Hello Empaths!
I'm new to the game. Well, I guess technically returning after 20 years? Essentially new. I've spent the past month reading guides and asking questions and poking around, but I was hoping to get some more specialized advice here. My main goal is to be a brutal caster in combat, while still retaining decent healing (though I could be talked into other builds, especially if it's very useful to have strong healing ability in group combat). Of some note, my main friend and hunting partner is a sorcerer.
Race: Dark Elf Level: 14
Strength (STR): 89 (19)
Constitution (CON): 66 (3)
Dexterity (DEX): 77 (23)
Agility (AGI): 77 (18)
Discipline (DIS): 73 (1)
Aura (AUR): 77 (23)
Logic (LOG): 69 (9)
Intuition (INT): 57 (8)
Wisdom (WIS): 62 (11)
Influence (INF): 69 (4)
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 108 26
Spell Aiming.......................| 114 28
Harness Power......................| 78 17
Spirit Mana Control................| 66 14
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 66 14
Perception.........................| 66 14
Climbing...........................| 66 14
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 114 28
Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 9
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 3
Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 26
Stats. I plugged them into a calculator to get most of them to the exact point where they'll cap at max level (except CON and INT). I don't know if this is really the right thing to do, but I am stubborn about the idea of trying to pick the best I can now and not relying on a potion to fix them later. So far I actually have not felt hindered at all, so maybe it'll work?
Spell Aiming. To spell aim or not to spell aim? The guides I read (the two on the wiki) seemed to contradict here. One suggested that being a pure warding caster is more deadly, and the other advocated for both warding and spell aiming. So far I am enjoying having the option to switch to aimed 1700 when things are stunned or when I want to be sure to get at least a little damage in, since it seems easier to hit with but does much less damage. Later on I was hoping to try out things like Fire Spirit and Empathic Assault and the web thing, and in general I like the idea of options. But I'd also like to know if I'd be more deadly and effective with pure warding.
MIU and Arcane Symbols. The guides recommend both of these, I think because they are cheap runestaff defense. But so far I have no idea what actual good wands and scrolls could do me. Don't wands have very few charges overall, meaning I'd have to carry a lot? What do scrolls even do?
Transformation Lore. I am of course tempted by faster healing times. Is this worth it if I still want to focus on combat? Perhaps I could lose a little CS for faster heals. Or maybe carry an herb kit?
Other Lores. It's hard to remember all the things the various lores do. Summoning looked like an easy pick but I'd really like to know people's recommendations.
Physical Fitness. I started out at 2x but am feeling pretty comfortable now, so I thought I might let it dip to 1x. Will I be okay with that?
Survival. I enjoy Icemule so maybe I should try Survival? Although so far the winds and such haven't done anything I couldn't easily heal.
Harness. I feel very mana hungry, because I want to be crushing bones all the time, or healing myself when I'm hanging in town. But the extra harness points barely help, it seems. So I'm torn on whether to keep this up.
Major Spiritual. I picked Major over Minor to focus on in the hopes of getting some of the offensive spells soon, and because my sorcerer friend can cover some of the Minor spells. Is this a good idea? Should I be putting more in rather than Empath base?
Society. Good god, what do I choose? My sorcerer friend said he was leaning toward COL and suggested I join that so we could perform abilities in front of each other. I'd really like to hear thoughts on this though because I have no idea what would be good for me. I'm wary of Voln because I don't want to get stuck fighting undead that I can't crush. Otherwise I'd just like some nice abilities, particularly mana ones.
Finally, are there any other tips and tricks I should know about? I'd greatly appreciate any advice.
DIAGONALIZE
MOURNE
Re: New Empath
06/22/2017 04:54 AM CDT
Welcome (back)! Empaths are great fun and very versatile, I hope you're enjoying yourself so far.
I'll preface my responses with a note that I've been playing primarily warpaths for the last mumble years, so I'm not going to make solid recommendations on how to succeed as a pure caster. But I can at least throw out a few things.
>while still retaining decent healing
If you're an empath, and you train in the empath circle, and learn the basics of healing mechanics, you'll be a decent healer. There's very little in the way of training that's going to make or break you for healing that isn't also something you'd be training in for combat. PF, HP, Empath circle spells so you can actually transfer and heal, first aid for diagnose if you care, and if you're impatient, transformation lore. After that, it's just knowing your limits and having some situational awareness and, hopefully, social skills.
So, don't worry about nerfing your healing ability by focusing on being a badass in combat.
>Level: 14
>Major Spiritual....................| 9
>Minor Spiritual....................| 3
>Empath.............................| 26
That's a lot of spell ranks for your level, especially at low levels when you're not necessarily rolling in points. My recommendation would be to cut back to 2x spell training overall for now, and make that 1x empath and 1x between MjS and MnS, based on your personal spell goals. You may still end up wanting to overtrain the Empath circle in particular for CS purposes, but right now might be a bit early for that.
>Stats.
If you've placed for growth and you're finding how that plays at low levels to be comfortable enough, great! Keep in mind that you've got a handful of options to rearrange your stats before 20, so you could mess around with that a bit if you're so inclined, but no red flags leap out at me from that stat lineup, so if you're happy with it, cool.
>Spell Aiming.
This will come down to personal preference. Some people prefer to min-max and dump all their effort into perfecting one method of attack, others prefer to have more tools to cover more situations. If you find yourself not using your bolt spells, you may eventually end up saying screw it and salvaging those points for things you find more useful. Keep in mind that if you're a subscriber, once a year you'll get a free fixskills, plus you can (slowly) migrate skills away to reclaim the points, so you're not locked into a given path. Some of us like to switch things up entirely every couple years for funsies.
>MIU and Arcane Symbols.
These give you access to spells you might otherwise have to have someone else cast on you, or not be able to cast at all, in the form of magic items (wands, imbedded spell jewelry and trinkets) and scrolls (bits of paper with spells written on them).
Wands can be very useful for low level casters, since they don't use your mana pool to function, just charges of the wand itself. Some wands are rechargeable, some will crumble when used up. They'll usually have a handful to a double handful of charges. Some magic items you'll find dropped by critters will require no magic item use to use, like small statues or blue/black/white crystals. Others, like a spell imbedded in a ring or a necklace, will rely on your magic item use training to function.
Scrolls are full of spells you might not have access to. If you have enough Arcane Symbols training, you can invoke the spell off the scroll, and then use your own mana to cast it. As an empath, you might carry around a few scrolls of spells you otherwise wouldn't be able to cast, like defensive spells from the Major Elemental or Wizard circles, or useful utility spells from other circles (like a cleric's Neutralize Curse). There's a limited number of times a given spell can be invoked off a scroll before the words burn away, so these, like most magic items, are generally considered to be consumables.
>Transformation Lore.
Some find they want to bring their healing roundtimes down to nothing and invest in transformation lore to do so. I'd suggest weighing it against other lore goals you might have and deciding from there --- but don't worry about it yet.
>Other Lores.
The lore chart on the wiki can be really useful when deciding what lores you most want to chase and what thresholds you want to hit: https://gswiki.play.net/Lore_chart
Manipulation (in particular for the increased insta-kill chance on Bone Shatter and Wither, a pure Empath's bread and butter spells) and Telepathy (especially for CS cycles for Empathic Assault and increased chance to prop damage to empathically linked targets) are pretty solid choices. I recommend going over the wiki pages for each of the spirit and mental lores to see what they do and choose based on your personal playstyle.
>Physical Fitness.
PF is cheap for empaths, and understood to weigh heavily in defense against critter maneuvers (the old Standard Maneuver Roll). It's also useful for stamina to fuel sigil usage, if you opt for Guardians of Sunfist as a society. And, of course, training heavily in it early on will let you hit the upper end of your health range faster, which is very useful as a healing empath.
That said, yes, you can drop down to 1x eventually if you want to use those spells elsewhere. The new Standard Maneuver Roll (SMRv2) isn't weighted quite so heavily in favor of PF training, and it appears that critter maneuvers are gradually being ported over to that resolution method. It's very common for warpaths to only 1x in PF and they get by fine.
>Survival.
If you spend a lot of time in areas where there are survival checks for weather or terrain, I recommend getting some to prolong your time out and about and to fall less often. You'll have a harder time without it, but it's unlikely to be gamebreaking, so chalk this one up to personal preference.
>Harness.
You're going to be mana hungry for a while at low levels. It's one of the things that may make MIU and wands in particular compelling at the moment. And at low ranks, that extra one mana per HP rank past 1x may feel like a waste of points. However, they add up. Some swear by 2x HP training as pures, some think it's a royal waste and those extra training points are better spent elsewhere.
While you're under level 20 and can freely migrate skills instantaneously, I'd recommend running some comparisons on how 1x HP training feels vs 2x. Give them each a few hunts and inform your decisions thusly.
>Society.
This also comes down to personal preference. With such cheap PF costs, empaths have the potential for a very comfortable stamina pool to fuel Guardians of Sunfist sigils. GoS tends to be my preferred society in general, as I find so many of its sigils useful. Voln can be very useful and give you more tools for fighting the incorporeal undead, which empaths aren't necessarily equipped to handle well. Arguably, the king of all mana abilities among societies is CoL's Sign of Wracking, but it's nestled in a heap of outdated skills and is probably going to be first against the wall should a CoL review ever happen.
I suggest checking out the skills available from each society and seeing what appeals to you most.
>Finally, are there any other tips and tricks I should know about? I'd greatly appreciate any advice.
- When you transfer blood/health loss from others, you'll transfer at a rate of 5*(your level) if I recall correctly, maxing at 75 per transfer. Keep that in mind and try not to kill yourself.
- If you're overtrained in the empath circle, you can actually heal bleeders even if you can't transfer them yet, if you know the base healing spell. (healing spell rank +5)
- Similarly, if you're, say, level 11 but trained to rank 15 in the empath circle, you can heal a major limb scar, not just a minor one. (scar spell rank +4)
- A corpse with negative health will be positive once they're raised, so don't feel like you need to overtax yourself for that dead guy freaking out that he's at -300 health.
- Empathic link + a multi-cycle attack = fun in a pack of bandits.
---
Cendadric says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 110 silver coins for it."
I'll preface my responses with a note that I've been playing primarily warpaths for the last mumble years, so I'm not going to make solid recommendations on how to succeed as a pure caster. But I can at least throw out a few things.
