spectral triton defenders 07/30/2016 07:31 PM CDT
Please fix them so they can be animated again.

Thank you.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 07/31/2016 03:08 AM CDT
Non-corporeal creatures were never meant to be animates, 730 had a broken check within it that was allowing certain ones (like the defenders) to slip through unintentionally. This bug was discovered and patched the other day.

That being said, what is it about the defenders that made them valuable animates? I'm not averse to finding some way to ameliorate the potential loss here.

Coase
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 07/31/2016 09:16 AM CDT
The change to disallow all levels of non-corpreal animates is a sad change. As for value, that's nearly half (need evidence) of all possible animates at cap because almost all undead are non-corpreal at cap. The thing about 'animate' dead was that you aren't raising the dead or making zombies, you are only pulling the strings on a preserved target. It's always been quite difficult to get a non-corpreal to animate due to the quick vanish time when components are used as well. I don't see what can be 'added' to make up for the loss of valuable animate friendly targets.

Additionally, from a new change, animates can no longer stack that 1 or 2 spells that they know on a sorcerer, but may simply 'refresh' them, which whittles down their usefulness from another side.

I'm not saying animate dead is underpowered or needs to be 'fixed', but these 2 recent changes have had a significant impact on users of the spell.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 07/31/2016 12:11 PM CDT

>Non-corporeal creatures were never meant to be animates, 730 had a broken check within it that was allowing certain ones (like the defenders) to slip through unintentionally. This bug was discovered and patched the other day.

>That being said, what is it about the defenders that made them valuable animates? I'm not averse to finding some way to ameliorate the potential loss here.

First, this "fix" should have been posted about so people are not out there in Nelemar wasting crystals. Believe it or not, some people actually use the spell.

Are defenders truly non-corp as they get injuries that heal more like trolls but faster? Can we make them fully corp instead of taking them away as an animate option? They are similar to combatants, but I prefer the bullrush to tackle, and their horn is more much powerful and quite awesome when it goes off at the right time. Also, they've been my hunting partners for over 2 years.

An animated spectral triton defender draws forth a silver-spined dextral conch shell and brings it to his bulbous lips. The shell blasts forth with a deep, rumbling bellow, causing the water to rapidly well up around the defender!
The rippling barrier of water explodes forth and expands outward from an animated spectral triton defender.
A triton magus is buffeted by the cresting waves of water and is knocked to the ground.
... 70 points of damage!
Strike to chest causes a large gaping hole!
The triton magus gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.
{spells fall)
A triton executioner is buffeted by the cresting waves of water.
... 70 points of damage!
Strike to chest causes a large gaping hole!
The triton executioner gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on his face.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 07/31/2016 03:46 PM CDT
The defenders are indeed truly fully non-corporeal: their wound system is entirely non-corp and quite unlike trolls. Their ability set is also identical to the combatants (both Bullrush, neither Tackle) and both have the Horn Blast ability at the exact same power level.

Again, I'm not adverse to making improvements to Animate Dead. Alongside the mentioned spell change (which was made because we made animates a -lot- more friendly to use), we made quite a few improvements to the usability of the spell last summer and if further improvements are necessary, I'm quite willing to push forward on them. However, non-corporeal undead were never meant to be animates, they don't have physical bodies to preserve/animate, they skip the intended wound mechanics, and the vast majority were never modified to work properly under the spell. I am very sorry that this bug existed for quite some time and, again, I'm completely willing to look into other options for capped animates, but the bug really did need to be fixed.

Coase
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 07/31/2016 04:42 PM CDT


>both have the Horn Blast ability at the exact same power level.

I've never been killed or given more than RT by a combatant horn. I have been killed by a non-animate defender horn.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 07/31/2016 06:25 PM CDT



>but the bug really did need to be fixed.

only like 3 of us use the spell, what was the urgency? I honestly do not comprehend how this needed fixing before wizard releases or other issues with the spell.

