussed strike.

ii) I'm not sure what happens with an opening open mstrike is intended or not, and if it is intended how many strikes it supposed to count as.

With 3 critters I see jab plus opening exploitation on first, jab plus opening exploitation on second, jab plus opening exploitation on third. Is a double strike on every critter intended, and if so is this counting as 3 strikes (opening jab on each critter is free), or 5, (opening jab on first critter is free).

Its a very nice option for an opening move to get a multijab with automatic exploitation included, but so far I haven't found a follow up mstrike tactic that isn't random flailing for far too much RT compared to the damage it inflicts.

iii) Having ready access to information about critter status is important for that follow up to the initial mstrike. I'd actually like to have a separate "Enemies" window with this sort of thing in it and without the clutter of pets and loot that the Room window has as well as being able to access detail about a critter's UAC status to other characters by looking (or some other action, appraise, assess UAC, whatever) at the critter.

but 6 strikes for the MOC of 3 with tier ups on every one? That's so generous compared to the rest of the mechanic I have trouble believing its happening.

The free jab is a generous twist on the existing mstrike mechanic and will make UAC tier progression much more enjoyable. Such a great change.

In terms of RT how much AGIDEX do you have? I would think monks could get the minimum RT easier than most with burst and perfect self. I dont have enough MOC for 5 swings anymore but I get 4 punches in 6 seconds with a 15 second recovery period at the moment.

What is questionable is the activation of the flurry that got a jab in on the banshee...before the second jab on the sentinel. Is Flurry of blows intended to work in conjunction with Mstrike, meaning someone with 3 ranks in flurry could potentially hit 3 targets with open mstrike 6 times each (on a very rare success)...note, I am not complaining...just want to make sure its not a flawed mechanic.

Hmm. Forgot about that. I'll give it some thought.

Honestly, the way it stands, I doubt it will encourage much use of the flurry of blows stance. I always felt flurry of blows was created to make up for us not being able to mstrike with UAC. In the end even if it were to give me 6 jabs on 3 targets in a single attack (which would be extremely rare, but I believe possible under the rules), I would personally be more likely to use Krynch or Slippery Mind in any combat situation I can consider.

In my mind 6 jabs < 3 punches...unless you are fighting something really young with extra low health.

One suggestion I would make...unless I am wrong and someone indeed does use flurry in high level areas...would be the following.

Change Flurry of blows to work with as follows.

Rank 1 - +1 Open mstrike target, -1 sec jab weapon speed for mstrikes

Rank 2 - +1 Open mstrike target, -1 second punch/grapple weapon speed for mstrikes

Rank 3 - +1 Focused mstrike target, -1 second kick weapon speed for mstrikes

This would give monks a slight speed advantage with UAC mstrike over every other class, as well as giving them a higher cap in number of UAC mstrike attacks over anyone else. This would also make it a tough choice whether to go for the extra punch with focused mstrike, or the auto tier of krynch.

How does krych work with UAC mstrike? Suppose I have just finished off a critter with an excellent punch and two fresh ones gen? What does mstrike punch do?

Is the first attack on both a free jab but possibly at good or excellent if krynch activates or if krynch activates is it a punch instead? Am I actually better off if krynch activates to give me good (jab at good with followup with something at excellent as opposed to jab at excellent with no chance of followup).

Does the second mstrike target to be resolved use position from the previous kill, or the previous resolved mstrike attack? e.g. suppose krynch whiffs on the first but there is a jab opening followed up to give position at good, is this attack's krynch chance based off excellent (the position before mstrike punch) or good, (the position from the last of the mstrike attacks to be resolved)?

If opening jabs are not at decent due to krynch (and/or lucky and/or ambush tiers) are they still free? Is a lucky tier on top of an ambush tier actually unlucky in the same way as an opening krynch at excellent rather than good might be worse?

Does mstrike punch used from hiding give the ambush tier on all targets, the first resolved only, or none?

I think I've seen an example of the first attack being a jab at good with automatic followup as a result of the lucky tier on a focussed strike so presumably in that case the decision on freebie jab is being made before the tier check.

Good god, how many people are hunting Thanatoph? GoldenOak2's down there monk-bashing 'em, and I saw an archer down there pot-shotting them, too.

In one hunt I saw more people there than I've seen up in the Sheruvian Monastery in two weeks, with two different characters up there. (I believe I stumbled across ONE guy up there, ONE time, and never saw him again after that.)

Anywhere else that I could look for stone trolls to be by themselves, rather than trying to take on those nasty indigestible stone giants as well?

</thread hijack>

Sorry about that.

Hey, I'm already going +8 for the trolls; +11 for the giants is a bit much. :(

>Its not the same as weaponry. My 5s weapon give one strike in 5s. but 2 in 7. My 4s kick gives one kick in 4s but two take 8.

Oh, I see how you mean it. I suppose that there's not really a good way to explain it, since the mstrike RT code is, frankly, a tangled mess. Even after I rewrote it from scratch (albeit preserving the old logic). Strictly speaking, the RT calculation goes through the same steps for both melee and unarmed strikes, but the "base weapon speed" for this calculation is not actually the swing speed. The RT formula given on the player wiki isn't actually the way it is implemented in the code, even though it arrives at the same result for melee weapons. In this particular case, it does look like unarmed strikes are a bit slower, even though they can be faster with more total strikes. If I ever rewrite mstrike RT handling in general, a few oddities like this will probably be smoothed out.