>while still retaining decent healing
If you're an empath, and you train in the empath circle, and learn the basics of healing mechanics, you'll be a decent healer. There's very little in the way of training that's going to make or break you for healing that isn't also something you'd be training in for combat. PF, HP, Empath circle spells so you can actually transfer and heal, first aid for diagnose if you care, and if you're impatient, transformation lore. After that, it's just knowing your limits and having some situational awareness and, hopefully, social skills.
So, don't worry about nerfing your healing ability by focusing on being a badass in combat.
>Level: 14
>Major Spiritual....................| 9
>Minor Spiritual....................| 3
>Empath.............................| 26
That's a lot of spell ranks for your level, especially at low levels when you're not necessarily rolling in points. My recommendation would be to cut back to 2x spell training overall for now, and make that 1x empath and 1x between MjS and MnS, based on your personal spell goals. You may still end up wanting to overtrain the Empath circle in particular for CS purposes, but right now might be a bit early for that.
>Stats.
If you've placed for growth and you're finding how that plays at low levels to be comfortable enough, great! Keep in mind that you've got a handful of options to rearrange your stats before 20, so you could mess around with that a bit if you're so inclined, but no red flags leap out at me from that stat lineup, so if you're happy with it, cool.
>Spell Aiming.
This will come down to personal preference. Some people prefer to min-max and dump all their effort into perfecting one method of attack, others prefer to have more tools to cover more situations. If you find yourself not using your bolt spells, you may eventually end up saying screw it and salvaging those points for things you find more useful. Keep in mind that if you're a subscriber, once a year you'll get a free fixskills, plus you can (slowly) migrate skills away to reclaim the points, so you're not locked into a given path. Some of us like to switch things up entirely every couple years for funsies.
>MIU and Arcane Symbols.
These give you access to spells you might otherwise have to have someone else cast on you, or not be able to cast at all, in the form of magic items (wands, imbedded spell jewelry and trinkets) and scrolls (bits of paper with spells written on them).
Wands can be very useful for low level casters, since they don't use your mana pool to function, just charges of the wand itself. Some wands are rechargeable, some will crumble when used up. They'll usually have a handful to a double handful of charges. Some magic items you'll find dropped by critters will require no magic item use to use, like small statues or blue/black/white crystals. Others, like a spell imbedded in a ring or a necklace, will rely on your magic item use training to function.
Scrolls are full of spells you might not have access to. If you have enough Arcane Symbols training, you can invoke the spell off the scroll, and then use your own mana to cast it. As an empath, you might carry around a few scrolls of spells you otherwise wouldn't be able to cast, like defensive spells from the Major Elemental or Wizard circles, or useful utility spells from other circles (like a cleric's Neutralize Curse). There's a limited number of times a given spell can be invoked off a scroll before the words burn away, so these, like most magic items, are generally considered to be consumables.
>Transformation Lore.
Some find they want to bring their healing roundtimes down to nothing and invest in transformation lore to do so. I'd suggest weighing it against other lore goals you might have and deciding from there --- but don't worry about it yet.
>Other Lores.
The lore chart on the wiki can be really useful when deciding what lores you most want to chase and what thresholds you want to hit: https://gswiki.play.net/Lore_chart
Manipulation (in particular for the increased insta-kill chance on Bone Shatter and Wither, a pure Empath's bread and butter spells) and Telepathy (especially for CS cycles for Empathic Assault and increased chance to prop damage to empathically linked targets) are pretty solid choices. I recommend going over the wiki pages for each of the spirit and mental lores to see what they do and choose based on your personal playstyle.
>Physical Fitness.
PF is cheap for empaths, and understood to weigh heavily in defense against critter maneuvers (the old Standard Maneuver Roll). It's also useful for stamina to fuel sigil usage, if you opt for Guardians of Sunfist as a society. And, of course, training heavily in it early on will let you hit the upper end of your health range faster, which is very useful as a healing empath.
That said, yes, you can drop down to 1x eventually if you want to use those spells elsewhere. The new Standard Maneuver Roll (SMRv2) isn't weighted quite so heavily in favor of PF training, and it appears that critter maneuvers are gradually being ported over to that resolution method. It's very common for warpaths to only 1x in PF and they get by fine.
>Survival.
If you spend a lot of time in areas where there are survival checks for weather or terrain, I recommend getting some to prolong your time out and about and to fall less often. You'll have a harder time without it, but it's unlikely to be gamebreaking, so chalk this one up to personal preference.
>Harness.
You're going to be mana hungry for a while at low levels. It's one of the things that may make MIU and wands in particular compelling at the moment. And at low ranks, that extra one mana per HP rank past 1x may feel like a waste of points. However, they add up. Some swear by 2x HP training as pures, some think it's a royal waste and those extra training points are better spent elsewhere.
While you're under level 20 and can freely migrate skills instantaneously, I'd recommend running some comparisons on how 1x HP training feels vs 2x. Give them each a few hunts and inform your decisions thusly.
>Society.
This also comes down to personal preference. With such cheap PF costs, empaths have the potential for a very comfortable stamina pool to fuel Guardians of Sunfist sigils. GoS tends to be my preferred society in general, as I find so many of its sigils useful. Voln can be very useful and give you more tools for fighting the incorporeal undead, which empaths aren't necessarily equipped to handle well. Arguably, the king of all mana abilities among societies is CoL's Sign of Wracking, but it's nestled in a heap of outdated skills and is probably going to be first against the wall should a CoL review ever happen.
I suggest checking out the skills available from each society and seeing what appeals to you most.
>Finally, are there any other tips and tricks I should know about? I'd greatly appreciate any advice.
- When you transfer blood/health loss from others, you'll transfer at a rate of 5*(your level) if I recall correctly, maxing at 75 per transfer. Keep that in mind and try not to kill yourself.
- If you're overtrained in the empath circle, you can actually heal bleeders even if you can't transfer them yet, if you know the base healing spell. (healing spell rank +5)
- Similarly, if you're, say, level 11 but trained to rank 15 in the empath circle, you can heal a major limb scar, not just a minor one. (scar spell rank +4)
- A corpse with negative health will be positive once they're raised, so don't feel like you need to overtax yourself for that dead guy freaking out that he's at -300 health.
- Empathic link + a multi-cycle attack = fun in a pack of bandits.
---
Cendadric says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note. I'll give you 110 silver coins for it."
RATHBONER
Re: New Empath
06/22/2017 06:21 AM CDT
Stats: I'd probably come up with almost identical stats for a growth build. You don't seem to be hurting for TPs/CS/mana which is where you make sacrifices to get the stat growth, so no reason to change. Just review your status before you lose the opportunity for a free reset. Critters can start wearing armor and putting up blues in the teens and suddenly CS doesn't look as good as it used to.
Spell Aim: doing without spell aim is more of a cleric thing (21 PTP per level cost to a cleric but only 15 to an empath), and having an AS attack is important for compatibility with a wide range of groups/partners (rather less important if you always hunt with the same partner who is the same level as you). You are missing out by not training MIU to wave wands, which would make rather better use of your spell aim training than 1700 does.
AS/MIU: You would carry a lot of wands, depending on how much variety you wanted to have available to you. You shouldn't be hurting for the carrying capacity to manage it though. Scrolls allow access to spells you can't get by other means. e.g. 507 and 508 are self cast, so a wizard can't cast them on you, but if you have a scroll with them you can cast them on yourself. If you wanted to use 1202 (Ironskin) rather than armor, (unlikely till a much higher level because of the transformation lore you'd want to have), that requires 1202 scrolls. You aren't likely to have much use for AS yet, but you will want to pick it up eventually. If there's not a ranger around Icemule, then scroll/items for 602.
Summoning strikes me as an odd choice to start out with, because you are leaving MnS low and that's where a lot of the benefits from summoning are.
Its normal to push MjS before MnS if you are using spell aim, because 211/215 give big AS bonuses. If you are actually using your spell aim, then it would pay you to take spells out of empath to get 215 at next level.
PF: I'd stick with 2x for the manoever defense.
Harness: get MIU and carry wands. Pick the time when you can safely throw 1106 with empty hands in offensive stance and channel it rather than spamming in guarded. It makes a lot of difference to how much mana it takes to get a kill. Your stats aren't great for meditate (DE and growth setting doesn't help) but its still 6 extra per pulse when you are wanting mana to heal yourself and there's bread too.
Society: You can crush non-corp if your sorcerer friend has phased them. Sunfist does seem to be the favored empath society but wracking to power CS spells is nice.
Spell Aim: doing without spell aim is more of a cleric thing (21 PTP per level cost to a cleric but only 15 to an empath), and having an AS attack is important for compatibility with a wide range of groups/partners (rather less important if you always hunt with the same partner who is the same level as you). You are missing out by not training MIU to wave wands, which would make rather better use of your spell aim training than 1700 does.
AS/MIU: You would carry a lot of wands, depending on how much variety you wanted to have available to you. You shouldn't be hurting for the carrying capacity to manage it though. Scrolls allow access to spells you can't get by other means. e.g. 507 and 508 are self cast, so a wizard can't cast them on you, but if you have a scroll with them you can cast them on yourself. If you wanted to use 1202 (Ironskin) rather than armor, (unlikely till a much higher level because of the transformation lore you'd want to have), that requires 1202 scrolls. You aren't likely to have much use for AS yet, but you will want to pick it up eventually. If there's not a ranger around Icemule, then scroll/items for 602.
Summoning strikes me as an odd choice to start out with, because you are leaving MnS low and that's where a lot of the benefits from summoning are.
Its normal to push MjS before MnS if you are using spell aim, because 211/215 give big AS bonuses. If you are actually using your spell aim, then it would pay you to take spells out of empath to get 215 at next level.
PF: I'd stick with 2x for the manoever defense.
Harness: get MIU and carry wands. Pick the time when you can safely throw 1106 with empty hands in offensive stance and channel it rather than spamming in guarded. It makes a lot of difference to how much mana it takes to get a kill. Your stats aren't great for meditate (DE and growth setting doesn't help) but its still 6 extra per pulse when you are wanting mana to heal yourself and there's bread too.
Society: You can crush non-corp if your sorcerer friend has phased them. Sunfist does seem to be the favored empath society but wracking to power CS spells is nice.
