<<<The base speeds (minimum RT) of some unarmed attacks have been revised downward. Jab has been reduced from 3 to 2, grapple from 4 to 3, and kick from 5 to 4. Punch and smite remain at 3 and 4, respectively.>>>

Excellent update! :)

~ GtG

>It preserves the power of UAC from ambush (punch will still be the attack of choice, though grapple might be nice for its locational effects) while increasing the power of open UAC by speeding up jab tiering.

If you are aiming an attack punch is still always better than grapple (unless you actually want to keep the critter alive after you've wounded it).

I think the choice between punch and kick becomes interesting for both ambush and open situations, but grapple remains flavor/RP. I reckoned punch would have had to go up to 4 as well as grapple dropping to 3 to make the choice between them interesting. Maybe if grapple was a base 2 (and consequently easier to hit the aimed location) but still minimum 3 it would become an interesting choice for aimed attacks.

I think Qstrike (only 3 ranks not full training) remains important to have after mid level for non-volners to use on some jab/grapple tiering (go for the kill with an aimed shot if it will be an excellent grapple, but unaimed qstrike if it would be good grapple or any jab), and it remains essential if you want to use smite for your own benefit when solo rather than as a set up to help others when grouped.

...

I'd like smite to be changed to an effect that was used in a similar way to qstrike. i.e. Rather than a separate attack, it modifies the attack.

smite punch undead

This would make a punch attack with a smiting effect. Maybe it adds an extra 3s (reducable to a minimum of an extra 1 with AGIDEX). Maybe it requires the same roll for success that other Voln attacks do as well as the UAC attack success.

As a setup that itself requires setting up and also gets in the way of tiering, its just too much wasted time as it stands and you are almost always faster to bleed out non-corps than to waste that time to crit them.

>I reckoned punch would have had to go up to 4 as well as grapple dropping to 3 to make the choice between them interesting.

I briefly considered raising the RT of punch, but decided it wasn't the best thing to do at this juncture. The upper-end tier two crits in punch are probably too good, particularly when aimed, but I only recognize that now in hindsight. I'm not inclined to reduce the effectiveness of any attack type at this point, but it remains a possibility down the road after some other general updates.

>Maybe if grapple was a base 2 (and consequently easier to hit the aimed location) but still minimum 3 it would become an interesting choice for aimed attacks.

Unarmed attacks are similar, but not identical to, melee attacks. Although there is a modifier based on attack type, it isn't quite the same as weapon speed. You raise an interesting point, though; I'll give some thought to fiddling with the modifiers. Perhaps grapple should actually be the easiest one to aim.

<<<The other thing that makes grapple weak is the holes in its crit tables where it fails to inflict status effects at high crit ranks. Extra effects at low ranks don't compensate for holes at high crit ranks. e.g. grapple leg gets a knockdown at rank 3, but not at rank 7. Punch leg gets a knockdown at every rank from 5 upwards. If I'm just flailing wildly I might see knockdowns from Tier 1 grapples before Tier 2 punches, but if I am deliberately trying for a knockdown as part of my tactics, its punch every time.>>>

That makes the martial artist in me cringe. There are so many issues here.

Generally in martial arts, most takedowns are throws of some kind. Hip throws, shoulder throws, major inner reapings, etc. We have none of those in the UAC system.

Grappling a leg is not usually done as a takedown, because it leaves you vulnerable to attack. It's fine in MMA or wrestling because there are rules against smashing your elbow (or a weapon!) into the back of the head, neck or spine. Not so much in the real world. The best grappling targets for a takedown would actually be the head, neck and arms. Arms (and hands) provide access to some of the most common takedowns taught in self-defense classes, namely armbars and wrist locks. The head and neck are also excellent choices, because where the head goes, the body follows. Any grappling target can be an effective closer, but for takedowns...the leg would be my last choice.

In the real world, if I were faced with an armed opponent, my very first choice (aside from running away) would be to grapple the weapon arm to disarm my opponent. Then I might go for a takedown (either a throw or jointlock, probably), or simply finish the job with striking techniques. I still wouldn't grapple the leg. But it should remain a possible target, because it's a game, after all.

Unlike the movies, sweeps are not often effective as takedowns. They can be, but usually they are just used to get your opponent off balance for a follow up attack, rather than an actual take-down. The problem with a sweep as a takedown is it doesn't leave you in a good position to follow through. With a throw, you never lose hold of your opponent and can go straight into a strike, submission or choke. Of course, in Gemstone, sweeps are only available as a CMAN or guild skill. That said, I think their implementation in the game is fairly accurate.

While there are certain techniques that involve punching a leg, they are fairly impractical and of very limited use. Fleshy targets just above the knee are good targets for striking, and can cripple an opponent. But they are very difficult to hit, and the opportunity to use such an attack would be very rare. Punching a leg while faced off with an opponent in real life is, I'm sorry to say...kind of silly. In Gemstone...it makes sense if your opponent is much larger than you are. Indeed, that could be the only target you could reach! But for same size, humanoid opponents...eh, no.

Kicking the legs can be an effective takedown technique often found in martial arts. Muay Thai style roundhouse kicks to the legs can be devastating. The disadvantage to these types of kicks is they require grueling conditioning to strengthen the shins and deaden the nerves (seriously). Side kicks to the front or side of the knee can also be brutal, and require far less conditioning. Either way, leg kicks are solid targets for takedowns, especially against untrained opponents.

Of course, fighting armed and armored monsters with your bare-hands requires a lot of suspension of disbelief, anyway. A true martial artist wouldn't attempt such a foolish endeavor, unless he or she had no other choice. Martial arts training almost always includes weapon training. Contrary to fantasy RPG tradition, even true monks trained extensively in weapons.

Anyway...if I were to apply any of this knowledge to the UAC system, I might suggest the following.

Disallow punching the legs of a standing, same-size or smaller opponent. Attempting to target the legs in such cases would result in a random location (elsewhere). Against larger or prone opponents, leg shots would work as normal.

Implement throws. Implement throws. Implement throws! Did I mention throws?

Grappling is tricky, since the techniques can be used for a variety of purposes. I would say it's probably fine as it is, if throws were implemented. There's only so much we can do here.

Kicking the leg should be the most reliable takedown technique in the UAC system. For one, it has a longer RT (not going to debate the logic of that for now), so the effect should be commensurately greater. Two, it's most effective and realistic vs. a standing, same-size opponent, especially one who is armed. It should certainly be preferred over punching a leg, or even grappling a leg for that matter. The only thing better would be...throws!

Of course, it's just a game, so I wouldn't expect it to mirror reality in every possible way. The fight scenes in movies certainly don't, and our gameplay should reflect the excitement of movie fighting much more than the mundane real-world. So you can take my observations with a grain of salt.

I just enjoy talking shop. :)

~ GtG

Ambushing UAC user here. I hit things in the leg ONLY if I can't hit something else. Unfortunately, this has been just about everything I have been hunting recently; the only thing in the Stronghold whose head is hittable on the first attack are those damnable stone mastiffs, who seen to have some sort of padding. But if I can reach the head/neck, I go for that; or if the abdomen is reachable, I'll try and put a fist through its spleen.
Also, I consider the punch to the leg of a critter 20 feet tall as basically an attempt to shatter the tibia, not the better padded femur.


"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

<<<What if your target doesn't know you are there? Most Gemstone combat is about mugging victims before they are in a position to fight back. It might not be practical to punch someone in the leg who is facing you and aware of your hostile intent, but what if you are behind them, they are three times your height, and they aren't aware of you? Thats the typical situation for UAC legging an opponent in GS.>>>

A fair point. :)

~ GtG