How about fixing instead the prepping of spells by magical animates only to have them swing 10 seconds later? This is on a magus I used last night to fairly poor results. Or how about fixing the hurling issue as they are still doing that?
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 07/31/2016 11:03 PM CDT
In lieu of being able to raise non-corpreal undead, casting animate dead on not-yet-killed-non-corpreal-undead (*yahztee!) will have the following effect....


(FILL IN THIS REGION)

Thanks!
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/01/2016 11:52 AM CDT
In addition to animates hurling and previous issues mentioned, animate's will coup and scare themselves, animates will bardsong and help monsters (see below) and not grouped sorcerer, animates (radicals) can cast other group spells (clerical in nature) helping monsters, animates no longer spell up for more than a 'refresh' duration, cannot confirm but some flares (bless?) won't work for animates. The reason one would like a defender (ghost-type) animate is to attack other ghost types (see sonic weapon!)


An animated grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
An animated grizzled siren chants hypnotically, swaying her body in rhythm!
As an animated grizzled siren sings, a brief squall of wind swirls around her.
A brief squall of wind swirls about the rest of her group. (not me!)
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/01/2016 11:54 AM CDT


>cannot confirm but some flares (bless?) won't work for animates

holy water flares from clerical blesses do work for animates
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/01/2016 12:01 PM CDT
Also this;

An animated grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
An animated grizzled siren chants hypnotically, swaying her body in rhythm!
CS: +453 - TD: +367 + CvA: -30 + d100: +71 - -5 == +132
Warding failed!
Something is pulling at you.
CS: +453 - TD: +472 + CvA: -2 + d100: +65 - -5 == +49
Warded off!
Rolfard is unaffected.
!J>join rolf
You are already a member of Rolfard's group.


And lot some player spells still target grouped animates, like song of disruption, new boil earth, etc
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/01/2016 03:48 PM CDT
* and animated bard creatures attacking their sorcerer

I understand, bugs have to be fixed...but on the priority list? I can easily redirect posts on the numerous bugs negatively effecting the spell (and balance) that are still waiting to be addressed, and then out of nowhere, a useful tool is 'fixed' and the spell is made less-off. I appreciate the consideration being made that something may be augmented after this 'fix' and will try to be as helpful as possible too.

BELOW ANIMATE ATTACKING ME


>tell ani to att wiz

...

An animated grizzled siren focuses a soothing melody towards a Grimswarm orc wizard!
CS: +458 - TD: +386 + CvA: +11 + d100: +25 == +108
Warding failed!
A calm washes over a Grimswarm orc wizard.

...

>kill wizard

...

a short while later

...

A roughed-up giantman official just came through the captive's hut, following you.
>

Small pieces of volcanic ash and soot drift slowly down from the sky.

>
An animated grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
An animated grizzled siren chants hypnotically, swaying her body in rhythm!
CS: +453 - TD: +452 + CvA: +4 + d100: +59 - -5 == +69
Warded off!
You are unaffected.
>stance def
You are now in a defensive stance.
>eye
You do not currently have a target.
>
An animated grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
>tel ani to stop
Your animate stops what it was doing.
>
An animated grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
An animated grizzled siren chants hypnotically, swaying her body in rhythm!
As an animated grizzled siren sings, a brief squall of wind swirls around her.
A brief squall of wind swirls about the rest of her group.
>
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/01/2016 06:39 PM CDT
Animated bard casting at target formally engaged (not present in the room current), this happens with many of the casting types of animates.

[Ghorsa Isle, Under The Bridge]
It is cool and dark under the bridge, and the rushing river drowns out the sounds of the city above. Something twitches in the darkness, where the bare earth meets the stone. Off to one side, a small group of grimy, shabbily-dressed dwarves sits in a circle, mumbling quietly at one another. You also see an animated grizzled siren, a chunky ash grey rock mouse and the black Kirackus disk.
Also here: Someone who is sitting, Someone Else
Obvious paths: up
>
An animated grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
>
An animated grizzled siren looks around blankly.
An animated grizzled siren focuses a soothing melody towards a Grimswarm orc ranger!
The orc ranger is unaffected.

