I am returning to the land after an 11 year sleep and thought I would try an empath. My plan is eventually to be a pure caster. I am presently at step 18 in Voln. I'm getting close to my one month, so what changes in stats or training would be recommended?
Stats: Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 92 (21) ... 92 (21)
Constitution (CON): 46 (-2) ... 46 (-2)
Dexterity (DEX): 82 (21) ... 82 (21)
Agility (AGL): 43 (7) ... 43 (7)
Discipline (DIS): 74 (7) ... 74 (7)
Aura (AUR): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Logic (LOG): 73 (11) ... 73 (11)
Intuition (INT): 81 (15) ... 81 (15)
Wisdom (WIS): 90 (20) ... 90 (20)
Influence (INF): 74 (17) ... 74 (17)
Skills:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 74 16
Physical Fitness...................| 124 32
Arcane Symbols.....................| 74 16
Magic Item Use.....................| 74 16
Spell Aiming.......................| 124 32
Harness Power......................| 124 32
Spirit Mana Control................| 74 16
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 74 16
Climbing...........................| 54 11
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 124 32
Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 3
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 13
Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 17
OOLONGLONG
OM1E5GA
Re: New empath help
02/10/2015 05:35 PM CST
Run yer stats through a spreadsheet or stat cruncher first, but I'd drop STR and WIS by ten each and put those points into CON and/or AGL. Since WIS is a prime stat fir empaths, it'll max out quickly and it would benefit you more in the long run to make that number smaller. STR and CON both factor into encumbrance and will prolly both grow slower for you (how much so depends on your race), but having a low CON will mean you take bigger crits when you get do hit where STR doesn't have much more benefit for pure casters.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
THROGG
Re: New empath help
02/10/2015 10:14 PM CST
Going by the strength bonus, I'm guessing some sort of elf, or perhaps a half elf. Indeed, you should drop wis and str a bit and pump up con and agl. Dex is decent, and if you are going for a pure caster and using empathic bolt (and perhaps wizard wands to conserve mana), Dex adds directly to spell aim AS; leave as is. Judging by the skills, you are around 14 trainings?
Eventually you will want to get your empath spell ranks rather higher than the other two circles, for CS based combat spells as well as reduced healing times, but for now start thinking about getting some more MjS spell ranks, especially if you plan on doing rescues. 130 and 225 are pretty mandatory for that activity. Once you have those, pump everything into empath spell ranks until you have 20+ over your level. I suspect your summoning lore is for the effect on spirit fire, but if you can get a decent supply of wizard wands you can delay training that for a while. it doesn't affect any elemental bolt spells.
I see zero transformation lore there, which is fine actually. Transformation is helpful but not mandatory (At cap I have none whatsoever, but then my gal is a total mutant so don't go by her.) 2x FA is nice because it will reduce your RT from using herbs and make the lack of transformation lore less of a problem. Keep up the PF training; empaths are the only pure caster profession that can train more than 1x in fitness, and we know that fitness is a strong factor in surviving maneuver attacks. I'm up to 274 ranks currently.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Eventually you will want to get your empath spell ranks rather higher than the other two circles, for CS based combat spells as well as reduced healing times, but for now start thinking about getting some more MjS spell ranks, especially if you plan on doing rescues. 130 and 225 are pretty mandatory for that activity. Once you have those, pump everything into empath spell ranks until you have 20+ over your level. I suspect your summoning lore is for the effect on spirit fire, but if you can get a decent supply of wizard wands you can delay training that for a while. it doesn't affect any elemental bolt spells.
I see zero transformation lore there, which is fine actually. Transformation is helpful but not mandatory (At cap I have none whatsoever, but then my gal is a total mutant so don't go by her.) 2x FA is nice because it will reduce your RT from using herbs and make the lack of transformation lore less of a problem. Keep up the PF training; empaths are the only pure caster profession that can train more than 1x in fitness, and we know that fitness is a strong factor in surviving maneuver attacks. I'm up to 274 ranks currently.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
OOLONGLONG
Re: New empath help
02/11/2015 07:02 AM CST
Thank you for the help. Sorry about leaving out important information in my opening post. Yes, my character is half-elf and now has just hit level 16.
