This weekend, a raffle was scheduled on the same minute as a raffle our CHE had on the calendar since the start of the month. The calendar for Saturday was otherwise pretty empty, lending little excuse for the overlap.
One calendar item was planned since before 3rd October. Another event was announced 20th November and was not put on the calendar. The first was organized by players and added to the calendar with the help of staff. The second was done only by staff. It's embarrassing. This is not a rare and exceptional example, rather it's common place -- typically several times a year for our CHE I believe.
This major disparity is not only unfair because staff should be held to a higher standard than players, it's simply rude. Official events should either 1) Provide enough notice so that player run events can avoid them; 2) Respect the precedence of existing events which are already planned. Unfortunately, official events on the whole systematically fail to satisfy either of these criteria too often.
This problem has been on-going for years and seemingly nothing effective has been done to address it. Just last month I complained because even the basic timeframes for EG weren't released before the CHE deadline. Players are literally required to give more notice and specificity for something like, "We're going to tour the Marsh Keep!" than the company can usually give even for a ballpark estimate of which weekend money-making events like Duskruin or Ebon Gate will take place. Staff's response to my complaint was that having a variety of overlapping events is good because players have choices; however the response from the playerbase almost unanimously rejected this claim as far as I followed the discussion.
I would like to avoid scheduling conflicts between our CHE events and official events, but there is typically nothing more that I can do. Collectively, staff and players together put a lot of time into producing the calendar, but as of now the effort is insufficient to achieve a reasonable harmony. Please make more effective use of this valuable scheduling resource, otherwise we are defeating the purpose of the work that goes into event planning and scheduling in the first place.
DAID
KRAKII
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/28/2017 12:42 PM CST
There's a difference between
and
As described, those raffles sound like the latter.
(Now, yes, I realize that raffles on the whole tend to be pretty forgiving. Buy the ticket, walk on; remember to be logged in when they draw. But still.)
.
I'm not involved with any organization, and I find it hard to give credence that staff would have not even a general feel for "yeah, we're thinking the second versus the third weekend of February, for EventX." And yes, I realize that PersonY's schedule may not allow for them to run an event except in this time window that they're on...
...but that kind of scheduling is pretty rude. Shift it +/- 15 (though 30 would be better) minutes.
If the CHE/MHO calendar requests are required to come in early by <some minimum time window> in order to get onto the calendar, a bare minimum of reciprocal courtesy should have the staff announcing NOT LESS THAN <some other time window> for their events.
Yes, I understand "Flash Crowds" or "Pop-Up Sales". Yes, I understand micro-events. Yes, I understand demon (or turkey) invasions. Little stuff--and Kenstrom-Instigated Standard Storyline grand arcs--happen when they need to happen (someone is available, or "this needs to happen at this particular lunar cycle", or whatever).
But... isn't this kind of thing, that the calendar is FOR?
| "offering choices" (because the buffet is so full, like deciding whether to attend at Merchant's Lists X or Y or Z during Ebon Gate) |
and
| "shafting a group with a conflict" (because we drove over your time slot). |
As described, those raffles sound like the latter.
(Now, yes, I realize that raffles on the whole tend to be pretty forgiving. Buy the ticket, walk on; remember to be logged in when they draw. But still.)
.
I'm not involved with any organization, and I find it hard to give credence that staff would have not even a general feel for "yeah, we're thinking the second versus the third weekend of February, for EventX." And yes, I realize that PersonY's schedule may not allow for them to run an event except in this time window that they're on...
...but that kind of scheduling is pretty rude. Shift it +/- 15 (though 30 would be better) minutes.
If the CHE/MHO calendar requests are required to come in early by <some minimum time window> in order to get onto the calendar, a bare minimum of reciprocal courtesy should have the staff announcing NOT LESS THAN <some other time window> for their events.
Yes, I understand "Flash Crowds" or "Pop-Up Sales". Yes, I understand micro-events. Yes, I understand demon (or turkey) invasions. Little stuff--and Kenstrom-Instigated Standard Storyline grand arcs--happen when they need to happen (someone is available, or "this needs to happen at this particular lunar cycle", or whatever).
But... isn't this kind of thing, that the calendar is FOR?
MORENO
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/28/2017 11:28 PM CST
Did you have an event planned around the raffle or was it just the raffle draw?
~ The girl behind Debia
www.ElanthianEvents.com
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~ The girl behind Debia
www.ElanthianEvents.com
Find me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/angelofsharath
JL177
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/29/2017 08:43 AM CST
I'm sure there are efforts to try and avoid this conflict, but it still happens way too many times. It should be common courtesy to check the calendar and make sure you're not in direct conflict with another group. A raffle seems especially silly to have this happen.
