Just made an empath and got through the 30 days.
I had a couple questions about the advice on the guide: https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/A_beginner%27s_guide_to_playing_an_empath
What is 1.3x MIU for a Pure Warding Caster doing? It seems senseless. I could see more than 1x earlier to use wands quickly, and then letting it settle back to 1x, though this is not the advice given. To make matters more confusing, there aren't even any good wands in the treasure system. Note that this is the character with no spell aiming.
Considering the cost of Bone Shatter, this is the only pure I've had (so far) that has way way more than 1x Harness Power. Like 2.5x. I really cannot imaging finish hunts/bounties with 1106 reliably with less than 2x, and this is including society powers. Yet, this guide is nearly identical to the other pure guides, and says nearly nothing about training extra HP.
Here's what I've got:
Daidsempath (at level 12), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 40 8 8
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 66 14 14
Harness Power......................| 128 34 32 0 minutes
Spirit Mana Control................| 66 14 14
Perception.........................| 62 13 13
First Aid..........................| 114 28 28
Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 12 12
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 7 7
Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 12 12
I dropped a couple ranks of HP right before instant migration left, in case I need some emergency TPs for Climbing and the like. Perception could get +1. Overall I really like this build, much more than what's listed.
But I'm new to being an empath.
Comments?
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DAID
PFLATS
Re: Beginner's Guide
03/29/2016 08:18 AM CDT
I assume it's for rune staff DS. Without it, you'd be under 7 magic ranks per level. If that's the only reason, 0.3x mental mana control would be cheaper and mildly more useful. You'd get +1 mana regen at level 60! And it helps a few spells.
Early empath hunting is weird. If you have a line an alchemist to make you ivory wands, it's the easiest thing in the game. Otherwise, you've got one incredibly reliable spell that costs a relative ton and your plinkers.
I would go whole hog empath CS: bring spells to 103, 202, and 1126. Young critters are almost universally slow; stance dance them. Make a macro to stow your runestaff and double palm channel those suckers. Then pull out the staff and finish them with guarded 1700.
If you can get your hands on a mana flaring runestaff, it'll help a bunch too.
Early empath hunting is weird. If you have a line an alchemist to make you ivory wands, it's the easiest thing in the game. Otherwise, you've got one incredibly reliable spell that costs a relative ton and your plinkers.
I would go whole hog empath CS: bring spells to 103, 202, and 1126. Young critters are almost universally slow; stance dance them. Make a macro to stow your runestaff and double palm channel those suckers. Then pull out the staff and finish them with guarded 1700.
If you can get your hands on a mana flaring runestaff, it'll help a bunch too.
PFLATS
Re: Beginner's Guide
03/29/2016 08:24 AM CDT
Addendum: CS casters really aren't missing much in the 100s and 200s at low levels. Minor sanct is always helpful, as is stun relief, but that's really about it until you face other casters.
Manna will be missed, but that just gives you an excuse to beg it off some high-level empath or cleric who's swimming in 200s ranks and blessing lore.
Manna will be missed, but that just gives you an excuse to beg it off some high-level empath or cleric who's swimming in 200s ranks and blessing lore.
DAID
Re: Beginner's Guide
03/29/2016 11:53 AM CDT
>I assume it's for rune staff DS. Without it, you'd be under 7 magic ranks per level. If that's the only reason, 0.3x mental mana control would be cheaper and mildly more useful. You'd get +1 mana regen at level 60! And it helps a few spells.
Ah ha. Good eye! Not a very good reason in my opinion. The "8 ranks / level" marker is not so important. Anywhere from 4 to 11 is the same formulation for DS, and 0.3x per level is almost negligible.
No ivory wands, unfortunately. They're probably amazing though. My wife's new sorcerer, on the other hand, knows a sorcerer working on alchemical trinkets making twisted wands, who also has a wizard to duplicate them...
Definitely think your build would be pretty amazing. I did specifically want Minor Sanctuary for foraging, etc. The MnS I could go either way on, but the 4 ranks between extra 100s and extra 1100s worked out to around 1 CS (which was what I had overtrained at that time).
With over 60 mana (...times two...) the build I'm using also seems to work quite well. I felt with the Bone Shatter TD pushdown, more mana at a low level, which swings into more CS eventually, was a reasonable way to go.
Thanks for the reply.
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Ah ha. Good eye! Not a very good reason in my opinion. The "8 ranks / level" marker is not so important. Anywhere from 4 to 11 is the same formulation for DS, and 0.3x per level is almost negligible.
No ivory wands, unfortunately. They're probably amazing though. My wife's new sorcerer, on the other hand, knows a sorcerer working on alchemical trinkets making twisted wands, who also has a wizard to duplicate them...
Definitely think your build would be pretty amazing. I did specifically want Minor Sanctuary for foraging, etc. The MnS I could go either way on, but the 4 ranks between extra 100s and extra 1100s worked out to around 1 CS (which was what I had overtrained at that time).
With over 60 mana (...times two...) the build I'm using also seems to work quite well. I felt with the Bone Shatter TD pushdown, more mana at a low level, which swings into more CS eventually, was a reasonable way to go.
Thanks for the reply.
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
THROGG
Re: Beginner's Guide
03/31/2016 12:31 AM CDT
I used weapons with my warpath, but of course that's a different build entirely. Getting lots of MIU just for runestaff use is a waste; get more spells for better DS and you will up your CS at the same time. 2x in HP should be quite adequate; I'd say that anything over that is an inefficient use of TPs. Many empaths use wizard wands, and train in spell aiming, which is why they want higher MIU ranks. In your case this isn't an option, but you could use sorcerer wands. Your CS will of course be less than with an empath circle spell, but you can probably get some hits in if you underhunt a bit. You are basically using these to extend your mana/hunting time. And use arcane blast, or whatever that zero mana spell is called, to finish off severely wounded foes.