JGALT22
Re: New Empath
06/22/2017 07:52 AM CDT
Welcome (back) to the game/empathing!
Stats - They look fine. You're under level 20 you can change your stats around and get some idea of what set you prefer. Just be sure to save one of your five stat changes for level 19 so you have the most information possible for your final decision.
Spell Aim - Spell aiming is great! It adds a lot of versatility to your arsenal and greatly expands your hunting options as there are a number of creatures that are immune to Bone Shatter. That being said, it is training point and mana intensive. At level 40 and 2x in Harness Power, I still didn't feel like I could bolt as my main attack and missed some of the skills/spells I had to give up to get it. Also, creatures under level 35 have a harder time to defending against Shatter. I'd recommend focusing on Shatter for now and using your yearly fixskill to get into spell aiming later if you start to feel too restricted.
MIU/Arcane Symbols - If all the benefit you receive from these skills is runestaff DS then I'd say they aren't worth it. Probably better to train in spells in that situation. If you can find a player alchemist to get you a regular supply of Shatter wands then MIU would be a great way to extend your hunts. If you have spell aim then the wizard wands are relatively plentiful, otherwise I wouldn't be bothered about not having MIU.
Transformation Lore - If your focus is on combat and you only really expect to be healing yourself and your partner between hunts, I'd say postpone or skip this. It's really nice when you're in town and healing people right and left, but is a luxury otherwise.
Other Lores - Lores offer so many different bumps to so many different things I'd recommend spending some time on the wiki and seeing which matter to you. For my Shatter-focused empath, I decided they could wait until much later in life. Summoning is pretty nifty for spell aiming though.
Physical Fitness - It's so cheap for empaths and is either the primary factor or an important factor in creature maneuver attacks. 2x it, I say. If you decide to go Sunfist, seriously consider 3x.
Survival - Sounds nice, but it's not necessary, even in Icemule. The damage from being exposed to the elements, I think is trivial and the reduction in slippage is just that; a reduction, not an elimination. You'll still fall on your butt sometimes even with this skill. I decided to save this for later on.
Harness - Costs a ton to 2x for hugely diminished returns. However, I recently dropped to 1x at lvl 40 and bitterly regret it. I'd say 2x it until you feel comfortable with your mana pool then let it drop off to 1x.
Spells - If you don't go spell aim, you can postpone going in depth into the 200s. Otherwise, you'll want 211/215 soon-ish. For the 100s, you'll want 111 if you're spell aiming. For a Shatter-focused empath without a 100s providing friend, I'd go empath spells up to level then 203/120 then empath up to level plus 21 and then...whatever suits your fancy (I love 213, makes foraging a breeze, rescues safer, and allows you to create a safe-ish place in the field to recoup mana rather than return to town). Those 21 empath spells over level provide an extra 15 CS which is very nice to have.
Society
Voln - I had no trouble mastering Voln as a Shatter empath, but I am finding it a little bit difficult to find Shatter vulnerable undead at my level now. That being said, I stockpiled an enormous amount of favor from hunting zombies, farmhands, and ice trolls and still have a bunch of favor even though I haven't hunted undead much in the last 5+ levels. I love Symbol of Return because it makes researching 130 far less of a priority and Voln has some other nifty transportation benefits, especially in Icemule when you start hunting Pinefar/the mountain.
Sunfist - sounds great for an empath because we've got great stamina, but I have no experience with it. Warcamps are great for always having a nearby like-level hunting ground and trolls are delightfully susceptible to fire (hello Fire Spirit!). The few characters I've put in Sunfist have struggled to solo warcamps, but with a dedicated hunting partner, you'll have less difficulty with camps.
CoL - I don't have much experience with CoL either, but it has some great AS/DS bonuses. I don't know how much wracking interferes with a bolter's AS, seems like a lot to me. Also, as a dark elf, you have terrible, terrible spirit regeneration. You can make any of them work so choose what sounds best to you. I would say that being able to use signs in front of your partner is a pretty minor benefit, it's not much hardship to move 1 room, wrack, and move back. Also also, CoL has basically no social component whereas Voln and Sunfist will lead you to meeting your fellow adventurers.
I read in one of Whirlin's profession guides that wracking, for a Dark Elf, becomes better than Voln's Symbol of Mana once a mana pool of 250 is reached. However, if you 1x Harness Power that's level 80-ish and if you 2x HP it's level 60-ish. That's a long time to wait for parity in mana if that's your main concern.
And, just to give you more to think about, you could consider being a two-handed weapon swinger. Empaths get some fantastic AS boosters, some nifty disabling/stunning spells, and can wear brigandine armor with 7% spell hindrance.
tl;dr - Use your under level 20 instant skill migrations to liberally experiment with different play styles and pick what sounds best to you now knowing that you have a free yearly fixskills to change up when you feel it's necessary (additional fixskills are available through bounty points, silvers, and simucoins, too).
Stats - They look fine. You're under level 20 you can change your stats around and get some idea of what set you prefer. Just be sure to save one of your five stat changes for level 19 so you have the most information possible for your final decision.
Spell Aim - Spell aiming is great! It adds a lot of versatility to your arsenal and greatly expands your hunting options as there are a number of creatures that are immune to Bone Shatter. That being said, it is training point and mana intensive. At level 40 and 2x in Harness Power, I still didn't feel like I could bolt as my main attack and missed some of the skills/spells I had to give up to get it. Also, creatures under level 35 have a harder time to defending against Shatter. I'd recommend focusing on Shatter for now and using your yearly fixskill to get into spell aiming later if you start to feel too restricted.
MIU/Arcane Symbols - If all the benefit you receive from these skills is runestaff DS then I'd say they aren't worth it. Probably better to train in spells in that situation. If you can find a player alchemist to get you a regular supply of Shatter wands then MIU would be a great way to extend your hunts. If you have spell aim then the wizard wands are relatively plentiful, otherwise I wouldn't be bothered about not having MIU.
Transformation Lore - If your focus is on combat and you only really expect to be healing yourself and your partner between hunts, I'd say postpone or skip this. It's really nice when you're in town and healing people right and left, but is a luxury otherwise.
Other Lores - Lores offer so many different bumps to so many different things I'd recommend spending some time on the wiki and seeing which matter to you. For my Shatter-focused empath, I decided they could wait until much later in life. Summoning is pretty nifty for spell aiming though.
Physical Fitness - It's so cheap for empaths and is either the primary factor or an important factor in creature maneuver attacks. 2x it, I say. If you decide to go Sunfist, seriously consider 3x.
Survival - Sounds nice, but it's not necessary, even in Icemule. The damage from being exposed to the elements, I think is trivial and the reduction in slippage is just that; a reduction, not an elimination. You'll still fall on your butt sometimes even with this skill. I decided to save this for later on.
Harness - Costs a ton to 2x for hugely diminished returns. However, I recently dropped to 1x at lvl 40 and bitterly regret it. I'd say 2x it until you feel comfortable with your mana pool then let it drop off to 1x.
Spells - If you don't go spell aim, you can postpone going in depth into the 200s. Otherwise, you'll want 211/215 soon-ish. For the 100s, you'll want 111 if you're spell aiming. For a Shatter-focused empath without a 100s providing friend, I'd go empath spells up to level then 203/120 then empath up to level plus 21 and then...whatever suits your fancy (I love 213, makes foraging a breeze, rescues safer, and allows you to create a safe-ish place in the field to recoup mana rather than return to town). Those 21 empath spells over level provide an extra 15 CS which is very nice to have.
Society
Voln - I had no trouble mastering Voln as a Shatter empath, but I am finding it a little bit difficult to find Shatter vulnerable undead at my level now. That being said, I stockpiled an enormous amount of favor from hunting zombies, farmhands, and ice trolls and still have a bunch of favor even though I haven't hunted undead much in the last 5+ levels. I love Symbol of Return because it makes researching 130 far less of a priority and Voln has some other nifty transportation benefits, especially in Icemule when you start hunting Pinefar/the mountain.
Sunfist - sounds great for an empath because we've got great stamina, but I have no experience with it. Warcamps are great for always having a nearby like-level hunting ground and trolls are delightfully susceptible to fire (hello Fire Spirit!). The few characters I've put in Sunfist have struggled to solo warcamps, but with a dedicated hunting partner, you'll have less difficulty with camps.
CoL - I don't have much experience with CoL either, but it has some great AS/DS bonuses. I don't know how much wracking interferes with a bolter's AS, seems like a lot to me. Also, as a dark elf, you have terrible, terrible spirit regeneration. You can make any of them work so choose what sounds best to you. I would say that being able to use signs in front of your partner is a pretty minor benefit, it's not much hardship to move 1 room, wrack, and move back. Also also, CoL has basically no social component whereas Voln and Sunfist will lead you to meeting your fellow adventurers.
I read in one of Whirlin's profession guides that wracking, for a Dark Elf, becomes better than Voln's Symbol of Mana once a mana pool of 250 is reached. However, if you 1x Harness Power that's level 80-ish and if you 2x HP it's level 60-ish. That's a long time to wait for parity in mana if that's your main concern.
And, just to give you more to think about, you could consider being a two-handed weapon swinger. Empaths get some fantastic AS boosters, some nifty disabling/stunning spells, and can wear brigandine armor with 7% spell hindrance.
tl;dr - Use your under level 20 instant skill migrations to liberally experiment with different play styles and pick what sounds best to you now knowing that you have a free yearly fixskills to change up when you feel it's necessary (additional fixskills are available through bounty points, silvers, and simucoins, too).
DRUMPEL
Re: New Empath
06/22/2017 08:48 AM CDT
I've been putting time into my empath recently - in all honesty I feel my empath is a better all around combat class over my wizards. I can bolt (a couple of native spells, but they're kind of mana intensive to really make use of so I stick with wands) just as well as my lower leveled wizard could at the same level. I also have a much more beneficial and useful warding spell with 1106 over anything my wizard has access to right now.
Here's my training. I've got him focused on being a good skinner, bolt slinger and warding caster.
(at level 24), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 126 33
Spell Aiming.......................| 150 50
Harness Power......................| 150 50
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 45 9
Survival...........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 82 18
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 150 50
Trading............................| 105 25
Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 15
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 10
Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 25
>MIU and Arcane Symbols.