DAID
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/29/2017 03:45 PM CST
Thanks for the responses. Goatfest went very smoothly overall this year (no drama). If it wasn't the three out of four months in a row something else overlapped with one of our events I probably would have blown off a raffle conflict. It's actually not that the raffle conflict is a large problem to deal with, but it begs the question of why there was an unnecessary overlap that was easily avoidable. We work hard for our events and struggle for attendance records. As a CHE chair for RR that lives outside North America, I can tell you all the horrors involved with scheduling to make a successful event.
I was trying to actually check how many event conflicts we had in the last 12-18 months to avoid any exaggeration, but the funny thing of course with the calendar being poorly used is one cannot even find clear evidence for many conflicts (without relying on the TownCrier or similar). SimuCon overlapped with Frontier Days this year; EG was announced too late, so we re-scheduled our event; there was the present raffle issue. I recall someone complained to me about some scheduling "over DR" but I've no idea when that was. There was a particularly memorable one, with Beacon Hall having an event in WL a bit over a year ago, and some RR festival being announced merely days in advance, covering almost the same time slot on the same day. (There are likely other conflicts between these timeframes I have neglected.)
So generally there have been two classes of overlaps I notice: odd/peculiar and large scale irresponsibility. If there were overlaps with some obscure event say in Ta'Vaalor for Elves while we're trying to kill and maim each other at Beacon Hall I didn't notice or care -- obviously with small or spontaneous events there's bound to be a bit of overlap and I can accept that. But when either 1) There is an obvious and avoidable schedule conflict which concern interested parties or 2) The staff simply does not announce scheduling with reasonable notice...well that's the reason for this thread.
KRAKII wrote...
>(Now, yes, I realize that raffles on the whole tend to be pretty forgiving. Buy the ticket, walk on; remember to be logged in when they draw. But still.)
In my case, I would have needed to have my empath logged in at the same time as my main. I could have logged out my main but that's pretty insanely unprofessional and rude to people attending our event. Also considering they were in different geographic areas, I expect I was not the only one. I think at least one prominent empath showed up for ours in RR (but might have bought an empath raffle ticket before coming to RR); thanks for that Dirvy! (Aside: The winner of one of our raffles was busy getting a Dreavening in the Landing which kind of irked me so, just keep in mind for the future even if raffles are forgiving, sorcerers aren't always!)
>I'm not involved with any organization, and I find it hard to give credence that staff would have not even a general feel for "yeah, we're thinking the second versus the third weekend of February, for EventX."
I probably didn't use my phrasing accurately enough. Staff probably indeed had a 'ballpark estimate' for what week EG would run before players knew. But they actually have to know with certainty which week it will be before telling players. And they did not publicly announce it to players until after the CHE deadline for October. I still think with an event that likely takes 6 months of planning for many people, one should know what week it happens a couple months prior. People might not need 6 to 8 weeks notice to get time off of work, but players (if not GMs) do in fact take time off work for EG for example.
>If the CHE/MHO calendar requests are required to come in early by <some minimum time window> in order to get onto the calendar, a bare minimum of reciprocal courtesy should have the staff announcing NOT LESS THAN <some other time window> for their events.
It's the 3rd of the month before for CHEs. This CHE deadline ought to be reduced for calendar-only requests, otherwise we would lose 90% of the GM run events if such a rule were instated. Conversely, one might wonder how many more CHE events there would be if the rules were less strict...
Starchitin wrote...
>If anything, simple courtesy should have EVERYONE checking the calendar and scheduling their stuff around whatever's already there.
There's also a new CHE-specific calendar, so we can start trying to avoid conflicts with each other during the planning phases. So despite the poor situation, CHEs collectively are still working to improve the situation of conflicting events independent of the company.
MORENO wrote...
>Did you have an event planned around the raffle or was it just the raffle draw?
We had an event 15 minutes after our raffle, the raffles always being placed near events in an effort to push up event attendance. People have said our raffles are really good, but it's quantitatively verifiable ^_^. Overall we generally lose coins on raffles (the income does not support the value of the item). Some items are donated so the house doesn't need to care if it only gets 2.4m for a T5 ensorcell for instance. In any case, we consider the raffles as an investment to gain a reasonable attendance, and it seems to work.