>I haven't done a huge amount of testing, and in situations that should give a high chance normally (stunned, prone and stanced with me having 0-8 levels on them), but I've yet to see it fail.

Right. More precisely, the base chance for a tier-up is not 100%, but level and status modifiers can easily bring it up to that.

>How does krych work with UAC mstrike? Suppose I have just finished off a critter with an excellent punch and two fresh ones gen? What does mstrike punch do?

It is treated exactly the same as if you carried out the strike sequence one attack at a time instead of via mstrike (and the combat messaging reflects that). Here is an example, starting with a krynch carryover from "excellent positioning" against a foe which was dead before this attack started. Note that the free jabs happen based on how I started the attack, not based on what krynch took me to. I got lucky with krynch carryovers against all five combatants in this example, so I ended up at good or excellent positioning against all of them, with ten attacks total because I started at decent positioning versus all of them.

>mstrike punch
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With instinctive motions, you weave to and fro striking with deliberate and unrelenting fury!
You attempt to jab a triton combatant!
You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant!
You have good positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 96 + d100: 42 = 147
... and hit for 8 points of damage!
Light punch to stomach makes the triton combatant gasp.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup punch attack!
You attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 92 + d100: 48 = 149
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Fully extended punch crushes the bones in the triton combatant's right arm.
You attempt to jab a triton combatant!
You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant!
You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 100 + d100: 12 = 122
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Lackluster jab to the mid-back.
You attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 98 + d100: 35 = 143
... and hit for 34 points of damage!
Furious punch to the right arm cracks bones!
You attempt to jab a triton combatant!
You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant!
You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 95 + d100: 79 = 183
... and hit for 21 points of damage!
Fast strike jars the spine.
You attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have excellent positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 92 + d100: 47 = 148
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Rotating backhand cleanly snaps tibia!
The triton combatant is knocked to the ground!
The triton combatant starts to favor its wounded leg!
You attempt to jab a triton combatant!
You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant!
You have good positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 100 + d100: 96 = 206
... and hit for 19 points of damage!
Hard blow to abdomen does bad things to the triton combatant's digestive system!
You attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have good positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 99 + d100: 42 = 151
... and hit for 27 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with left shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The triton combatant is knocked to the ground!
You attempt to jab a triton combatant!
You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a triton combatant!
You have good positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 94 + d100: 10 = 113
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Lackluster jab to the mid-back.
You attempt to punch a triton combatant!
You have good positioning against a triton combatant.
UAF: 555 vs UDF: 503 = 1.103 * MM: 93 + d100: 61 = 163
... and hit for 29 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with right shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
The triton combatant is knocked to the ground!
Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you off-balance and out of position.
Roundtime: 9 sec.

I think that should have answered all your followup questions as well.

I think the problem is that UAC attacks have a base weapon speed equal to their minimum RT...vs other small weapon types the base weapon speeds are normally 1-2 seconds less than the minimum RT.

As far as I can tell pretty much every melee weapon with a minimum RT of 4 has a weapon speed of 2...and the ones with minimum RT 3 have weapon speed 1. But with UAC the weapon speed and the minimum RT are the same, so UAC slows down faster under encumbrance, and gets less benefit from small weapon type for Mstrike speeds.

Not sure if the higher base weapon speed is intentional due to the power top tier UAC attacks can get on vulnerable targets.

>It should be possible to smooth out the code without nerfing mstrike RT.

Who said anything about nerfing? And you're basically restating what I just said. To wit, if I ever rewrite the RT handling, it will be smoothed out. For the moment, I am happy with its current implementation and am not going to randomly whip off a second here or there for particular use cases until I revisit the whole thing. Doing that is exactly how we wind up with tangled messes in the first place.

>The reason for this is that for at least 2 of my characters, they are more interested in several fast hits with high flare frequency weapons (sonic cestus for example) instead of the more powerful but slower tiered attacks, so three jabs would potentially be more efficient for less RT.

For this purpose, in terms of RT and average flare damage, you are actually better off doing a melee strike with the cestus. Remember that unarmed combat reduces the flare activation frequency of your equipment in proportion to the number of pieces that you are using. You may get lucky with three flares at the same time (higher peak damage), but the average flare frequency is one third of normal in that case. Meanwhile, a melee mstrike with the cestus is faster than a jab mstrike.

I'm not sure how everything works under code by I do know how it works on my char. When I was in full plate and swinging two katars I could swing 10 times in 5 seconds. As a monk I can swing 5 times in 6 to 7 second and every now and then longer. To me that doesn't add up very well considering without armor and weapons the monk should be as fast if not faster with an equal amount of swings considering.

Githros

with the two katars I only needed my vambraces to get to 5 sec rt with 190 moc ranks and 12 swing. I have a couple more items now that help out and a lot more agil/dex now then before and uac moc is by far slower still.

no more stat growth available, and with burst and my enhanvices I already hit the max for agility at 140 and dex not far below. so 6s looks to be my least. will see when I get back up to 190, went to 135 ranks moc when I switched to monk.