I'd love to see a maneuver based hurling attack. Classic hurl could be thought of as aimed sniping, and maneuver hurl could be thought of as a more brutish form, like one would hurl a boulder.

It could max out quickly, at 3 ranks.
1 rank would give you the command, like a basic understanding of hurling an object at someone else, you can only achieve certain kinds of effects based on your strength and dex bonus.
2 ranks would allow skills to affect your ability, like 100 ranks thrown/perception up to 1x per level would max out your ability to hit. 100 ranks of thrown and ambush up to 1x per level would max out critical effects. Maybe it requires 20 ranks of thrown to be able to learn rank 2.
3 ranks would allow you to hurl something directly from a container or from the ground.

Crits would be largely based on the weight of the object being thrown, and will perform much like a combination of tackle and charge.
Complete failure = you on the ground
partial failure = miss
slight failure = miss but target dodges the attack and ends up stancing up, in RT, like a costly feint success.
slight success = miss target but target wildly dodges the attack ending up sprawled out on the ground
success = hit, with crits similar to charge
major success = weapon will fly quickly into critter smashing said target, with up to 2 other critters in the room diving out of the way of the perfectly aimed weapon turned missile who end up on the ground/in small amounts of rt.

So it's like a gimped major ewave at best, and similar to charge with availability only when there are excess weapons around. Have stamina use based on weight of the object used, so damage potential rises along with stamina use. Makes sense, no? Heaviest weapons require 2 hands empty to hurl. It'll end up being used as much as something like charge, or other costly maneuvers. It might sound like a cheap skill to train in, but if the cman cost is say the standard 2/4/6, or 3/6/9, or 4/8/12 like some of the 3 rank cmans, then the maneuver is quite expensive with the addition of thrown/perception, and ambush ranks. If it's 4/8/12 for a semi that typically 1x CM, then they won't max out ranks until 24 trains at best. It won't reach its max potential until 50 trains with 1x thrown/perception/ambush, and would be useable by most capped characters that can afford to have a free hand.

It'll be most useful for people who hunt barehanded, somewhat useful to those with a two-handed weapon, and maybe sometimes used by archers, but probably not. It'll probably be most useful for monks who hunt with dragonclaw. It's a sort of crowd control, without being unfocused mstrike, and available only when other weapons are present, or to those who stash a 9-13 lb weapon in case they might need it.

Certain weapons could have different bonuses to different actions. A maul or other large weapons would have a larger chance at major success, like 90 endroll vs 95, but also a greater chance at slight success, 1-35 end roll vs 1-20 end roll. Smaller weapons would have a bigger chance at standard success, and bonus to hit. Thrown based weapons, and weapons that make sense to be thrown, like handaxes, spears, daggers, or hammers could have a bonus to hit. I think that mechanic is already in effect.

It'd be even better if other items could be thrown, like shields, helmets, chairs, logs, or whatever else might be around. If damage is weight based, it makes sense, and crits are crush based. If this is the case, then the best item to find is a random 40 lb box, which becomes a death sentence to anyone who might stumble your way, but of course RT, and stamina cost will be high. Wouldn't that be a good time? Hurling a trunk you just looted? Dream come true.

I'm all for being able to throw random objects, but why make it a CMAN? I've been an advocate of being able to hurl random objects such as bricks and table legs and smooth stones. Just training in hurling should be enough, and maximum potential shoudl require maximum hurling training, not halfway.

Kerl

Because training diligently for the life of your character makes you into a sniper. My idea makes you into a brute. I support the idea for sniping daggers, or darts into eyes, but what does being a level 100 disciplined, fully trained hurler look like? Your max potential is Bullseye from the marvel comics, who can throw a dart in between the slits of plate armor, and my idea of max potential is more like cave troll, tossing a big rock at said knight in plate armor. They're 2 different paths. My idea is more maneuver based results, and less crit based.

Your diligently trained hurler for life should throw 3 darts at the same time, hitting a leg, an arm, and a neck ... or 3 daggers at the same time without even flinching.

I know that this picture doesn't work with the current mechanics, but what if there was another cman that was like sniping, and mfire? What if you couldn't train in these skills with Cman points, but weapon lore points? These points are only valid towards relevant weapon skills. Can a hurler learn to disarm? Probably not ... Nor can we learn to tackle, that's for brawlers, or charge, or shield bash, which is for shield users ... weapon lore points could even be worth 1/2 a standard CM point, but it would be 2x as useful because you only get skills that are useful to your weapon type.

Let's create a new picture of diligently trained hurler for life ...

First we start out as cave troll, throwing small things, and graduating to big things.
Then we decide to use our weapon lore points to focus on being able to snipe, or to mfire, both are equally difficult.
Both those skills have a higher ceiling, and eventually, 2xing for life, you can be a master of both.