I was trying to actually check how many event conflicts we had in the last 12-18 months to avoid any exaggeration, but the funny thing of course with the calendar being poorly used is one cannot even find clear evidence for many conflicts (without relying on the TownCrier or similar). SimuCon overlapped with Frontier Days this year; EG was announced too late, so we re-scheduled our event; there was the present raffle issue. I recall someone complained to me about some scheduling "over DR" but I've no idea when that was. There was a particularly memorable one, with Beacon Hall having an event in WL a bit over a year ago, and some RR festival being announced merely days in advance, covering almost the same time slot on the same day. (There are likely other conflicts between these timeframes I have neglected.)
So generally there have been two classes of overlaps I notice: odd/peculiar and large scale irresponsibility. If there were overlaps with some obscure event say in Ta'Vaalor for Elves while we're trying to kill and maim each other at Beacon Hall I didn't notice or care -- obviously with small or spontaneous events there's bound to be a bit of overlap and I can accept that. But when either 1) There is an obvious and avoidable schedule conflict which concern interested parties or 2) The staff simply does not announce scheduling with reasonable notice...well that's the reason for this thread.
KRAKII wrote...
>(Now, yes, I realize that raffles on the whole tend to be pretty forgiving. Buy the ticket, walk on; remember to be logged in when they draw. But still.)
In my case, I would have needed to have my empath logged in at the same time as my main. I could have logged out my main but that's pretty insanely unprofessional and rude to people attending our event. Also considering they were in different geographic areas, I expect I was not the only one. I think at least one prominent empath showed up for ours in RR (but might have bought an empath raffle ticket before coming to RR); thanks for that Dirvy! (Aside: The winner of one of our raffles was busy getting a Dreavening in the Landing which kind of irked me so, just keep in mind for the future even if raffles are forgiving, sorcerers aren't always!)
>I'm not involved with any organization, and I find it hard to give credence that staff would have not even a general feel for "yeah, we're thinking the second versus the third weekend of February, for EventX."
I probably didn't use my phrasing accurately enough. Staff probably indeed had a 'ballpark estimate' for what week EG would run before players knew. But they actually have to know with certainty which week it will be before telling players. And they did not publicly announce it to players until after the CHE deadline for October. I still think with an event that likely takes 6 months of planning for many people, one should know what week it happens a couple months prior. People might not need 6 to 8 weeks notice to get time off of work, but players (if not GMs) do in fact take time off work for EG for example.
>If the CHE/MHO calendar requests are required to come in early by <some minimum time window> in order to get onto the calendar, a bare minimum of reciprocal courtesy should have the staff announcing NOT LESS THAN <some other time window> for their events.
It's the 3rd of the month before for CHEs. This CHE deadline ought to be reduced for calendar-only requests, otherwise we would lose 90% of the GM run events if such a rule were instated. Conversely, one might wonder how many more CHE events there would be if the rules were less strict...
Starchitin wrote...
>If anything, simple courtesy should have EVERYONE checking the calendar and scheduling their stuff around whatever's already there.
There's also a new CHE-specific calendar, so we can start trying to avoid conflicts with each other during the planning phases. So despite the poor situation, CHEs collectively are still working to improve the situation of conflicting events independent of the company.
MORENO wrote...
>Did you have an event planned around the raffle or was it just the raffle draw?
We had an event 15 minutes after our raffle, the raffles always being placed near events in an effort to push up event attendance. People have said our raffles are really good, but it's quantitatively verifiable ^_^. Overall we generally lose coins on raffles (the income does not support the value of the item). Some items are donated so the house doesn't need to care if it only gets 2.4m for a T5 ensorcell for instance. In any case, we consider the raffles as an investment to gain a reasonable attendance, and it seems to work.
VEYTHORNE
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/29/2017 05:52 PM CST
Having multiple options is a good thing, even if you feel it may step on the toes of your specific event. Some people may not be interested in what you have to offer and would instead prefer option B.
JOEKUPS
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/29/2017 06:11 PM CST
I think the problem is the discrepancy between what an MHO/CHE can offer compared to a GM. It's not an apples to apples comparison in almost every case. Sadly, most players will go to what gives them the better benefit.
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
DAID
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/29/2017 06:35 PM CST
VEYTHORNE wrote ...
>Having multiple options is a good thing, even if you feel it may step on the toes of your specific event. Some people may not be interested in what you have to offer and would instead prefer option B.
Sure. This would be a pretty reasonable argument if the empath raffle wasn't the exact same minute as mine. Even with a 5 minute difference I could have logged in my alt. 5 minutes would still have been pretty dirty, but at least it might have suggested the GMs check the calendar.
>Having multiple options is a good thing, even if you feel it may step on the toes of your specific event. Some people may not be interested in what you have to offer and would instead prefer option B.