I work on MIU right now, I want to get it to 40 ranks minimum and at that point I'm going to switch over to AS and get that up to 40 ranks and then continue to build both from there. MIU is great for using items, especially if you want to use wands. You want at minimum, 25 ranks MIU if you want to wave bolting wands that hold 903, 904 and 906 without fail (unless you're overly encumbered). I found at 30 ranks, even if encumbered a little, I can wave any bolt wands still without issues.
>Spell Aiming.
Yes, this is something I focus on. It makes life easier for me out hunting. Relying strictly on casting 1106 or the freebie 1700 (hard RT 5sec cast time is annoying, plus low damage threshold, it becomes less useful the higher in levels you get) means I run out of mana too fast to get a complete hunt in at his current level. 1106 right now usually takes 2-3 casts (12-18 mana), that means usually 5-8 creatures before I'm out of mana. Spell Aiming helps him overcome mana limitations at the younger levels.
>Major Spiritual.
I just picked up 215 this training and the extra bump to my bolt AS puts him close to my level 34 wizard's bolt AS. Use of COL signs, 211/215 gives 250 bolt AS on my empath. On my level 34 wizard, use of COL, 425 and 513 gives 275 bolt AS.
>Harness.
I focus 2x HP, it seems like a paltry increase to mana for the training points, but over time it does add up. At level 24 he's got 100 mana with 2x Harness Power. If he was only 1x his mana would be 74 mana. I know, you're now going oh wow....26 mana difference, big whoop! However, the increased mana from 2x HP also helps with the mana per pulse he gets. If I went 1x HP, he'd have 74 mana and earn 15 mana/pulse off node and 22 mana/pulse on node. At 2x he earns 19 mana/pulse off node and 28 mana/pulse on node. 26 mana can make a big difference for staying out longer on hunts or being able to rely on other spells to help defuse/control a situation on a hunt you may not normally be able to do if you lack enough mana.
Here is how I hunt him on a normal basis:
He holds his runestaff at all times and will stance offensive and CHANNEL 1106 for the initial attack.
He then pulls out a wand (aqua or better, depending on what he finds or picks up at the pawnshops) and 1-3 waves will kill any target he hunts.
He'll skin and search the creature and be on his way.
With 100 mana to use, a 6 mana spell being cast 1x and having at least 6 wands on him (even better if he can get some fresh wands duped by a wizard), he can run around for 15-20 minutes, if needed, to hunt without having to worry about mana constraints. Between all the skins and treasure he finds, he'll make 20-50k (depending on creatures' treasure and skin value). I then go through a local pawnshop or two and pick up another 3-5 wands for anywhere from 800-2,500 silver a pop. The great the cost for a wand, from what I can tell, means more likely to hold more charges.
>Society.
I tend to go with COL. 35 to bolt/swing AS, 35 to DS. There's also an extra sign for +10 to bolt DS, so it's a great boon for any character I have that's THW or TWC. You can easily mix/match signs to suit your hunting needs. Also, COL's ability to gain mana back hits your spirit hard so any bolt AS is tanked, but you can still cast CS spells without fail.
-Drumpel
Here's my training. I've got him focused on being a good skinner, bolt slinger and warding caster.
(at level 24), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 126 33
Spell Aiming.......................| 150 50
Harness Power......................| 150 50
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 45 9
Survival...........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 82 18
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 150 50
Trading............................| 105 25
Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 15
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 10
Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 25
>MIU and Arcane Symbols.
I work on MIU right now, I want to get it to 40 ranks minimum and at that point I'm going to switch over to AS and get that up to 40 ranks and then continue to build both from there. MIU is great for using items, especially if you want to use wands. You want at minimum, 25 ranks MIU if you want to wave bolting wands that hold 903, 904 and 906 without fail (unless you're overly encumbered). I found at 30 ranks, even if encumbered a little, I can wave any bolt wands still without issues.
>Spell Aiming.
Yes, this is something I focus on. It makes life easier for me out hunting. Relying strictly on casting 1106 or the freebie 1700 (hard RT 5sec cast time is annoying, plus low damage threshold, it becomes less useful the higher in levels you get) means I run out of mana too fast to get a complete hunt in at his current level. 1106 right now usually takes 2-3 casts (12-18 mana), that means usually 5-8 creatures before I'm out of mana. Spell Aiming helps him overcome mana limitations at the younger levels.
>Major Spiritual.
I just picked up 215 this training and the extra bump to my bolt AS puts him close to my level 34 wizard's bolt AS. Use of COL signs, 211/215 gives 250 bolt AS on my empath. On my level 34 wizard, use of COL, 425 and 513 gives 275 bolt AS.
>Harness.
I focus 2x HP, it seems like a paltry increase to mana for the training points, but over time it does add up. At level 24 he's got 100 mana with 2x Harness Power. If he was only 1x his mana would be 74 mana. I know, you're now going oh wow....26 mana difference, big whoop! However, the increased mana from 2x HP also helps with the mana per pulse he gets. If I went 1x HP, he'd have 74 mana and earn 15 mana/pulse off node and 22 mana/pulse on node. At 2x he earns 19 mana/pulse off node and 28 mana/pulse on node. 26 mana can make a big difference for staying out longer on hunts or being able to rely on other spells to help defuse/control a situation on a hunt you may not normally be able to do if you lack enough mana.
Here is how I hunt him on a normal basis:
He holds his runestaff at all times and will stance offensive and CHANNEL 1106 for the initial attack.
He then pulls out a wand (aqua or better, depending on what he finds or picks up at the pawnshops) and 1-3 waves will kill any target he hunts.
He'll skin and search the creature and be on his way.
With 100 mana to use, a 6 mana spell being cast 1x and having at least 6 wands on him (even better if he can get some fresh wands duped by a wizard), he can run around for 15-20 minutes, if needed, to hunt without having to worry about mana constraints. Between all the skins and treasure he finds, he'll make 20-50k (depending on creatures' treasure and skin value). I then go through a local pawnshop or two and pick up another 3-5 wands for anywhere from 800-2,500 silver a pop. The great the cost for a wand, from what I can tell, means more likely to hold more charges.
>Society.
I tend to go with COL. 35 to bolt/swing AS, 35 to DS. There's also an extra sign for +10 to bolt DS, so it's a great boon for any character I have that's THW or TWC. You can easily mix/match signs to suit your hunting needs. Also, COL's ability to gain mana back hits your spirit hard so any bolt AS is tanked, but you can still cast CS spells without fail.
-Drumpel
OM1E5GA
Re: New Empath
06/22/2017 10:50 AM CDT
Other's have already hit most important points, so I'm just going to touch on the one thing that wasn't mentioned.
There's nothing wrong with setting stats for growth, but you are going to find things a bit more challenging starting out then someone that set their prime stats and other important ones higher to start. Specifically, I'm looking at the low WIS and INF stats and the fact that you seem to be on the fence about bolting. Those two stats are the important ones for determining your CS and if they're not going to max out til 100, you're going to find hunting with just CS spells challenging in your 30s and 40s at least unless you take this into account in some way with your training.
If you decided to train in Spell Aim so you can bolt, you'll be set. I'd recommend this anyway since there are a lot of critters that are immune to 1106 (most golems, non-corp undead, anything else that doesn't have bones), which will be your main CS spell until you have enough mana to cast 1115 regularly (this happens later then you might think). Being versatile is never a bad thing in GS and you'll appreciate being able to adjust your tactics to match your foe's strengths/weaknesses rather then just being a one trick pony, esp when you solo hunt.
Alternatively, you could take the TPs you would have put into Spell Aim and bolt related lores and use them to get more spells. This would boost your CS to make up for your stats, which is important because CS spells generally rely on successfully warding your target by a wide margin to be effective. There are several empaths that have enjoyed going the pure CS route, but you're going to have to be a bit more picky about what you hunt if you go this route since you won't have your bolts or wizard wands to fall back on with things that 1106/1115 aren't effective on.
<Society. Good god, what do I choose? My sorcerer friend said he was leaning toward COL and suggested I join that so we could perform abilities in front of each other. I'd really like to hear thoughts on this though because I have no idea what would be good for me. I'm wary of Voln because I don't want to get stuck fighting undead that I can't crush. Otherwise I'd just like some nice abilities, particularly mana ones.>
Societies are a personal choice, they all have their perks.
If you decide to join Voln, I'd recommend NOT going for a pure CS build since there are a lot of non-corp undead (read: immune to 1106) and undead tend to have a higher TD then other critters. Going with Voln will give you access to SEEKING which will allow you to TP into some hunting grounds you can't otherwise TP into, you'll also be able to preserve yourself when you die and call for a drag back to town with NEED.
COL is the best one if you just want to master your society quickly and be done with it. It also gives the best option of any of the three for replenishing mana (esp for CS casters) and you won't have to rely on stamina or hunting undead to use your abilities. Your low AUR will mean you'll have to keep a closer eye on your spirit levels until it hits 95, though.
GOS will force you to see more of Elanthia and give you the ability to hunt in any town at any level via warcamps. If you like hunting in places that swarm heavily, you'll love this society. If you don't, GOS prolly isn't a good match for you.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
There's nothing wrong with setting stats for growth, but you are going to find things a bit more challenging starting out then someone that set their prime stats and other important ones higher to start. Specifically, I'm looking at the low WIS and INF stats and the fact that you seem to be on the fence about bolting. Those two stats are the important ones for determining your CS and if they're not going to max out til 100, you're going to find hunting with just CS spells challenging in your 30s and 40s at least unless you take this into account in some way with your training.
If you decided to train in Spell Aim so you can bolt, you'll be set. I'd recommend this anyway since there are a lot of critters that are immune to 1106 (most golems, non-corp undead, anything else that doesn't have bones), which will be your main CS spell until you have enough mana to cast 1115 regularly (this happens later then you might think). Being versatile is never a bad thing in GS and you'll appreciate being able to adjust your tactics to match your foe's strengths/weaknesses rather then just being a one trick pony, esp when you solo hunt.
Alternatively, you could take the TPs you would have put into Spell Aim and bolt related lores and use them to get more spells. This would boost your CS to make up for your stats, which is important because CS spells generally rely on successfully warding your target by a wide margin to be effective. There are several empaths that have enjoyed going the pure CS route, but you're going to have to be a bit more picky about what you hunt if you go this route since you won't have your bolts or wizard wands to fall back on with things that 1106/1115 aren't effective on.