DAID
Re: Beginner's Guide
03/31/2016 06:03 AM CDT
>And use arcane blast, or whatever that zero mana spell is called, to finish off severely wounded foes.
Yes!!
I didn't sit down to do the math but it mostly seems better than 1101, minus the 5 second vs. 3 second time. Does actual injuries. Works against undead. And zero mana.
Looking at 1101 considering 1700 now exists might not be a bad idea. Anyone care to sit down and make a comparison of the two, assuming no lore training? I'm rather curious.
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Yes!!
I didn't sit down to do the math but it mostly seems better than 1101, minus the 5 second vs. 3 second time. Does actual injuries. Works against undead. And zero mana.
Looking at 1101 considering 1700 now exists might not be a bad idea. Anyone care to sit down and make a comparison of the two, assuming no lore training? I'm rather curious.
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
OM1E5GA
Re: Beginner's Guide
04/01/2016 12:22 PM CDT
I know I'm a bit late hopping on this thread, but I have to make a couple comments.
First, about the MIU training, I don't know what the author of the guide intended, but don't forget about bone and twisted wands. Even for a CS empath they're not likely to ever be a primary method of attack, but prior to level 20-25ish mana is at a premium for all pures. So it's good to be able to take advantage of everything you can to stretch that or get in that last spell or two to finish your bounty. The extra .3 is probably not a big deal unless you don't need the TPs for anything else.
Second, and much more important, if you're bringing your empath up in the Rest like I'm pretty sure you do with most of your characters, you're doing yourself a HUGE disservice by being a strictly CS empath. I would strongly recommend getting 2x in Spell Aiming in the very least and keeping an open mind towards getting Spirit Lore, Summoning and a rank in MIU at some point.
In the very early levels, in the Rest, 1106 is probably the better spell to use due to the lower casting cost and critters like bone golems that are pretty much made of bone or orcs and ogres that wear heavy armor and are just easier to kill with CS spells. However, once you hit the Hidden Vale most hunting grounds you'll be in from then on have trolls, undead, or both... and EVERY hunting ground after Witches/Slavers is stupidly friendly to anyone that can cast Fire Spirit (111). If you want to feel like a god in the Hidden Vale, the Jungle, Miasmal Forest, and Oteskas (ok, you'll want to use 1106 or 1110 on the hags, but wights and trolls fall quick to 111), get yer butt some training in Spell Aiming. For an added bonus, gold wands are sold off the shelf in town and will make you start chanting "fire" like Bevis! (yes, I've done that while hunting with my empath)
Starchitin (this is NOT an April Fools joke.... I hate that day)
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
First, about the MIU training, I don't know what the author of the guide intended, but don't forget about bone and twisted wands. Even for a CS empath they're not likely to ever be a primary method of attack, but prior to level 20-25ish mana is at a premium for all pures. So it's good to be able to take advantage of everything you can to stretch that or get in that last spell or two to finish your bounty. The extra .3 is probably not a big deal unless you don't need the TPs for anything else.
Second, and much more important, if you're bringing your empath up in the Rest like I'm pretty sure you do with most of your characters, you're doing yourself a HUGE disservice by being a strictly CS empath. I would strongly recommend getting 2x in Spell Aiming in the very least and keeping an open mind towards getting Spirit Lore, Summoning and a rank in MIU at some point.
In the very early levels, in the Rest, 1106 is probably the better spell to use due to the lower casting cost and critters like bone golems that are pretty much made of bone or orcs and ogres that wear heavy armor and are just easier to kill with CS spells. However, once you hit the Hidden Vale most hunting grounds you'll be in from then on have trolls, undead, or both... and EVERY hunting ground after Witches/Slavers is stupidly friendly to anyone that can cast Fire Spirit (111). If you want to feel like a god in the Hidden Vale, the Jungle, Miasmal Forest, and Oteskas (ok, you'll want to use 1106 or 1110 on the hags, but wights and trolls fall quick to 111), get yer butt some training in Spell Aiming. For an added bonus, gold wands are sold off the shelf in town and will make you start chanting "fire" like Bevis! (yes, I've done that while hunting with my empath)
Starchitin (this is NOT an April Fools joke.... I hate that day)
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
OM1E5GA
Re: Beginner's Guide
04/01/2016 12:48 PM CDT
Now that last post has me thinking I need to change my empath's training from OHE to OHB, pull a fire flaring whip from her locker, and making a playlist with the songs Fuel (Metallica), Breath (The Prodigy), and Firestarter (The Prodigy). Why oh why can't we broadcast audio through Stormfront....
Gimme fuel, gimme fire, gimme that which I desire!
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Gimme fuel, gimme fire, gimme that which I desire!
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
DAID
Re: Beginner's Guide
04/01/2016 03:36 PM CDT
The empath is actually not in RR, at least not at this point.
I appreciate and agree with a lot of your advice. I know the extra MIU isn't a problem, but it seemed arbitrary to tell beginners that for no specified reason.
I found the CS with twisted wands to be unacceptable for me, even with an essentially limitless supply of twisted wands.
Normally I go for Spell Aiming, so I wanted to try something different.
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
I appreciate and agree with a lot of your advice. I know the extra MIU isn't a problem, but it seemed arbitrary to tell beginners that for no specified reason.
I found the CS with twisted wands to be unacceptable for me, even with an essentially limitless supply of twisted wands.
Normally I go for Spell Aiming, so I wanted to try something different.
The deathbot will come back eventually.
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