Sure. This would be a pretty reasonable argument if the empath raffle wasn't the exact same minute as mine. Even with a 5 minute difference I could have logged in my alt. 5 minutes would still have been pretty dirty, but at least it might have suggested the GMs check the calendar.
GS4-ELIDI
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/29/2017 07:20 PM CST
>>It's the 3rd of the month before for CHEs. This CHE deadline ought to be reduced for calendar-only requests, otherwise we would lose 90% of the GM run events if such a rule were instated. Conversely, one might wonder how many more CHE events there would be if the rules were less strict...
I can't tell you how many calendar entries I receive after the third of the month deadline, and sometimes up until the very day of an impromptu (or a I-forgot-to-request-a-calendar-post) event. I don't believe I've ever turned down a calendar posting, no matter how late it's been. I also work with Houses all the time on rescheduling calendar posted events - for any reason.
~Elidi~
I can't tell you how many calendar entries I receive after the third of the month deadline, and sometimes up until the very day of an impromptu (or a I-forgot-to-request-a-calendar-post) event. I don't believe I've ever turned down a calendar posting, no matter how late it's been. I also work with Houses all the time on rescheduling calendar posted events - for any reason.
~Elidi~
KRAKII
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/30/2017 09:26 AM CST
"I probably didn't use my phrasing accurately enough. Staff probably indeed had a 'ballpark estimate' for what week EG would run before players knew. But they actually have to know with certainty which week it will be before telling players. And they did not publicly announce it to players until after the CHE deadline for October. I still think with an event that likely takes 6 months of planning for many people, one should know what week it happens a couple months prior." -- Daid
My apologies, my statement was unclear: I was agreeing with YOU, and directing my admonishment towards staff.
Seriously, in May, I would think the GMs would have some feel for which weeks they're leaning towards for EG stuff, if nothing else because they're probably trying to book their OWN schedules far enough out to know.
And if they can't arrive at a firm schedule? Post both, marked "TENTATIVE PRIME WEEK1" and "TENTATIVE PRIME WEEK2".
How hard is it, once the decision HAS been made, to go in and delete one/confirm the other? By definition, SOMEbody is fiddling with the calendar on a regular basis...
.
.
Short version: play nice.
My apologies, my statement was unclear: I was agreeing with YOU, and directing my admonishment towards staff.
Seriously, in May, I would think the GMs would have some feel for which weeks they're leaning towards for EG stuff, if nothing else because they're probably trying to book their OWN schedules far enough out to know.
And if they can't arrive at a firm schedule? Post both, marked "TENTATIVE PRIME WEEK1" and "TENTATIVE PRIME WEEK2".
How hard is it, once the decision HAS been made, to go in and delete one/confirm the other? By definition, SOMEbody is fiddling with the calendar on a regular basis...
.
.
Short version: play nice.
DAID
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/30/2017 04:21 PM CST
I wrote...
>>It's the 3rd of the month before for CHEs. This CHE deadline ought to be reduced for calendar-only requests, otherwise we would lose 90% of the GM run events if such a rule were instated. Conversely, one might wonder how many more CHE events there would be if the rules were less strict...
GM Elidi responded...
>I can't tell you how many calendar entries I receive after the third of the month deadline, and sometimes up until the very day of an impromptu (or a I-forgot-to-request-a-calendar-post) event. I don't believe I've ever turned down a calendar posting, no matter how late it's been. I also work with Houses all the time on rescheduling calendar posted events - for any reason.
I am attempting to present the situation objectively, focusing on problems with the norms or rules. Also as part of a bad and ugly post, I am particularly conscious of the possibility to enter a nasty territory of flaming where the discussion becomes fruitless.
In that context, I would say that the CHE guru does a very good job, and this is known not only to me personally but other members of the CHE community I have talked to. I considered in all this mess, one should establish a basic level of sanity:
I don't want to overly defended the work which is required for the CHE guru or up/downplay certain aspects, since I am certainly not that person.
Yet my issue is not the difficulty of requesting a calendar change owing to an event stomping; when I saw the EG overlap with our planned event date, after some internal house discussions, I requested to move the date, and that was accepted and effectuated by the CHE guru. The apparent simplicity in getting the calendar changed, along with the demonstrated possibility for event planning 2 to 3 months in advance from some sectors of the CHE teams, shows the present calendar problems are not technical problems but cultural or procedural problems.