Let's say that maxing out all skills makes you hurling master which is -1 rt to all skills. Mean ...

But where cave troll-style hurling caps, sniping, and mfire only begin to open up. We already have this implemented, sorta, but poorly.
Sniping is the standard hurl attack. Mfire is theoretical multistrike attack, which looks like focused/unfocused mstrike.

I like the idea of 2 different systems with each maxing out at different points depending on training. It mimics the spell lists which change in usefulness as levels go on and situations change. A top level wizard just has all abilities in his arsenal, depending on his lore study, at differing levels of effectiveness. Study hurl for life, but the path branches out to sniping, big objects, or multiple targets, and then some.

Whatcha think?

"But I don't it is something that should be done by just adding another side-cost to it."

I didn't mean that we should have a new weapon lore skill to train in. I meant that weapon ranks should give some points like armor ranks do, and these points are only good for certain skills. It'd be neat. If you study TWC, you get twc points to use. If you use katars, or katanas, you'd get more points from studying 2 different styles. It ends up looking like what you're saying here-

"Instead, I personally would like it done by skill/rank thresholds within the core skills. Have X number of ambush ranks and you can do X thing in combat."

Only, I didn't think of ambush skills ... only weapon skills. Since we're in the thrown weapons folder, we'll just talk thrown weapons. Each rank gives you 1 point, and (for argument's sake) the points are similar to guild skill points. It takes 40-60 ranks to cap a skill. This makes the points worth about half as much as cman points, as it takes about 30 right now. Cman points are also more valuable since you can use them for things like combat mobility, side by side, martial stances, and all the other stuff that isn't weapon based. So at 40 ranks thrown weapons, you can cap a skill that has some effectiveness, or continue to study a skill that continues to be a viable hunting path with diligent training.

You study edged, and dabble in thrown. Through your thrown skill, you can study hurl boulder, mfire, weapon juggle (I just made that up), and maybe something like thrown weapon tactics. Since you 1x thrown, you get 100 points at cap. Hurl boulder will be somewhat useful, so you study that, which is about as effective as charge is, but you still have extra points at cap. You finish off your points with weapon juggle, which allows you to toss your weapon in the air, perform 1 throwing action, then grab your weapon again. Some people will opt for thrown weapon tactics, which gives some neat status effects, added DS after you've thrown a weapon, and a chance to bypass armor that looks like a reduction in opponent crit divisor/increase in DF. Some will 2x the skill, and skip hurl boulder as it is a dabbler skill. They focus on capping mfire asap, then study thrown weapon tactics, working on eventually becoming an mstriking hurler/sniper/whirlwind of flying daggers. Or, maybe you 2x the skill, and you're also doing TWC, so weapon juggle is necessary to utilize 2 handed mstrike, so you can only get 1 rank of thrown weapon tactics, but you can throw twice the amount of daggers at the same time! Some monk going this route will try to cap this skill at the lowest train possible, with unarmed combat, and TWC, it leaves almost no room for spells, but achieving house of flying daggers status will be possible by 60 trains.

Hunting anything in heavy armor makes thrown weapons useless, so some deal with it through another weapon skill, thrown weapon tactics which mitigates the issue somewhat, along with a secondary skill of sniping, or focused mstrikes.

So what does combat look like? Some dabblers hurling with a cman, some people mstriking with a bundle of throwing stars, some people throwing while not being disarmed, some people having some cheap shot-like status effects with harder throws, and at cap, some people can do multiple things, but not all.

Maybe CM points and weapon rank points can be used to buy the same things, with CM points being worth more, or maybe not.


Issues with hurling -

Hurl ds - mitigated by weapon juggle skill, but still needs complimentary weapon style.
Hurling high quality weapons - mitigated by theoretical thrown weapon tactics which can throw "through" armor.
Hurling high quality weapons no longer is the only way to go, as hurling many cheap weapons can achieve a greater effect.
Even after 2x training, it isn't as effective as a normal weapon route/it's more of a dabbler type of skill, then give dabblers something to do - hurl boulder type skill.
Picking up a weapon that you aren't trained in with the desire to throw it gives DS issues, then allow hurling to happen from the ground (hurl boulder) or containers (juggle) with the 1st rank of each skill.
Losing weapons isn't as big an issue if you're never using expensive weapons.

Hurl vs archery - Archery only works as a focused discipline, but is much more effective. You can stay hidden better, as arrows are more difficult to see than flying daggers, darts, and axes. You can carry much more ammunition. Hurling allows some sort of crowd control. It complements weapon use better than archery does.

So, I guess I don't want a bandaid, but more like 4 bandaids.