Interesting I had recently changed my stats by dropping my con and agi while increasing strength because I was having so much trouble hitting things. Since I am going Voln and most of what I am hunting right now is undead, I find I need to hit it over the head.
I have been going back and forth between stopping at unPoison and going for web. Mana is still an issue while hunting tho.
Again, thanks for the replies. There is alot to learn with the changes since I've last been in the lands. Plus learning a new class.
Interesting I had recently changed my stats by dropping my con and agi while increasing strength because I was having so much trouble hitting things. Since I am going Voln and most of what I am hunting right now is undead, I find I need to hit it over the head.
I have been going back and forth between stopping at unPoison and going for web. Mana is still an issue while hunting tho.
Again, thanks for the replies. There is alot to learn with the changes since I've last been in the lands. Plus learning a new class.
RATHBONER
Re: New empath help
02/11/2015 08:38 AM CST
Setting prime stats low is a game for those experienced in the class to play. You trade power later for weakness now which is a bad trade off if you aren't comfortable at your current level. A stat change is expensive but affordable at high level so its actually possible to have stats that make for more fun and faster advancement at low level, and then fix them to optimum for cap when you get that far.
For hitting things over the head (and bolting them), you should get 211 and 215. Much more important than Unpoison, let alone Web.
For hitting things over the head (and bolting them), you should get 211 and 215. Much more important than Unpoison, let alone Web.
OOLONGLONG
Re: New empath help
02/11/2015 10:00 AM CST
Ah, it makes sense to go for 211 and 215. I guess I was thinking about being able to unpoison and undisease if needed. Luckily I can switch some spells easily right now. Thank you.
THROGG
Re: New empath help
02/11/2015 11:58 AM CST
>>Since I am going Voln and most of what I am hunting right now is undead, I find I need to hit it over the head. <<
Again, this is what wands are for; mana conservation and early reliance on pure magic to hunt. Also, boneshatter works against corporeal undead. You will soon get to the point where you don't need weapons to get by, if you aren't there already. Underhunt for now when looking for favor, so that you can ward the foe more easily, and pick lightly armored ones. Don't try to deal with plate mail wearing arch wights right now! Oh, and Symbol of Supremacy will buff up your CS against undead targets.
Now, while getting wands from the pawn shop can be a crap shoot and costs money, if you network and make friends with a wizard and a ranger, you can get wands pretty much for low or no cost. Ranger forages some sticks and imbues them into wands/rods, which the wizard then imbeds for you. In return, you heal them for free. On the other hand, once you get 211 and 215 you will be swinging a weapon almost as hard as any warrior; you may decide to go on using them for a while. You may even decide to go mutant! Warpath for a win with style, baby!
If you do spell have aiming, btw, the bolt form of web is a nice disabler for half the mana of the CS version. You do need 20 ranks of summoning lore for that, which you almost have. Sheesh! I had actually totally forgotten about that use of summoning lore; I have gotten used to simply using the brute force CS version of web, since I dropped spell aiming. (Because of the way the ROI of your CS vs target TD works, by the time you are 70 or so you should be pretty much autowarding most stuff your own level, as well as having enough mana to toss around boneshatter and wither fairly freely.)
You can certainly get fix stats potions later on, but why go to that expense? You can optimize your stats for efficient hunting for 30 days, power hunt your way to around title level, then switch back to a more "normal" stat placement for growth on day 29. Save yourself a pile of cash and/or a slew of Bounty points.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Again, this is what wands are for; mana conservation and early reliance on pure magic to hunt. Also, boneshatter works against corporeal undead. You will soon get to the point where you don't need weapons to get by, if you aren't there already. Underhunt for now when looking for favor, so that you can ward the foe more easily, and pick lightly armored ones. Don't try to deal with plate mail wearing arch wights right now! Oh, and Symbol of Supremacy will buff up your CS against undead targets.
Now, while getting wands from the pawn shop can be a crap shoot and costs money, if you network and make friends with a wizard and a ranger, you can get wands pretty much for low or no cost. Ranger forages some sticks and imbues them into wands/rods, which the wizard then imbeds for you. In return, you heal them for free. On the other hand, once you get 211 and 215 you will be swinging a weapon almost as hard as any warrior; you may decide to go on using them for a while. You may even decide to go mutant! Warpath for a win with style, baby!