The CHE guru has been forgiving but should not have to be. I envision a more harmonious scheduling future. In this case, CHE events can be added to the calendar with a much shorter notice than is presently the letter of the law. However, this would be a trade for making CHE requests to be treated more strictly without exception circumstances; if we make reasonable deadlines, they should be firm owning to the careful consideration to draw them. We can make a common deadline, which is agreeable from an internal discussion by the present GM team. We would have a general idea to properly schedule events, and everyone would have the same deadline, and submissions would be uploaded closer to real-time.
I would like the rules and system to reasonably allow 2 to 4 week notice for CHE events to be counted for IP when they do not require further support.
>>It's the 3rd of the month before for CHEs. This CHE deadline ought to be reduced for calendar-only requests, otherwise we would lose 90% of the GM run events if such a rule were instated. Conversely, one might wonder how many more CHE events there would be if the rules were less strict...
GM Elidi responded...
>I can't tell you how many calendar entries I receive after the third of the month deadline, and sometimes up until the very day of an impromptu (or a I-forgot-to-request-a-calendar-post) event. I don't believe I've ever turned down a calendar posting, no matter how late it's been. I also work with Houses all the time on rescheduling calendar posted events - for any reason.
I am attempting to present the situation objectively, focusing on problems with the norms or rules. Also as part of a bad and ugly post, I am particularly conscious of the possibility to enter a nasty territory of flaming where the discussion becomes fruitless.
In that context, I would say that the CHE guru does a very good job, and this is known not only to me personally but other members of the CHE community I have talked to. I considered in all this mess, one should establish a basic level of sanity:
| 0th law of revised scheduling: GM-Elidi should not be required to work harder. |
I don't want to overly defended the work which is required for the CHE guru or up/downplay certain aspects, since I am certainly not that person.
Yet my issue is not the difficulty of requesting a calendar change owing to an event stomping; when I saw the EG overlap with our planned event date, after some internal house discussions, I requested to move the date, and that was accepted and effectuated by the CHE guru. The apparent simplicity in getting the calendar changed, along with the demonstrated possibility for event planning 2 to 3 months in advance from some sectors of the CHE teams, shows the present calendar problems are not technical problems but cultural or procedural problems.
The CHE guru has been forgiving but should not have to be. I envision a more harmonious scheduling future. In this case, CHE events can be added to the calendar with a much shorter notice than is presently the letter of the law. However, this would be a trade for making CHE requests to be treated more strictly without exception circumstances; if we make reasonable deadlines, they should be firm owning to the careful consideration to draw them. We can make a common deadline, which is agreeable from an internal discussion by the present GM team. We would have a general idea to properly schedule events, and everyone would have the same deadline, and submissions would be uploaded closer to real-time.
I would like the rules and system to reasonably allow 2 to 4 week notice for CHE events to be counted for IP when they do not require further support.
DAID
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/30/2017 04:24 PM CST
>I am attempting to present the situation objectively, focusing on problems with the norms or rules. Also as part of a bad and ugly post, I am particularly conscious of the possibility to enter a nasty territory of flaming where the discussion becomes fruitless.
By the way...sorry there was a tongue-in-cheek here. My 0th law goes on to name the CHE guru by name. That's because Elidi is amazing and has a fallout / peripheral relationship to the problem I describe in this thread. But I treated the response under the premise of not naming anyone and avoiding too much specificity...
By the way...sorry there was a tongue-in-cheek here. My 0th law goes on to name the CHE guru by name. That's because Elidi is amazing and has a fallout / peripheral relationship to the problem I describe in this thread. But I treated the response under the premise of not naming anyone and avoiding too much specificity...
GS4-ELIDI
Re: GMs and the Calendar
11/30/2017 08:25 PM CST
>>I would like the rules and system to reasonably allow 2 to 4 week notice for CHE events to be counted for IP when they do not require further support.
No matter what deadline we use, some people will push until the last minute of the last day and some people will still be habitually late. It makes sense that the calendar postings be requested with the rest of the support for a planned event. But if you don't need any other event support but a calendar posting, it's fine to ask for one at any time.
~Elidi~
No matter what deadline we use, some people will push until the last minute of the last day and some people will still be habitually late. It makes sense that the calendar postings be requested with the rest of the support for a planned event. But if you don't need any other event support but a calendar posting, it's fine to ask for one at any time.
