Not so much a complaint as a request. If GMs are working, and decide to lock a room, PLEASE understand that some folks have spotty internet connections and get logged out. PLEASE allow these folks to REPORT to let you know they got logged out and would like back in the room. It is so disheartening, for example to be 3 spaces away from winning a GHOUL game, or be 4th in line for a merchant service, and not be able to get back when you lose connection through absolutely no fault of your own. I know GMs running events and games have a reason for doing things the way they do them, but please please please consider sometimes its beyond the control of the player. And if they REPORT they were there, and you have them on your list or they have a GHOUL card marked several times, please consider bringing them back in.
ROBERTSM8
ROBERTSM8
Re: Locking Rooms
10/28/2017 10:19 PM CDT
I'll follow this up with, for tonight's example, that Two people who got logged out on one game of GHOUL were never allowed reentry. The very next game, it was witnessed by...100+ people? That two characters were allowed back in. And there are logs to support That happening.
GS4-KAIKALA
Re: Locking Rooms
10/29/2017 03:46 AM CDT
>>Not so much a complaint as a request. If GMs are working, and decide to lock a room, PLEASE understand that some folks have spotty internet connections and get logged out. PLEASE allow these folks to REPORT to let you know they got logged out and would like back in the room.
>>I'll follow this up with, for tonight's example, that Two people who got logged out on one game of GHOUL were never allowed reentry. The very next game, it was witnessed by...100+ people? That two characters were allowed back in. And there are logs to support That happening.
That second post turned the request that wasn't a complaint... into a complaint. Not to mention that word gets around. I'm going to respond here and elaborate a whole lot more on what I'd explained to you, since it's clearly needed:
When we're talking about games, a huge part of fairness is ensuring that the people who win are entirely above board in their gameplay. For GHOUL -- if I cannot see the cards constantly in someone's hands -- i.e. there's a break in my seeing what they're doing to the cards while they're logged into the game (or they put a card in a container during gameplay and remove a card from the same container that is holding multiple cards) -- I have zero way of verifying that something hasn't happened with those cards or that it's not the same card as was being played earlier. Whether or not I trust said people is irrelevant; if I can't see it, it's out.
The two people in question. They did not disconnect or log out. What happened with them: (1) Goblyn had not announced during that game when the door got locked; I'd locked it perhaps 60 second before those 2 folks walked out. I definitely consider them not realizing the door was locked my fault. All of the other games, Goblyn clearly stated the door was locked right after locking it. (2) We were also right in the middle of interaction (the walking out was to retrieve an item in response to something Goblyn had said). (3) Fortunately, I had a window on the courtyard right then (totally unrelated to this) -- so I was able to immediately look over and see what was up with their cards. i.e. I had eyes on their cards 100% of the time those cards were not in the Ghoul room -- I could show, if I was asked, that their gameplay was above board there. (4) Way too much information? Eh, maybe this helps see what was going on from my POV. Would it have been fair to those two players to leave them out there when taking all of that into consideration?
Is that situation actually comparable to disconnects?
Let's talk about disconnects during Ghoul. Certainly I am not keeping tabs of who's logging out of the Ghoul room (that would be insane). During Ghoul, there is nothing I can do or say to prevent people from accidentally disco'ing, nor are my interactions going to cause their accidental disco. People who log out in the Ghoul room will get logged back in in the courtyard -- it prevents cheating between games and such, but as a result, I can't see what they're doing with their cards in the time between their re-login and when they can potentially get pulled back over to Ghoul -- i.e. there's a space of time in which I can't verify what's up with their cards. Comparing accidental discos with the very specific situation of those two folks in question is comparing apples to oranges.
However, after your question to me about fairness, I left a window on the courtyard so that if people did log out and immediately log back in, I could see what's up with their cards. Most people were great -- just logging in and hanging out (and one asked to be brought back into the room, so I grabbed them). I also watched someone who had just logged out proceed to log back in and then daub a few spaces on their card. Which circles back to: if I hadn't seen it, I'd have no way of knowing.
That brings me to: if you see a problem with how something is handled -- I do want to know. I think any GM should want to know. I mean, obviously I want things to be as fair as possible -- I try really, really hard to make that happen for people. However, there's usually an appropriate time/place for that feedback -- right in the middle of a 100+ person game, where people are waiting on me to progress, generally isn't ideal. Your question to me, and how you couched it, definitely threw me off and then some. But it also wasn't a question I could ignore, which is why I did take some time to answer it right then.
Will I continue to watch the discos during Sunday's games so that I'm taking your request here on the forums into consideration? I'm not sure -- after running the entirety of Game #7 this way: I don't think splitting my attention to watch disconnects log back into the courtyard and track their card activities until (if) they report was a great use of my attention, since it definitely took away from interacting with folks who were in the Ghoul room. If it avoids more veiled favoritism accusations being lobbed about, I'm more likely to of course, but I'm not a big fan of this being the reason I have to do that.