<Society. Good god, what do I choose? My sorcerer friend said he was leaning toward COL and suggested I join that so we could perform abilities in front of each other. I'd really like to hear thoughts on this though because I have no idea what would be good for me. I'm wary of Voln because I don't want to get stuck fighting undead that I can't crush. Otherwise I'd just like some nice abilities, particularly mana ones.>
Societies are a personal choice, they all have their perks.
If you decide to join Voln, I'd recommend NOT going for a pure CS build since there are a lot of non-corp undead (read: immune to 1106) and undead tend to have a higher TD then other critters. Going with Voln will give you access to SEEKING which will allow you to TP into some hunting grounds you can't otherwise TP into, you'll also be able to preserve yourself when you die and call for a drag back to town with NEED.
COL is the best one if you just want to master your society quickly and be done with it. It also gives the best option of any of the three for replenishing mana (esp for CS casters) and you won't have to rely on stamina or hunting undead to use your abilities. Your low AUR will mean you'll have to keep a closer eye on your spirit levels until it hits 95, though.
GOS will force you to see more of Elanthia and give you the ability to hunt in any town at any level via warcamps. If you like hunting in places that swarm heavily, you'll love this society. If you don't, GOS prolly isn't a good match for you.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
ZHOUY1
Re: New Empath
06/22/2017 02:46 PM CDT
Some talk about wands and scrolls:
The common wands that you will probably use are aquamarine wands (Minor Water) and gold/golden wands (Minor Fire). You can buy these from alchemist shops in town where they should have 20 charges. To use them you will want around 30 MIU and of course be trained in Spell Aiming. Some shops also sell slender blue wands (Minor Cold) which are similar to fire wands. Water wands are about 2000 silvers on average, fire wands are 5000 silvers. So, the cost of waving a wand is 100 to 250 silvers. You can decide if that is worth it.
If/when Player-Run Shops are unfrozen I expect that it will become much easier to get Bone Shatter wands (also 20 charges) which you don't need Spell Aiming for.
Scrolls are only available through random treasure drops and you'll need much more skill ranks than you have right now to one-hand invoke them. They have a somewhat random selection of spells, more varied than wands but not very practical in the middle of combat. What they are most useful for is getting access to defensive spells that you wouldn't normally have. Remember to either take off your armor or be in a sanctuary when invoking defensive scrolls because the hindrance rate may be higher than what you expect.
(By the way if you are hunting non-corporeals with a sorcerer then you can Bone Shatter them after a Phase.)
The common wands that you will probably use are aquamarine wands (Minor Water) and gold/golden wands (Minor Fire). You can buy these from alchemist shops in town where they should have 20 charges. To use them you will want around 30 MIU and of course be trained in Spell Aiming. Some shops also sell slender blue wands (Minor Cold) which are similar to fire wands. Water wands are about 2000 silvers on average, fire wands are 5000 silvers. So, the cost of waving a wand is 100 to 250 silvers. You can decide if that is worth it.
If/when Player-Run Shops are unfrozen I expect that it will become much easier to get Bone Shatter wands (also 20 charges) which you don't need Spell Aiming for.
Scrolls are only available through random treasure drops and you'll need much more skill ranks than you have right now to one-hand invoke them. They have a somewhat random selection of spells, more varied than wands but not very practical in the middle of combat. What they are most useful for is getting access to defensive spells that you wouldn't normally have. Remember to either take off your armor or be in a sanctuary when invoking defensive scrolls because the hindrance rate may be higher than what you expect.
(By the way if you are hunting non-corporeals with a sorcerer then you can Bone Shatter them after a Phase.)
THROGG
Re: New Empath
06/22/2017 10:46 PM CDT
Empaths have more lores affecting their spells than any other casting profession. I'd recommend leaving them alone for now until you get more of your basic skills down.
Spell aiming + Wizard wands will save you mana, which is a consideration when you are low level. Wands do cost money, of course. However, you can do a few things to reduce the expense.
1) Wands dropped by critters haven't been duplicated; hence, a wizard can duplicate them for you.
2) Pawn shop may have wands for sale. If they haven't been duped before, again, a wizard can duplicate them.
3) Rangers can imbue sticks and turn them into rods/wands. These can then be embedded by a wizard.
You will note the term "wizard" keeps coming up. Make friends with one!
Using sorceror wands is generally not so effective, as you usually won't have the CS needed to ward creatures your own level. However, underhuntng with twisted wands and a heavy orb
can sometimes work.
First aid is a cheap skill for empaths. It reduces the time needed for healing with herbs, but more to the point, it's a prime skill to determine skinning ability.
Empaths with 2x in this skill can make decent change selling skins/pelts.
Warpaths: a different breed of cat entirely, but empaths are better suited than clerics for using weapons in combat, since they have more spells that buff this. Giantkin or Dwarf might be a better choice for this training path.
Note: CoL might not be the best society for a Dark Elf, since this race has abyssmally slow spirit regeneration.
Spell aiming + Wizard wands will save you mana, which is a consideration when you are low level. Wands do cost money, of course. However, you can do a few things to reduce the expense.
1) Wands dropped by critters haven't been duplicated; hence, a wizard can duplicate them for you.
2) Pawn shop may have wands for sale. If they haven't been duped before, again, a wizard can duplicate them.
3) Rangers can imbue sticks and turn them into rods/wands. These can then be embedded by a wizard.
You will note the term "wizard" keeps coming up. Make friends with one!
Using sorceror wands is generally not so effective, as you usually won't have the CS needed to ward creatures your own level. However, underhuntng with twisted wands and a heavy orb
can sometimes work.
First aid is a cheap skill for empaths. It reduces the time needed for healing with herbs, but more to the point, it's a prime skill to determine skinning ability.
Empaths with 2x in this skill can make decent change selling skins/pelts.
Warpaths: a different breed of cat entirely, but empaths are better suited than clerics for using weapons in combat, since they have more spells that buff this. Giantkin or Dwarf might be a better choice for this training path.
Note: CoL might not be the best society for a Dark Elf, since this race has abyssmally slow spirit regeneration.
DIAGONALIZE
Re: New Empath
06/23/2017 12:01 AM CDT
Wow, a deluge of information. Just what I was hoping for! Thank you all for so much thoughtful contribution. I will consider everything.
Just a few notes here. First, I totally didn't think of saving Lores for later. The guides make it sound like you should be training most things from the beginning and I just figured there was some reason for it. Like maybe getting to level 50 and realizing that I want 50 ranks and having to start from scratch? But I suppose it doesn't have to be that way.
Also, the main thing that weighs on me is that I can't really try out the bolt casting without committing, since it feels so incomplete right now at sub-20. But on balance it seems to be favored so I think I'll try that route.
Societies... still such a hard choice. I think I'd be sold on COL if not for the Dark Elf spirit regen. I'm still not sure I want to have to focus on undead or move around to fight for Sunfist (that's what it sounded like I'd have to do anyway).
Overall I'm relieved that my stats seem okay and I am roughly on the right track. I'll probably focus a bit more into the spirit realms and HP, and move down lores until later. MIU I might test but it just seems like such a hassle to find and keep track of wands when I've got 1700.
Just a few notes here. First, I totally didn't think of saving Lores for later. The guides make it sound like you should be training most things from the beginning and I just figured there was some reason for it. Like maybe getting to level 50 and realizing that I want 50 ranks and having to start from scratch? But I suppose it doesn't have to be that way.
Also, the main thing that weighs on me is that I can't really try out the bolt casting without committing, since it feels so incomplete right now at sub-20. But on balance it seems to be favored so I think I'll try that route.
Societies... still such a hard choice. I think I'd be sold on COL if not for the Dark Elf spirit regen. I'm still not sure I want to have to focus on undead or move around to fight for Sunfist (that's what it sounded like I'd have to do anyway).
Overall I'm relieved that my stats seem okay and I am roughly on the right track. I'll probably focus a bit more into the spirit realms and HP, and move down lores until later. MIU I might test but it just seems like such a hassle to find and keep track of wands when I've got 1700.
RATHBONER
Re: New Empath
06/23/2017 05:45 AM CDT
>move around to fight for Sunfist
Its just a task for one of the steps. There's no continuing commitment.
>MIU I might test but it just seems like such a hassle to find and keep track of wands when I've got 1700.
1700 ought to seem like a real hassle to use compared to buying a wand each time you are selling off other loot in the pawn. You'd be spending something like 30s of hard RT on 1700 to get the same effect as 9s of soft RT with wands. I've seen script hunters using 1700 against frost giants, but it has to be really tedious if you are actually playing.
You'll want a macro or script to do the waving in order to spend minimal time in offensive e.g. "\xstance off\rwave my wand at target\rstance gua\r" (script if you wanted to grab the wand and/or set the target as part of the command).
e.g. script wand
put rummage in my pack %1 wand
put stance offensive
put wave my wand at %2
put stance guarded
put stow wand
and then ".wand gold troll" to grab a golden wand and wave it at the nearest troll.
"sort cluster wand in my pack" to keep track of the wands you have available to you or just set the flag for sorted view and look.
Once you've got the hang of using wands, you'll wonder how you ever tried to take a spell aiming trained character through their teens without them.
When you get to using your own bolt spells, you'll want something similar in the way of macros/script for them too.
Its just a task for one of the steps. There's no continuing commitment.
>MIU I might test but it just seems like such a hassle to find and keep track of wands when I've got 1700.
1700 ought to seem like a real hassle to use compared to buying a wand each time you are selling off other loot in the pawn. You'd be spending something like 30s of hard RT on 1700 to get the same effect as 9s of soft RT with wands. I've seen script hunters using 1700 against frost giants, but it has to be really tedious if you are actually playing.
You'll want a macro or script to do the waving in order to spend minimal time in offensive e.g. "\xstance off\rwave my wand at target\rstance gua\r" (script if you wanted to grab the wand and/or set the target as part of the command).
e.g. script wand
put rummage in my pack %1 wand
put stance offensive
put wave my wand at %2
put stance guarded
put stow wand
and then ".wand gold troll" to grab a golden wand and wave it at the nearest troll.
"sort cluster wand in my pack" to keep track of the wands you have available to you or just set the flag for sorted view and look.
Once you've got the hang of using wands, you'll wonder how you ever tried to take a spell aiming trained character through their teens without them.
When you get to using your own bolt spells, you'll want something similar in the way of macros/script for them too.