~Elidi~
OM1E5GA
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/01/2017 01:33 AM CST
<No matter what deadline we use, some people will push until the last minute of the last day and some people will still be habitually late. It makes sense that the calendar postings be requested with the rest of the support for a planned event. But if you don't need any other event support but a calendar posting, it's fine to ask for one at any time.>
While this is a fair policy for what it is, I've yet to see anything that addresses two main points brought up by the OP:
1. Times for NIR events (up to in including paid events like EG) not being announced/calendared prior to the deadline for CHE events to be put on the calendar
2. NIR not checking the calendar to avoid conflicts when scheduling their events (I'm really hoping none are intentionally scheduling their stuff to conflict with CHE events despite the quote I previously responded to)
Any CHE events requiring support are still going to be negatively affected, with little those running CHEs can do but cross their fingers and hope no GM adds their item at the same time after it's too late. As much as GMs like reminding us they have lives outside GS, the same applies to players. Given that many CHE events involve multiple members being present to help run them, I can see it being a major headache to have to reschedule them.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
While this is a fair policy for what it is, I've yet to see anything that addresses two main points brought up by the OP:
1. Times for NIR events (up to in including paid events like EG) not being announced/calendared prior to the deadline for CHE events to be put on the calendar
2. NIR not checking the calendar to avoid conflicts when scheduling their events (I'm really hoping none are intentionally scheduling their stuff to conflict with CHE events despite the quote I previously responded to)
Any CHE events requiring support are still going to be negatively affected, with little those running CHEs can do but cross their fingers and hope no GM adds their item at the same time after it's too late. As much as GMs like reminding us they have lives outside GS, the same applies to players. Given that many CHE events involve multiple members being present to help run them, I can see it being a major headache to have to reschedule them.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GS4-ELIDI
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/01/2017 08:51 AM CST
>>While this is a fair policy for what it is, I've yet to see anything that addresses two main points brought up by the OP:
I recently discussed some of this issue here: http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Meeting%20Hall%20Organizations%20(MHOs)/General%20Discussion/view/1525
I can only speak for myself, but I try my best not to schedule or pop-up merchants when groups have things going on. If I want to RP during that time, I try to bring my NPC to the event being hosted by the players. It doesn't always work out. There can be things going on in all realms (whether calendared or not) at any given time and not every event is for everyone. I know from a player perspective as well as my current GM posting how much work the House members put into hosting an event and what it's like coordinating with your other officers or groups to make it happen. I'll continue to do my best to avoid scheduling conflicts, as well as being flexible with CHE calendar postings/rescheduling and allowing last minute crier announcements.
~Elidi~
I recently discussed some of this issue here: http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Meeting%20Hall%20Organizations%20(MHOs)/General%20Discussion/view/1525
I can only speak for myself, but I try my best not to schedule or pop-up merchants when groups have things going on. If I want to RP during that time, I try to bring my NPC to the event being hosted by the players. It doesn't always work out. There can be things going on in all realms (whether calendared or not) at any given time and not every event is for everyone. I know from a player perspective as well as my current GM posting how much work the House members put into hosting an event and what it's like coordinating with your other officers or groups to make it happen. I'll continue to do my best to avoid scheduling conflicts, as well as being flexible with CHE calendar postings/rescheduling and allowing last minute crier announcements.
~Elidi~
DAID
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/01/2017 05:04 PM CST
I wrote...
>>I would like the rules and system to reasonably allow 2 to 4 week notice for CHE events to be counted for IP when they do not require further support.
ELIDI wrote...
>No matter what deadline we use, some people will push until the last minute of the last day and some people will still be habitually late. It makes sense that the calendar postings be requested with the rest of the support for a planned event.
Although I wouldn't want to tread into unfamiliar domain, I'd have thought I fell under the category of being "habitually late", but then again this is how I show up 5 minutes later to real life meetings, or perhaps submit my event request support the day after. Usually I liked aiming for midnight UK time on the 3rd, but if that's my goal it can go wrong.
>But if you don't need any other event support but a calendar posting, it's fine to ask for one at any time.
This statement is a real 180 for me. Even considering that I believe myself to be habitually late, quite averse to following silly bureaucratic rules, etc, I still intend to follow the rules as long as I submit to a given system. I estimate 4/5 or 9/10 BHA events are just calendar requests, so the "if" is the rule rather than the exception for us.
Although I hate bylaws and detailed rules and other things, I would appreciate it -- after careful consideration and possibility to change you mind -- if you would make this a well-advertised aspect if you fully stand behind it. Although I've created this thread to vent and hopefully improve the situation, I would like to have a global improvement and not just a nice GM that helps me out when I ask (or complain loudly, as the case here).
>I recently discussed some of this issue here: ...
I only glanced at it, but this looks like a really nice thread. I apologize that I haven't been using the forums much this year. I will take a look at it in more detail tomorrow. Thank you.
Starchitin responded to Elidi...