Hopefully allll of the above helps clarify the difficulty there is with ensuring Ghoul cards in their current form are legit, the difficulty with ensuring disco'd peoples cards are legit upon their return, and why disco's are super different from what happened with those two folks you brought up.
FWIW, I have some thoughts on how to have the game automatically do all this so that we don't ever have to lock the door, but it's not my game to code-fiddle with; I will definitely forward the thoughts along, though.
~Kaikala
From nearby, you hear Ordim yell, "Dont eat meeeeee!"
The shaggy mutt sniffs at a vine-painted mistwood keg, then grabs it in its teeth and greedily wolfs it down before anyone can grab it!
>>I'll follow this up with, for tonight's example, that Two people who got logged out on one game of GHOUL were never allowed reentry. The very next game, it was witnessed by...100+ people? That two characters were allowed back in. And there are logs to support That happening.
That second post turned the request that wasn't a complaint... into a complaint. Not to mention that word gets around. I'm going to respond here and elaborate a whole lot more on what I'd explained to you, since it's clearly needed:
When we're talking about games, a huge part of fairness is ensuring that the people who win are entirely above board in their gameplay. For GHOUL -- if I cannot see the cards constantly in someone's hands -- i.e. there's a break in my seeing what they're doing to the cards while they're logged into the game (or they put a card in a container during gameplay and remove a card from the same container that is holding multiple cards) -- I have zero way of verifying that something hasn't happened with those cards or that it's not the same card as was being played earlier. Whether or not I trust said people is irrelevant; if I can't see it, it's out.
The two people in question. They did not disconnect or log out. What happened with them: (1) Goblyn had not announced during that game when the door got locked; I'd locked it perhaps 60 second before those 2 folks walked out. I definitely consider them not realizing the door was locked my fault. All of the other games, Goblyn clearly stated the door was locked right after locking it. (2) We were also right in the middle of interaction (the walking out was to retrieve an item in response to something Goblyn had said). (3) Fortunately, I had a window on the courtyard right then (totally unrelated to this) -- so I was able to immediately look over and see what was up with their cards. i.e. I had eyes on their cards 100% of the time those cards were not in the Ghoul room -- I could show, if I was asked, that their gameplay was above board there. (4) Way too much information? Eh, maybe this helps see what was going on from my POV. Would it have been fair to those two players to leave them out there when taking all of that into consideration?
Is that situation actually comparable to disconnects?
Let's talk about disconnects during Ghoul. Certainly I am not keeping tabs of who's logging out of the Ghoul room (that would be insane). During Ghoul, there is nothing I can do or say to prevent people from accidentally disco'ing, nor are my interactions going to cause their accidental disco. People who log out in the Ghoul room will get logged back in in the courtyard -- it prevents cheating between games and such, but as a result, I can't see what they're doing with their cards in the time between their re-login and when they can potentially get pulled back over to Ghoul -- i.e. there's a space of time in which I can't verify what's up with their cards. Comparing accidental discos with the very specific situation of those two folks in question is comparing apples to oranges.
However, after your question to me about fairness, I left a window on the courtyard so that if people did log out and immediately log back in, I could see what's up with their cards. Most people were great -- just logging in and hanging out (and one asked to be brought back into the room, so I grabbed them). I also watched someone who had just logged out proceed to log back in and then daub a few spaces on their card. Which circles back to: if I hadn't seen it, I'd have no way of knowing.
That brings me to: if you see a problem with how something is handled -- I do want to know. I think any GM should want to know. I mean, obviously I want things to be as fair as possible -- I try really, really hard to make that happen for people. However, there's usually an appropriate time/place for that feedback -- right in the middle of a 100+ person game, where people are waiting on me to progress, generally isn't ideal. Your question to me, and how you couched it, definitely threw me off and then some. But it also wasn't a question I could ignore, which is why I did take some time to answer it right then.
Will I continue to watch the discos during Sunday's games so that I'm taking your request here on the forums into consideration? I'm not sure -- after running the entirety of Game #7 this way: I don't think splitting my attention to watch disconnects log back into the courtyard and track their card activities until (if) they report was a great use of my attention, since it definitely took away from interacting with folks who were in the Ghoul room. If it avoids more veiled favoritism accusations being lobbed about, I'm more likely to of course, but I'm not a big fan of this being the reason I have to do that.
Hopefully allll of the above helps clarify the difficulty there is with ensuring Ghoul cards in their current form are legit, the difficulty with ensuring disco'd peoples cards are legit upon their return, and why disco's are super different from what happened with those two folks you brought up.
FWIW, I have some thoughts on how to have the game automatically do all this so that we don't ever have to lock the door, but it's not my game to code-fiddle with; I will definitely forward the thoughts along, though.
~Kaikala
From nearby, you hear Ordim yell, "Dont eat meeeeee!"
The shaggy mutt sniffs at a vine-painted mistwood keg, then grabs it in its teeth and greedily wolfs it down before anyone can grab it!
EREK
Re: Locking Rooms
10/29/2017 06:25 PM CDT
I've got a ton of ideas to improve card security. Will code for WL player shop. :D