DRUMPEL
Re: New Empath
06/23/2017 07:55 AM CDT
>Overall I'm relieved that my stats seem okay and I am roughly on the right track. I'll probably focus a bit more into the spirit realms and HP, and move down lores until later. MIU I might test but it just seems like such a hassle to find and keep track of wands when I've got 1700.
Years back I used to buy fresh wands from people. I'd stand outside the Landing bank and YELL every once in a while and use the amunet (crystal amulet) "Buying fresh wizard wands outside the bank for 2k, exluding silver and iron." Most wands won't sell for over 2k at the local pawnshops so a lot of people would sell them to folks buying them for 2k a pop.
Wands aren't difficult to get or keep track of. Any bolt/wizard wand I have (fresh ones I find I put in my backpack so I can get them duplicated or use as a last resort) I keep in my robe. I have a small skinning script I cobbled together that will stow the item in my left hand, get my dagger, skin the creature and pick up the skin should I succeed. I then move on. When I find a creature, I have 1 open hand (runestaff in my right) and I CHANNEL a cast of 1106 from offensive. Then I "get wand" and "wave wand" at the target until it's dead (1 to 3 waves), then I run my script .skin (creature) (skin type)
A couple of scripts or well setup macros and using wands is easy. It can be pretty easy to do even if you don't want to use a script or macro to help - you'll eventually get used to it.
Here's my normal activity when hunting once I come across a creature:
TARGET <creature> - I do this just in case another creature happens to walk into the room. The game defaults to the most recent target, so if something else walks in I'll automatically target it instead of my initial target. Defining my TARGET makes sure any simple attack command is directed at the creature I want.
STANCE OFFENSIVE
INCANT 1106 - I have 1106 currently setup to CHANNEL through the INCANT verb (INCANT SET CHANNEL 1106 - this setup 1106 to always be CHANNELed when I use INCANT)
If the creature isn't killed I move to using a wand:
GET WAND
WAVE WAND - do this until the target is dead
.skin <creature> <skin type> - this script will put me in defensive stance, stow my wand, remove my dagger, kneel, skin the target, stand, sheath dagger and get the skin if I succeeded and put the skin in my backpack
The best thing with using at least one open hand and CHANNEL with 1106 when you're younger and going against younger creatures, it's the native TD pushdown that 1106 gets. Every level a creature is under level 35, their TD is reduced by 1 point when you cast 1106. Hitting most like level targets, you're almost guaranteed a successful ward on each cast, plus the phantom points gained from CHANNEL and 1 open hand in offensive is a nice boost. 1 cast of 1106, any endroll of 150 guarantees 50 base damage plus anywhere from an extra 20-80+ damage depending on the two crits that follows.
I personally haven't used 1700 outside of a handful of times when I ran out of mana when I've been playing my sorcerer at young levels (level 10 or under). I can't stand the long RT and the paltry damage it delivers to rely on it at higher levels. If it's something you still like to use, great. Just be aware as you get older, creatures get more creative with their combat (CMANS and other spells) and trying to rely on 1700 can become dangerous.
-Drumpel
Years back I used to buy fresh wands from people. I'd stand outside the Landing bank and YELL every once in a while and use the amunet (crystal amulet) "Buying fresh wizard wands outside the bank for 2k, exluding silver and iron." Most wands won't sell for over 2k at the local pawnshops so a lot of people would sell them to folks buying them for 2k a pop.
Wands aren't difficult to get or keep track of. Any bolt/wizard wand I have (fresh ones I find I put in my backpack so I can get them duplicated or use as a last resort) I keep in my robe. I have a small skinning script I cobbled together that will stow the item in my left hand, get my dagger, skin the creature and pick up the skin should I succeed. I then move on. When I find a creature, I have 1 open hand (runestaff in my right) and I CHANNEL a cast of 1106 from offensive. Then I "get wand" and "wave wand" at the target until it's dead (1 to 3 waves), then I run my script .skin (creature) (skin type)
A couple of scripts or well setup macros and using wands is easy. It can be pretty easy to do even if you don't want to use a script or macro to help - you'll eventually get used to it.
Here's my normal activity when hunting once I come across a creature:
TARGET <creature> - I do this just in case another creature happens to walk into the room. The game defaults to the most recent target, so if something else walks in I'll automatically target it instead of my initial target. Defining my TARGET makes sure any simple attack command is directed at the creature I want.
STANCE OFFENSIVE
INCANT 1106 - I have 1106 currently setup to CHANNEL through the INCANT verb (INCANT SET CHANNEL 1106 - this setup 1106 to always be CHANNELed when I use INCANT)
If the creature isn't killed I move to using a wand:
GET WAND
WAVE WAND - do this until the target is dead
.skin <creature> <skin type> - this script will put me in defensive stance, stow my wand, remove my dagger, kneel, skin the target, stand, sheath dagger and get the skin if I succeeded and put the skin in my backpack
The best thing with using at least one open hand and CHANNEL with 1106 when you're younger and going against younger creatures, it's the native TD pushdown that 1106 gets. Every level a creature is under level 35, their TD is reduced by 1 point when you cast 1106. Hitting most like level targets, you're almost guaranteed a successful ward on each cast, plus the phantom points gained from CHANNEL and 1 open hand in offensive is a nice boost. 1 cast of 1106, any endroll of 150 guarantees 50 base damage plus anywhere from an extra 20-80+ damage depending on the two crits that follows.
I personally haven't used 1700 outside of a handful of times when I ran out of mana when I've been playing my sorcerer at young levels (level 10 or under). I can't stand the long RT and the paltry damage it delivers to rely on it at higher levels. If it's something you still like to use, great. Just be aware as you get older, creatures get more creative with their combat (CMANS and other spells) and trying to rely on 1700 can become dangerous.
-Drumpel
OM1E5GA
Re: New Empath
06/23/2017 09:10 AM CDT
<MIU I might test but it just seems like such a hassle to find and keep track of wands when I've got 1700.>
As others have said, 1700 won't continue to be useful much longer. Between the 5 sec of hard RT and the low amount of damage it does, it will become a liability as you encounter critters with higher max HP, lower RT, swarm, and/or use maneuvers. If you're stubborn, you might make it to level 25 with it, but beyond that you'll be taking forever killing critters with the CS version and being stuck in the hard RT when you're casting the bolt version will start getting you killed.
Wands really aren't that difficult to keep track of. If the ones you're using don't crumble when they run out of charges, just drop them when they do (sure, you can get a few silver from them at the pawn or get a mage to recharge them, but it's hardly worth it). Also, if you're using a runestaff, you can hold a wand in your left hand without any negative consequences... just put it away if you're CHANNELing a spell that gets a bonus from having an empty hand
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
As others have said, 1700 won't continue to be useful much longer. Between the 5 sec of hard RT and the low amount of damage it does, it will become a liability as you encounter critters with higher max HP, lower RT, swarm, and/or use maneuvers. If you're stubborn, you might make it to level 25 with it, but beyond that you'll be taking forever killing critters with the CS version and being stuck in the hard RT when you're casting the bolt version will start getting you killed.
Wands really aren't that difficult to keep track of. If the ones you're using don't crumble when they run out of charges, just drop them when they do (sure, you can get a few silver from them at the pawn or get a mage to recharge them, but it's hardly worth it). Also, if you're using a runestaff, you can hold a wand in your left hand without any negative consequences... just put it away if you're CHANNELing a spell that gets a bonus from having an empty hand
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
ZHOUY1
Re: New Empath
06/23/2017 04:05 PM CDT
There's been some discussion up-thread about Spell Aiming vs. putting points into more spells, but I think it's important to mention there is a very good third path that isn't stressed in the guides: put those points into Shield Use.
Runestaff users rely on parry defense, which can be severely compromised by stance pushdowns. Parry in offensive stance is reduced to 20% effectiveness. If you are caught in offensive stance or get the force-on-force penalty against multiple creatures, things can go bad very quickly. Block defense on the other hand is still 50% as effective in offensive stance, and it works much better against ranged attacks. Historically, most warding casters went with shield + brawling. These days runestaves are more prevalent but a shield is still the safer option.
Runestaff users rely on parry defense, which can be severely compromised by stance pushdowns. Parry in offensive stance is reduced to 20% effectiveness. If you are caught in offensive stance or get the force-on-force penalty against multiple creatures, things can go bad very quickly. Block defense on the other hand is still 50% as effective in offensive stance, and it works much better against ranged attacks. Historically, most warding casters went with shield + brawling. These days runestaves are more prevalent but a shield is still the safer option.
DIAGONALIZE
Re: New Empath
06/23/2017 06:33 PM CDT
>>1700 ought to seem like a real hassle to use compared to buying a wand each time you are selling off other loot in the pawn.
Interesting. With all the wand suggestions, maybe I should give it a try after all. I truly have been using 1700 like crazy, and it is a lot of RT.
So far my hunting routine has been to open with 1106 and then use 1700, switching between CS and aimed versions as I please. It has not felt too onerous so far but then I'm only 15th, I hunt with a friend who is also doing damage, and I intersperse hunting with time in town healing.
If I do go with MIU, should it be 1x or 2x (or in between)?
>>These days runestaves are more prevalent but a shield is still the safer option.
Thank you for the info. I had no idea. I will keep this in mind if I decide to be more tanky. The thing is, fighting with a sorcerer, I constantly want to push my CS up so I can compete. ;)
Thank you all again for such thorough responses.
Interesting. With all the wand suggestions, maybe I should give it a try after all. I truly have been using 1700 like crazy, and it is a lot of RT.
So far my hunting routine has been to open with 1106 and then use 1700, switching between CS and aimed versions as I please. It has not felt too onerous so far but then I'm only 15th, I hunt with a friend who is also doing damage, and I intersperse hunting with time in town healing.
If I do go with MIU, should it be 1x or 2x (or in between)?
>>These days runestaves are more prevalent but a shield is still the safer option.
Thank you for the info. I had no idea. I will keep this in mind if I decide to be more tanky. The thing is, fighting with a sorcerer, I constantly want to push my CS up so I can compete. ;)
Thank you all again for such thorough responses.
DRUMPEL
Re: New Empath
06/23/2017 08:48 PM CDT
>If I do go with MIU, should it be 1x or 2x (or in between)?