>There's no ranger here!
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/02/2016 01:10 PM CDT
VANKRASN39
How about fixing instead the prepping of spells by magical animates only to have them swing 10 seconds later? This is on a magus I used last night to fairly poor results.


Can you post a log of that? Was it against an Ithzir? I just found a fixed a bug for this situation if Ithzir is the target (your log would potentially look like the below example - the "placing of one hand on top of the other" is the magus actually casting the spell, but it never went off, then it did a physical attack shortly after that).

An animated triton magus acknowledges your order to attack.
>
An animated triton magus makes a subtle gesture, drawing traces of faint blue-green light into its webbed hands.
>
An animated triton magus places one hand on top of the other, crossing its palms toward an Ithzir janissary!
>
An animated triton magus claws at an Ithzir janissary!

ROLFARD
In addition to animates hurling and previous issues mentioned, animate's will coup and scare themselves.


Coase just fixed this, along with causing it to inspiring the animate's master.

ROLFARD
animates will bardsong and help monsters (see below) and not grouped sorcerer, animates (radicals) can cast other group spells (clerical in nature) helping monsters
An animated grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
An animated grizzled siren chants hypnotically, swaying her body in rhythm!
As an animated grizzled siren sings, a brief squall of wind swirls around her.
A brief squall of wind swirls about the rest of her group. (not me!)


This has currently been fixed for Song of Tonis (1035). I'll look into the other bard and cleric spells.

ROLFARD
animates no longer spell up for more than a 'refresh' duration


That's not a bug. That was an announced change that was implemented with the other 730 updates that were made last year.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/02/2016 01:16 PM CDT


>Can you post a log of that? Was it against an Ithzir?

no, I've been hunting in Nelemar almost exclusively, it was a continuous issue throughout the 3 or so hours I had the animate. I can send logs later tonight
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/02/2016 01:42 PM CDT
VANKRASN39
Or how about fixing the hurling issue as they are still doing that?


Animates should no longer throw a melee weapon. If you see it happen again, let me know.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/02/2016 03:37 PM CDT
ROLFARD
Animated bard casting at target formally engaged (not present in the room current), this happens with many of the casting types of animates.
[Ghorsa Isle, Under The Bridge]
It is cool and dark under the bridge, and the rushing river drowns out the sounds of the city above. Something twitches in the darkness, where the bare earth meets the stone. Off to one side, a small group of grimy, shabbily-dressed dwarves sits in a circle, mumbling quietly at one another. You also see an animated grizzled siren, a chunky ash grey rock mouse and the black Kirackus disk.
Also here: Someone who is sitting, Someone Else
Obvious paths: up
>
An animated grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
>
An animated grizzled siren looks around blankly.
An animated grizzled siren focuses a soothing melody towards a Grimswarm orc ranger!
The orc ranger is unaffected.
>There's no ranger here!


Animates should no longer attack targets that are not in the same room.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/02/2016 03:40 PM CDT


thanks for addressing these issues :)
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/02/2016 07:46 PM CDT
Thanks for all the fixes!
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/03/2016 12:23 AM CDT
Again I am grateful for the attention but I recalled the past following moments, If the following could please be checked;

Boil earth wizards in same group as sorcerers targetting animates:
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerous%20Lore%20-%20Necromancy/view/502

Don't know if sympathy (or other empath spells) was adjusted:
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerous%20Lore%20-%20Necromancy/view/497

Recently a cleric? I think said his spell that makes everything kneel because it sins was 'blocked' by my arms

Or animates casting open implode and killing the sorcerer:
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerous%20Lore%20-%20Necromancy/view/495


Also in Fhorian Village there are some rooms where my animate gets hung up, for example;
[Teras Isle, Sumendar Road]
A broad road, deeply cut from the passage of heavily laden carts and wagons, makes its way through the overgrown forest to the northeast. The dense foliage allows no light to pass, leaving the forest in total darkness.
Obvious paths: northeast, southeast, west