>While this is a fair policy for what it is, I've yet to see anything that addresses two main points brought up by the OP:
I believe you are right in your assessment, but not necessarily fair in the sense that we have just the one NIR on this thread. Granted, if I was SGM or a person that messed up BHA calendar items, I wouldn't want to post either, and I'd ask the CHE guru to come in and respond, considering her immense experience dealing with CHE officers as well as being the likely one to suffer from any global changes that are more likely.
I would still like to see answers to your questions, but I would like them to be fielded by a more diverse NIR team. Elidi has kindly agreed to a demand (request?) I made. But this is, like you said, not the main issue. Though as Elidi has likely picked up, it might be the path of least resistance to turn down my volume for complaining :)
>>I would like the rules and system to reasonably allow 2 to 4 week notice for CHE events to be counted for IP when they do not require further support.
ELIDI wrote...
>No matter what deadline we use, some people will push until the last minute of the last day and some people will still be habitually late. It makes sense that the calendar postings be requested with the rest of the support for a planned event.
Although I wouldn't want to tread into unfamiliar domain, I'd have thought I fell under the category of being "habitually late", but then again this is how I show up 5 minutes later to real life meetings, or perhaps submit my event request support the day after. Usually I liked aiming for midnight UK time on the 3rd, but if that's my goal it can go wrong.
>But if you don't need any other event support but a calendar posting, it's fine to ask for one at any time.
This statement is a real 180 for me. Even considering that I believe myself to be habitually late, quite averse to following silly bureaucratic rules, etc, I still intend to follow the rules as long as I submit to a given system. I estimate 4/5 or 9/10 BHA events are just calendar requests, so the "if" is the rule rather than the exception for us.
Although I hate bylaws and detailed rules and other things, I would appreciate it -- after careful consideration and possibility to change you mind -- if you would make this a well-advertised aspect if you fully stand behind it. Although I've created this thread to vent and hopefully improve the situation, I would like to have a global improvement and not just a nice GM that helps me out when I ask (or complain loudly, as the case here).
>I recently discussed some of this issue here: ...
I only glanced at it, but this looks like a really nice thread. I apologize that I haven't been using the forums much this year. I will take a look at it in more detail tomorrow. Thank you.
Starchitin responded to Elidi...
>While this is a fair policy for what it is, I've yet to see anything that addresses two main points brought up by the OP:
I believe you are right in your assessment, but not necessarily fair in the sense that we have just the one NIR on this thread. Granted, if I was SGM or a person that messed up BHA calendar items, I wouldn't want to post either, and I'd ask the CHE guru to come in and respond, considering her immense experience dealing with CHE officers as well as being the likely one to suffer from any global changes that are more likely.
I would still like to see answers to your questions, but I would like them to be fielded by a more diverse NIR team. Elidi has kindly agreed to a demand (request?) I made. But this is, like you said, not the main issue. Though as Elidi has likely picked up, it might be the path of least resistance to turn down my volume for complaining :)
SIMU-WYROM
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/02/2017 07:18 PM CST
SGM Galene and I just spoke about a similar subject a week ago when it comes to the time line needed for CHE/MHO prep. Unfortunately, there are a lot of problems with the current setup that was put in place. One thing we've tried to overcome in the last 3 years is to modernize the game and offer less time constraints to both players and staff. MHO/CHE event policies are something we need to tackle in the near future.
The great thing about GemStone IV is we will support and allow player-run events as much as we can. But there are dozens of active MHOs/CHEs running events. It makes up the majority of our calendar these days. Look at today, for example. The majority of the evening is just player-run events. That's a big stretch of time. We also offer MHOs/CHEs a lot more tools and privileges nowadays like running raffles, having prize closets with scripted items, and around the clock support.
We also have over fifty staff members, with more than half being CE GMs. Those CE GMs have monthly projects that involve working with players in some capacity. Staff are not forced into a schedule due to their independent contractor status. They work on their own schedule, but we do try as hard as we can to avoid overlap. When it comes to overlap, we do ask GMs to try to schedule during our more congested population times. We also ask to try to start at either the top of the hour or within 30 minutes intervals. So in cases where a player raffle draws as the same time as a GM raffle, it will be a lot more common if it's at X:00 or X:30. GMs won't stagger things into X:05 or X:10.
As for pay events, dates and times are only tentative until about 30 days before they run. SGM Haliste and I plan to try to do better with that time table, but not all of it is within our control. Pay events are guaranteed the months of February, April, June, August, October, and December.
Like everything, nothing is perfect. We do as best as we can, as well as continually offer more.