Ideally you want to hit around 25 MIU. I fit 25 ranks into my training by level 15, then I've just fit in a rank here and there and I'm at 32 ranks MIU at level 23 right now. 25 ranks seems to be the magic number to use aqua and gold wands without failing a wave (unless you're encumbered).
-Drumpel
Ideally you want to hit around 25 MIU. I fit 25 ranks into my training by level 15, then I've just fit in a rank here and there and I'm at 32 ranks MIU at level 23 right now. 25 ranks seems to be the magic number to use aqua and gold wands without failing a wave (unless you're encumbered).
-Drumpel
OM1E5GA
Re: New Empath
06/24/2017 02:00 AM CDT
<Ideally you want to hit around 25 MIU. I fit 25 ranks into my training by level 15, then I've just fit in a rank here and there and I'm at 32 ranks MIU at level 23 right now. 25 ranks seems to be the magic number to use aqua and gold wands without failing a wave (unless you're encumbered).>
To expand slightly, while you'll want to 1x, 2x, etc in most of your skills straight through to cap, some of them you'll just want to train to a certain number of ranks and stop. MIU, AS, MOC, Swimming, Climbing, and some of the lores are the main ones that are like this.
Train in MIU until you have enough ranks to successfully activate the wands you use without fail (25-30 ranks depending on which wands you use), then get a few more as you have spare TPs to make up for the penalty from being encumbered. You shouldn't ever need more then 35-40 ranks unless you get ahold of something with high level spells in it or fall into the trap of relying on magic items to get defensive spells and want longer durations.
<The thing is, fighting with a sorcerer, I constantly want to push my CS up so I can compete.>
If you want to make that an in character ambition, by all means go for it. Unfortunately, the disparity is most likely only going to grow, esp once your friend gets access to 425. His profession is geared towards maximizing CS to the point that most other sorcerer builds are considered mutant builds. Don't despair though, a well trained empath is easily one of the most dangerous and versatile hunters in Elanthia.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
To expand slightly, while you'll want to 1x, 2x, etc in most of your skills straight through to cap, some of them you'll just want to train to a certain number of ranks and stop. MIU, AS, MOC, Swimming, Climbing, and some of the lores are the main ones that are like this.
Train in MIU until you have enough ranks to successfully activate the wands you use without fail (25-30 ranks depending on which wands you use), then get a few more as you have spare TPs to make up for the penalty from being encumbered. You shouldn't ever need more then 35-40 ranks unless you get ahold of something with high level spells in it or fall into the trap of relying on magic items to get defensive spells and want longer durations.
<The thing is, fighting with a sorcerer, I constantly want to push my CS up so I can compete.>
If you want to make that an in character ambition, by all means go for it. Unfortunately, the disparity is most likely only going to grow, esp once your friend gets access to 425. His profession is geared towards maximizing CS to the point that most other sorcerer builds are considered mutant builds. Don't despair though, a well trained empath is easily one of the most dangerous and versatile hunters in Elanthia.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
KRAKII
Re: New Empath
06/24/2017 08:06 AM CDT
Be aware that runestaff users can Parry bolt-spell attacks (to include ball-spells, a sub-type), and I think they can also Parry Ranged/Thrown attacks but don't recall for certain.
It's handy.
It's handy.
LEAFIARA
Re: New Empath
06/24/2017 12:28 PM CDT
Just want to add that one perk to shields is that they won't be disarmed since they're in the left hand. Even if you don't end up training Shield Use, a good shield on its own will boost DS (which runestaves also do), so it's good to be prepared by having one in reserve when you're hunting creatures that can disarm.
DIAGONALIZE
Re: New Empath
06/25/2017 05:03 PM CDT
I tried out wand hunting last night and it worked out much better than I was expecting. So I paid a visit to the pawn shop and a friendly wizard and hopefully I can keep my supply up to keep trying.
Wands I picked up: aqua, gold, metal. These were all recommended by the wizard. Are there any other good ones to watch for? And does anyone have recommendations for about how many I should carry at once?
Wands I picked up: aqua, gold, metal. These were all recommended by the wizard. Are there any other good ones to watch for? And does anyone have recommendations for about how many I should carry at once?
OM1E5GA
Re: New Empath
06/25/2017 05:46 PM CDT
<And does anyone have recommendations for about how many I should carry at once?>
This depends on how long your hunts are and how close to the end of them your mana runs out. My empath tends to buy ten gold wants at a time and they last at least two hunts, but I tend to stay in the field until I either complete a task or an too encumbered to continue hunting.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
This depends on how long your hunts are and how close to the end of them your mana runs out. My empath tends to buy ten gold wants at a time and they last at least two hunts, but I tend to stay in the field until I either complete a task or an too encumbered to continue hunting.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
KRAKII
Re: New Empath
06/25/2017 09:09 PM CDT
Blue (chunk of ice) and crystal (acid) are also very good.
Silver & iron are probably not worth it, because they're Minor Shock.
You might also have reasonable success with twisted wands (Mana Disrupt), since Empaths are in one of the two Realms of Sorcery.
Silver & iron are probably not worth it, because they're Minor Shock.
You might also have reasonable success with twisted wands (Mana Disrupt), since Empaths are in one of the two Realms of Sorcery.
DVDMORSE
Re: New Empath
06/25/2017 09:30 PM CDT
>>Wands I picked up: aqua, gold, metal. These were all recommended by the wizard. Are there any other good ones to watch for? And does anyone have recommendations for about how many I should carry at once?
Gold, aqua, and metal are all good. I also especially like green coral (steam) and crystal (acid). Blue is also not bad. And if you want to search playershops, grooved ebony wands (which cast spell 111) are very nice, though they may be a little more expensive.
As to how many to carry, it depends on whether you are hunting where being a bit encumbered will matter. But the encumbrance charms in the Simucoin store only cost about a dollar for six uses, and the boost encumbrance rewards also really help. Personally, I always like to have at least 8 or so wands, often more. I do not like taking any chance on running out in mid-hunt.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
Gold, aqua, and metal are all good. I also especially like green coral (steam) and crystal (acid). Blue is also not bad. And if you want to search playershops, grooved ebony wands (which cast spell 111) are very nice, though they may be a little more expensive.
As to how many to carry, it depends on whether you are hunting where being a bit encumbered will matter. But the encumbrance charms in the Simucoin store only cost about a dollar for six uses, and the boost encumbrance rewards also really help. Personally, I always like to have at least 8 or so wands, often more. I do not like taking any chance on running out in mid-hunt.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
OM1E5GA
Re: New Empath
06/26/2017 01:08 AM CDT
<As to how many to carry, it depends on whether you are hunting where being a bit encumbered will matter. But the encumbrance charms in the Simucoin store only cost about a dollar for six uses, and the boost encumbrance rewards also really help.>
Halflings and gnomes might want to limit the number of wands they carry for encumbrance reasons, but no one else should noticing significant encumbrance issues from carrying ten wands. If they do, they need need to locker or sell some of the stuff they're carrying.
I'd never presume to tell others how to spend their money, but for characters of any race, I'd strongly recommend learning how to hunt without resorting to simucoin items (F2P accounts exempted). While they can certainly be quality of life improvements, there's no reason why anyone should NEED them to hunt (same with BOOST rewards). By all means buy a couple of the charms if you desire, but save them for when you find a 80+ lb box or are too encumbered with loot after a hunt to pass a climbing/swimming check on the way back to town.
Slightly off topic, but related to the above paragraph, I'd also strongly suggest learning survive in each new area you hunt without buff spells you don't know yourself before going into them glowing brighter then the sun. Some character builds (esp mutant builds) might have an extremely difficult time in certain areas without them, but most should be able to develop tactics with their own abilities that allow them to successfully hunt like level in the majority of places they go. This will serve you well if you find yourself hunting somewhere like River's Rest or Zul Logoth where outside spells aren't always available on demand.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Halflings and gnomes might want to limit the number of wands they carry for encumbrance reasons, but no one else should noticing significant encumbrance issues from carrying ten wands. If they do, they need need to locker or sell some of the stuff they're carrying.
I'd never presume to tell others how to spend their money, but for characters of any race, I'd strongly recommend learning how to hunt without resorting to simucoin items (F2P accounts exempted). While they can certainly be quality of life improvements, there's no reason why anyone should NEED them to hunt (same with BOOST rewards). By all means buy a couple of the charms if you desire, but save them for when you find a 80+ lb box or are too encumbered with loot after a hunt to pass a climbing/swimming check on the way back to town.
Slightly off topic, but related to the above paragraph, I'd also strongly suggest learning survive in each new area you hunt without buff spells you don't know yourself before going into them glowing brighter then the sun. Some character builds (esp mutant builds) might have an extremely difficult time in certain areas without them, but most should be able to develop tactics with their own abilities that allow them to successfully hunt like level in the majority of places they go. This will serve you well if you find yourself hunting somewhere like River's Rest or Zul Logoth where outside spells aren't always available on demand.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
DRUMPEL
Re: New Empath
06/26/2017 07:29 AM CDT
>Wands I picked up: aqua, gold, metal. These were all recommended by the wizard. Are there any other good ones to watch for? And does anyone have recommendations for about how many I should carry at once?
I go with aqua, gold, blue, crystal and metal for the most part. If I find one of these wands fresh of a critter, I make sure to put it in a container separate from the other wands so I can get it duplicated.
As for silver/iron wands, if I find them I'll just use them on the spot until all their charges are up and then just drop them. Minor shock hits with the same power as 1700 does in bolt form, so it's rather lack luster, but if it helps keep me from using other more useful wands for a bit, I'm okay with that. I don't think I'd recommend using silver/iron wands as you get older, but so far around level 25 and under creatures they can still be useful.
One other thing I like to do is finding a wizard that'll imbed ranger rods with 904. It hits a bit harder than 903 and you can still get 23 charges in a max mana capacity ranger rod that holds 92 mana.
As for how many to carry. I try to keep a minimum of 6 wands/rods on me when I plan on going out hunting. Wands specifically, 6-10. If I have full rods with 904, I'm okay with carrying around 2 or 3 a hunt.
Just put a request out (in game, on lich, on the forums in the Marketplace) that you're looking for 92 mana ranger rods or even fully charged ones with 903 or 904 (I like acid more than water) and I'm sure you'll find folks that can help you out there.