And if I type west my animate does not follow, in group.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/04/2016 03:53 PM CDT
ROLFARD
Again I am grateful for the attention but I recalled the past following moments, If the following could please be checked;
Boil earth wizards in same group as sorcerers targetting animates:
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerous%20Lore%20-%20Necromancy/view/502
Don't know if sympathy (or other empath spells) was adjusted:
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerous%20Lore%20-%20Necromancy/view/497
Recently a cleric? I think said his spell that makes everything kneel because it sins was 'blocked' by my arms
Or animates casting open implode and killing the sorcerer:
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerous%20Lore%20-%20Necromancy/view/495


Censure (316), Implosion (720), Boil Earth (917), Song of Disruption (1030), and Sympathy (1120) should now all play nice with animates.

ROLFARD
Also in Fhorian Village there are some rooms where my animate gets hung up, for example;
[Teras Isle, Sumendar Road]
A broad road, deeply cut from the passage of heavily laden carts and wagons, makes its way through the overgrown forest to the northeast. The dense foliage allows no light to pass, leaving the forest in total darkness.
Obvious paths: northeast, southeast, west
And if I type west my animate does not follow, in group.


If you go into the new room, then tell manually tell it to follow you, does it show up then? No pet will follow a caster into rooms where they are prohibited.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/05/2016 07:59 AM CDT
My demon likes this room but my animate refused to enter from either direction, automatically nor manually. What is it about that room? It's not sancted

[Teras Isle, Sumendar Road]
A broad road, deeply cut from the passage of heavily laden carts and wagons, makes its way through the overgrown forest to the northeast. The dense foliage allows no light to pass, leaving the forest in total darkness.
Obvious paths: northeast, southeast, west
Your dingy blue abyran'sa and your Ilvari sprite followed.
>w
[Teras Isle, Fhorian Village]
Looking into the darkness of the dense forest that surrounds the village, it is easy to imagine that you can sense small, malicious eyes peering back at you. Or is that just imagination? You also see a small stone shed and a cottage.
Obvious paths: east, south, west
Your dingy blue abyran'sa followed.
Falling behind, your Ilvari sprite refuses to follow.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/06/2016 12:06 AM CDT
ROLFARD
My demon likes this room but my animate refused to enter from either direction, automatically nor manually. What is it about that room? It's not sancted


Can you BUG while standing in that room ([Teras Isle, Sumendar Road])? It'll help me find it, then I can check to see why the animate won't follow.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/06/2016 05:24 PM CDT
Done!
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/07/2016 06:23 PM CDT
Next, can we please have sympathy (1120) work properly with grasp of grave? It's only semi-related as it's a necromantic spell, but all the 'fix' action seems to be popping up in this thread ;)

Thanks!

Rolf
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/07/2016 06:52 PM CDT
I can definitely look into 709 issues - do you recall what the problem is offhand, or have a log of it?

Ixix
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/08/2016 07:20 AM CDT
Sure, 1120 makes 709 unable to target monsters, but ewave and bolt flare ups still hit sympathetic monsters.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/08/2016 08:14 AM CDT
ROLFARD
Sure, 1120 makes 709 unable to target monsters, but ewave and bolt flare ups still hit sympathetic monsters.


If any fix were to be made, it would be the other way around. Currently, sympathetic (1120) creatures are considered part of the empath's group (they're fighting for the caster). Any AoE abilities that are from the caster or their group that still affect said targets is technically a bug. I've been considering changing that, but it's not high on my list.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/08/2016 03:01 PM CDT
GameMaster Estild
Can you BUG while standing in that room ([Teras Isle, Sumendar Road])? It'll help me find it, then I can check to see why the animate won't follow.


ROLFARD
Done!


I didn't see this come through. If you used the Point & Click interface, you may need to manually type it in, as the prompt after you submit tells you that have to confirm it, so you have to copy and paste the entry again. You can just manually enter this twice while standing in the room: "BUG room;Animate Won't Follow;My animate won't follow me into the room west of here."