Wyrom, PM
The great thing about GemStone IV is we will support and allow player-run events as much as we can. But there are dozens of active MHOs/CHEs running events. It makes up the majority of our calendar these days. Look at today, for example. The majority of the evening is just player-run events. That's a big stretch of time. We also offer MHOs/CHEs a lot more tools and privileges nowadays like running raffles, having prize closets with scripted items, and around the clock support.
We also have over fifty staff members, with more than half being CE GMs. Those CE GMs have monthly projects that involve working with players in some capacity. Staff are not forced into a schedule due to their independent contractor status. They work on their own schedule, but we do try as hard as we can to avoid overlap. When it comes to overlap, we do ask GMs to try to schedule during our more congested population times. We also ask to try to start at either the top of the hour or within 30 minutes intervals. So in cases where a player raffle draws as the same time as a GM raffle, it will be a lot more common if it's at X:00 or X:30. GMs won't stagger things into X:05 or X:10.
As for pay events, dates and times are only tentative until about 30 days before they run. SGM Haliste and I plan to try to do better with that time table, but not all of it is within our control. Pay events are guaranteed the months of February, April, June, August, October, and December.
Like everything, nothing is perfect. We do as best as we can, as well as continually offer more.
Wyrom, PM
VANKRASN39
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/03/2017 11:40 AM CST
another suggestion for modernizing: The two tickets for the Glaesen Star should be replaced with two (or more) Chronomage orbs
MAXMANJ
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/03/2017 10:15 PM CST
<< We also have over fifty staff members, with more than half being CE GMs. Those CE GMs have monthly projects that involve working with players in some capacity. Staff are not forced into a schedule due to their independent contractor status. They work on their own schedule, but we do try as hard as we can to avoid overlap. When it comes to overlap, we do ask GMs to try to schedule during our more congested population times. We also ask to try to start at either the top of the hour or within 30 minutes intervals. So in cases where a player raffle draws as the same time as a GM raffle, it will be a lot more common if it's at X:00 or X:30. GMs won't stagger things into X:05 or X:10. >>
If the GMs won't stagger draw times in anything other than X:00 or X:30, then can the house events be staggered like that? All they would have to do is set their event to go off at X:15 and there would never been a raffle issue like this again.
Josh
If the GMs won't stagger draw times in anything other than X:00 or X:30, then can the house events be staggered like that? All they would have to do is set their event to go off at X:15 and there would never been a raffle issue like this again.
Josh
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/03/2017 11:21 PM CST
Speaking for House White Haven. I'm not particularly interested in being restricted to quarter hour X:15 and X:45 start times for events or raffles. We schedule our events and raffles when it works best for the folks running the events and when (we hope) for our house members. Hopefully folks (players and GMs alike) are making a reasonable effort to not setup events on top of each other. Sometime this can't be avoided.
-- Robert aka Faulkil
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
-- Robert aka Faulkil
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
MAXMANJ
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/04/2017 12:04 AM CST
[quote]Speaking for House White Haven. I'm not particularly interested in being restricted to quarter hour X:15 and X:45 start times for events or raffles. We schedule our events and raffles when it works best for the folks running the events and when (we hope) for our house members. Hopefully folks (players and GMs alike) are making a reasonable effort to not setup events on top of each other. Sometime this can't be avoided.[/quote]
I wasn't suggesting that you be restricted to those times, only that if you could use those times that it would avoid the issue that initiated this thread. :)
Josh
I wasn't suggesting that you be restricted to those times, only that if you could use those times that it would avoid the issue that initiated this thread. :)
Josh
KRAKII
Re: GMs and the Calendar
12/04/2017 08:51 AM CST
Exactly; I had the same takeaway as Josh.
You can schedule your raffle in the knowledge of what your target audience is:
Are you trying to draw in the biggest absolute number of participants possible (do on the quarter or three-quarter hour)?
Or are you trying to get the people who actually have some tie to the event--like you're raffling a bow, you want "archers" involved--so you schedule it when there MAY be a GM event to conflict with (on the hour or the half-hour)?
.
Now that you are armed with the knowledge of how the GMs schedule their timing, you can make your decision with deliberation.
You can schedule your raffle in the knowledge of what your target audience is:
Are you trying to draw in the biggest absolute number of participants possible (do on the quarter or three-quarter hour)?
Or are you trying to get the people who actually have some tie to the event--like you're raffling a bow, you want "archers" involved--so you schedule it when there MAY be a GM event to conflict with (on the hour or the half-hour)?
.
Now that you are armed with the knowledge of how the GMs schedule their timing, you can make your decision with deliberation.