-Drumpel
I go with aqua, gold, blue, crystal and metal for the most part. If I find one of these wands fresh of a critter, I make sure to put it in a container separate from the other wands so I can get it duplicated.
As for silver/iron wands, if I find them I'll just use them on the spot until all their charges are up and then just drop them. Minor shock hits with the same power as 1700 does in bolt form, so it's rather lack luster, but if it helps keep me from using other more useful wands for a bit, I'm okay with that. I don't think I'd recommend using silver/iron wands as you get older, but so far around level 25 and under creatures they can still be useful.
One other thing I like to do is finding a wizard that'll imbed ranger rods with 904. It hits a bit harder than 903 and you can still get 23 charges in a max mana capacity ranger rod that holds 92 mana.
As for how many to carry. I try to keep a minimum of 6 wands/rods on me when I plan on going out hunting. Wands specifically, 6-10. If I have full rods with 904, I'm okay with carrying around 2 or 3 a hunt.
Just put a request out (in game, on lich, on the forums in the Marketplace) that you're looking for 92 mana ranger rods or even fully charged ones with 903 or 904 (I like acid more than water) and I'm sure you'll find folks that can help you out there.
-Drumpel
RATHBONER
Re: New Empath
06/26/2017 07:38 AM CDT
Green coral are fun, I particularly like the messaging on them, as well as effective.
If in Icemule you'll want the fire ones and not the cold ones, and vice versa if on Teras.
You may or may not find the sorcerer CS wands worth using. Try them out and see. You might get another 10 levels of decent use out of them or you might find your sorcerer CS is already too far behind par. Pass them to your partner is probably the best policy with those.
If you are using ball wands (metal and crystal are the treasure drop ones), train 1 rank of MOC for a bit of extra splashiness. Once you start using fire spirit train another. The effect is pretty small beyond that, so its probably not worth going past 2 ranks unless you are really into swarm busting.
My current rule of thumb is that if green coral is for sale I'm buying, if I have less than 10 wands total, I'm looking to buy, and if I have less than 3 of a preferred type for current hunting grounds, then I'm looking to buy that type. Iron and silver are too feeble once you are much past hunting rats, but pretty much anything else unless its the wrong element type for your hunting ground.
If in Icemule you'll want the fire ones and not the cold ones, and vice versa if on Teras.
You may or may not find the sorcerer CS wands worth using. Try them out and see. You might get another 10 levels of decent use out of them or you might find your sorcerer CS is already too far behind par. Pass them to your partner is probably the best policy with those.
If you are using ball wands (metal and crystal are the treasure drop ones), train 1 rank of MOC for a bit of extra splashiness. Once you start using fire spirit train another. The effect is pretty small beyond that, so its probably not worth going past 2 ranks unless you are really into swarm busting.
My current rule of thumb is that if green coral is for sale I'm buying, if I have less than 10 wands total, I'm looking to buy, and if I have less than 3 of a preferred type for current hunting grounds, then I'm looking to buy that type. Iron and silver are too feeble once you are much past hunting rats, but pretty much anything else unless its the wrong element type for your hunting ground.
KRAKII
Re: New Empath
06/26/2017 08:12 AM CDT
"As to how many to carry, it depends on whether you are hunting where being a bit encumbered will matter." -- DvdMorse
By way of comparison... when my Bard shifted from the Sheruvian Monastery (human-sized [<200 hp] mana batteries wearing no spells or armor) to the foothills outside of Illoke & then to the inside later (giant-sized [>350 hp, & trolls regenerate] spell wearers with maneuvers) I saw the need for reducing encumbrance by a bit.
Turns out I completely filled a 110-item locker on Four Winds just by shifting some blue & crystal wands out from my "carry around some mana battery" container, and still had enough to have some usable while in the wilds.
Having learned this lesson, I'm trying to work my way through reading/using up the giant stack of scrolls in there, also, and keep the "buying more scrolls" to a minimum. (I am aided in this by there being comparatively few really interesting spells showing up on scrolls, recently.)
.
So, yeah. If you find yourself carrying more than about 15-20 wands at a time, you may want to think about cutting back.
By way of comparison... when my Bard shifted from the Sheruvian Monastery (human-sized [<200 hp] mana batteries wearing no spells or armor) to the foothills outside of Illoke & then to the inside later (giant-sized [>350 hp, & trolls regenerate] spell wearers with maneuvers) I saw the need for reducing encumbrance by a bit.
Turns out I completely filled a 110-item locker on Four Winds just by shifting some blue & crystal wands out from my "carry around some mana battery" container, and still had enough to have some usable while in the wilds.
Having learned this lesson, I'm trying to work my way through reading/using up the giant stack of scrolls in there, also, and keep the "buying more scrolls" to a minimum. (I am aided in this by there being comparatively few really interesting spells showing up on scrolls, recently.)
.
So, yeah. If you find yourself carrying more than about 15-20 wands at a time, you may want to think about cutting back.
KRAKII
Re: New Empath
06/26/2017 08:14 AM CDT
Gold and metal wands (also iron & silver, but they're a lot less useful just because of their spell) also used NOT to crumble when you used their last charge...
...so if you know a friendly Wizard--and can maybe cough up an orb gem & grot potion--you could save an empty one of each and get them charged up to 40 waves apiece.
...so if you know a friendly Wizard--and can maybe cough up an orb gem & grot potion--you could save an empty one of each and get them charged up to 40 waves apiece.
DVDMORSE
Re: New Empath
06/26/2017 04:20 PM CDT
>>Halflings and gnomes might want to limit the number of wands they carry for encumbrance reasons, but no one else should noticing significant encumbrance issues from carrying ten wands. If they do, they need need to locker or sell some of the stuff they're carrying.
Well, that depends entirely on what else you are carrying. :) But, yes, my bolting cleric is a gnome, which may have colored my response a bit. And the truth is that he often carries closer to 20 wands anyway--but he has not been in areas that encumbrance has mattered much so far.
>>I'd never presume to tell others how to spend their money, but for characters of any race, I'd strongly recommend learning how to hunt without resorting to simucoin items (F2P accounts exempted). While they can certainly be quality of life improvements, there's no reason why anyone should NEED them to hunt (same with BOOST rewards). By all means buy a couple of the charms if you desire, but save them for when you find a 80+ lb box or are too encumbered with loot after a hunt to pass a climbing/swimming check on the way back to town.
Again, a matter of preference. No, you should not need them, but it is simpler than adjusting what you are carrying all the time. To me, spending 10 bucks a month on encumbrance charms and guild waivers is not a big deal. To someone else it might be. All a matter of preference.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
Well, that depends entirely on what else you are carrying. :) But, yes, my bolting cleric is a gnome, which may have colored my response a bit. And the truth is that he often carries closer to 20 wands anyway--but he has not been in areas that encumbrance has mattered much so far.
>>I'd never presume to tell others how to spend their money, but for characters of any race, I'd strongly recommend learning how to hunt without resorting to simucoin items (F2P accounts exempted). While they can certainly be quality of life improvements, there's no reason why anyone should NEED them to hunt (same with BOOST rewards). By all means buy a couple of the charms if you desire, but save them for when you find a 80+ lb box or are too encumbered with loot after a hunt to pass a climbing/swimming check on the way back to town.
Again, a matter of preference. No, you should not need them, but it is simpler than adjusting what you are carrying all the time. To me, spending 10 bucks a month on encumbrance charms and guild waivers is not a big deal. To someone else it might be. All a matter of preference.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
DIAGONALIZE
Re: New Empath
06/26/2017 11:11 PM CDT
Thank you all once again. I look forward to trying all these out. Now building a spreadsheet of wands and success calculations...
THROGG
Re: New Empath
07/08/2017 02:27 AM CDT
Just wanted to point out that if you get your strength disadvantaged gnome or halfling a disk, you can put other things besides boxes into them. Like wands. Stuff your disk full of wands at the start of a hunt. Toss them as they get used up to make room for a box or two.
If you go with a shield, remember that shields cannot parry bolt/ball spells outright, whereas runestaves can. On the other hand, as mentioned, shields can't be disarmed, nor can they be hit with weaponfire. If you decide to use a shield a lot, you might consider getting some brawling; an empty right hand along with your shield will add to physical DS. (This plus will vanish while you are holding a wand, though). Even if you mainly use a runestaff, some brawling would help your DS if you actually do get disarmed.
Mind you, at low levels being disarmed isn't something you really have to worry about.
If you go with a shield, remember that shields cannot parry bolt/ball spells outright, whereas runestaves can. On the other hand, as mentioned, shields can't be disarmed, nor can they be hit with weaponfire. If you decide to use a shield a lot, you might consider getting some brawling; an empty right hand along with your shield will add to physical DS. (This plus will vanish while you are holding a wand, though). Even if you mainly use a runestaff, some brawling would help your DS if you actually do get disarmed.
Mind you, at low levels being disarmed isn't something you really have to worry about.
THROGG
Re: New Empath
07/08/2017 02:37 AM CDT
Oh, and as far as lores are concerned ... you can certainly wait on those. In fact, AFAIC, they are totally optional. My empath currently has zero lores of any sort. There are 6 lores that affect empath spells, which is more than any other spell using profession. At one point I tried to train in a bunch of them, then got annoyed with how many MTPs I was using and dropped them all in favor of other things. Oddly enough, I did just fine without them.
RISHIB1
Re: New Empath
07/08/2017 03:01 AM CDT
One more wand to look for in player shops: faceted amethyst wands. Casts Empathic Assault.
Rishi
- Player of Kembal, who may or may not have a few of those wands for sale in his shop.
Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."
[Roll result: -2112 (open d100: 82)]
A giantman thief crouches and sweeps a leg at you, but only manages to trip himself.
Rishi
- Player of Kembal, who may or may not have a few of those wands for sale in his shop.
Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."
[Roll result: -2112 (open d100: 82)]
A giantman thief crouches and sweeps a leg at you, but only manages to trip himself.
DVDMORSE
Re: New Empath
07/08/2017 02:43 PM CDT
>One more wand to look for in player shops: faceted amethyst wands. Casts Empathic Assault.
Well, good point, and if you want to do it that way, slender ivory wands cast bone shatter, too, which I don't remember anyone mentioning.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
Well, good point, and if you want to do it that way, slender ivory wands cast bone shatter, too, which I don't remember anyone mentioning.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