In other news, Song of Holding (1001) should now play nicely with animates (i.e. when cast by the animate, it shouldn't affect the sorcerer). I was going to look into the issue with Benediction (307) and Warding Sphere (310), but due to the other recent changes to cleric and paladin group spells, I need to hold off on updating those two.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/08/2016 04:40 PM CDT
Neat, Thanks!

Additionally I have physically entered what you asked me to do, bugging the room EAST of where the problem is.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/08/2016 06:03 PM CDT
Rolfard
Additionally I have physically entered what you asked me to do, bugging the room EAST of where the problem is.


Thanks. That room (and the altar in the same area) should now allow animates (and all creatures).

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/10/2016 10:30 AM CDT
NEW animate bugs at the Sea of Fire!

An animated lithe veiled sentinel
A knife of green-lit shadows materializes in an animated lithe veiled sentinel's hand and she slams it toward your chest in a vicious attack! Just in a time, the light of your periapt flares into a blinding phosphorescent sphere around you, blocking the attack!

Animated Shapers will summon snakes which attack the sorcerer!

Animated Shapers/Lunatics will raise lurks from dead PC's which will kill other PC's in a lurk domino effect (intended?)
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/10/2016 11:38 AM CDT
This is an issue that needs to be addressed with those specific creatures, so it'll be best if you post this in the Sanctum of Scale's release thread so the appropriate party can look into it.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/14/2016 09:55 PM CDT
Sweet! Glad to see this when I got back from my trip today;

An animated siren begins singing a sweet song.
An animated siren chants hypnotically, swaying her body in rhythm!
As an animated siren sings, a squall of wind briefly swirls around you.
You feel yourself moving a bit more smoothly and quickly than before!
>sea
>
You don't find anything of interest here.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Roundtime changed to 2 seconds.

So, by this I must wonder, were sirens not given .5x air lore (50 ranks and at 30 ranks would give -2 RT) because of a particular reason?
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 08/16/2016 06:58 PM CDT
Not sure if this is familiar related or the update that changed animates hurling weapons but here you see my mage hunting a combatant. It doesn't show the hurl, but it shows the combatants weapon flying from it's hands and sailing past my familiar. The next action the combatant did was claw at me.


A triton combatant thrusts with an oak-shafted silvery blue trident at you!
AS: +430 vs DS: +711 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +87 = -164
A clean miss.
>
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Hurl Boulder...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a triton combatant.
You hurl a large boulder at a triton combatant!
AS: +490 vs DS: +300 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +97 = +309
... and hit for 113 points of damage!
Good blow to chest!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.
>
Momentum carries an oak-shafted silvery blue trident past a large mountain chameleon to land nearby.
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 09/02/2016 10:02 AM CDT
Seems some changes made monster's group spells too friendly. Not that i'm upset but now a non-animated, ungrouped grizzled siren is applying Song of Tonis to me. That's swell!

A grizzled siren begins singing a sweet song.
A grizzled siren chants hypnotically, swaying her body in rhythm!
As a grizzled siren sings, a squall of wind briefly swirls around you.
You feel yourself moving a bit more smoothly and quickly than before!
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 09/02/2016 11:32 AM CDT
ROLFARD
Seems some changes made monster's group spells too friendly. Not that i'm upset but now a non-animated, ungrouped grizzled siren is applying Song of Tonis to me. That's swell!


This should be fixed. Thanks for reporting the issue.

GameMaster Estild
Reply
Re: spectral triton defenders 09/10/2016 09:11 PM CDT
Randomly an animate I have (after logging out and back in) will suddenly;

>
An animated Grimswarm orc fighter thrusts with a lance at a Sheruvian monk!
AS: +496 vs DS: +265 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +49 = +315
... and hits for 186 points of damage!
Strike punctures thigh and shatters femur!
A Sheruvian monk screams and falls to the ground grasping its mangled left leg!
The Sheruvian monk is stunned!
The ethereal necrotic film covering an animated Grimswarm orc fighter's lance shrivels away.


You cannot temp ensorcell a crumbly weapon. Nor did I attempt to temp ensorcell this weapon. But upon login, it would appear that my animate suddenly gains an temp ensorcell on their crumbly lance.
Reply