If you do spell have aiming, btw, the bolt form of web is a nice disabler for half the mana of the CS version. You do need 20 ranks of summoning lore for that, which you almost have. Sheesh! I had actually totally forgotten about that use of summoning lore; I have gotten used to simply using the brute force CS version of web, since I dropped spell aiming. (Because of the way the ROI of your CS vs target TD works, by the time you are 70 or so you should be pretty much autowarding most stuff your own level, as well as having enough mana to toss around boneshatter and wither fairly freely.)
You can certainly get fix stats potions later on, but why go to that expense? You can optimize your stats for efficient hunting for 30 days, power hunt your way to around title level, then switch back to a more "normal" stat placement for growth on day 29. Save yourself a pile of cash and/or a slew of Bounty points.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
OM1E5GA
Re: New empath help
02/11/2015 12:26 PM CST
<<Interesting I had recently changed my stats by dropping my con and agi while increasing strength because I was having so much trouble hitting things. Since I am going Voln and most of what I am hunting right now is undead, I find I need to hit it over the head.>>
My advice was focusing on yer desire to become a pure caster. Once you're initial 30 days is over you won't have another chance to change your stats unless you can get ahold of a fixstat potion somehow (which probably won't be until near cap at the earliest, unless you want to waste RL money on it), so you'll want to set them for what you intend on doing with your character in the long run rather then immediate concerns.
<Setting prime stats low is a game for those experienced in the class to play. You trade power later for weakness now which is a bad trade off if you aren't comfortable at your current level.>
This is very true and bares repeating. It's why I suggested only dropping each of the two stats by 10 points rather then more. On the flip side, I think it's a mistake to set any stat lower then 50 to start unless you know what you're doing and have a plan to make up for it.
The WIS will grow quickly enough that you'll have made up for the difference in 20 or so levels, you'll just cap it a bit later then you would at it's current level. Setting your STR ten points lower, you'll enjoy the benefits of a slightly higher CON without sacrificing much since they both play a factor in several of the same systems.
<I have been going back and forth between stopping at unPoison and going for web.>
If you're going to be swinging into your 20's or 30's, get 211 and 215 ASAP, I'd even drop MnS down to 107 to get them sooner. If you're going to switch over to spells by or shortly after level 20, you have more flexibility in what you get first, but get Web first only if you intend on getting access to and using Web bolt.
<Mana is still an issue while hunting tho.>
Welcome to life as a pure. Once you have a bit more training in MIU and have decided to switch to pure casting, you'll want to keep some wizard wands on you for when you run out of mana. As long as yer not hunting around the Landing it shouldn't be difficult to afford them, but if you wait until you have enough mana to finish every hunt with a fried mind you'll be at or past level 50 before you give up your weapon (and speaking from experience, swinging a weapon as an empath is hugely frustrating starting at level 30 or so... esp compared with how easy hunting is as a pure caster)
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
My advice was focusing on yer desire to become a pure caster. Once you're initial 30 days is over you won't have another chance to change your stats unless you can get ahold of a fixstat potion somehow (which probably won't be until near cap at the earliest, unless you want to waste RL money on it), so you'll want to set them for what you intend on doing with your character in the long run rather then immediate concerns.
<Setting prime stats low is a game for those experienced in the class to play. You trade power later for weakness now which is a bad trade off if you aren't comfortable at your current level.>
This is very true and bares repeating. It's why I suggested only dropping each of the two stats by 10 points rather then more. On the flip side, I think it's a mistake to set any stat lower then 50 to start unless you know what you're doing and have a plan to make up for it.
The WIS will grow quickly enough that you'll have made up for the difference in 20 or so levels, you'll just cap it a bit later then you would at it's current level. Setting your STR ten points lower, you'll enjoy the benefits of a slightly higher CON without sacrificing much since they both play a factor in several of the same systems.
<I have been going back and forth between stopping at unPoison and going for web.>
If you're going to be swinging into your 20's or 30's, get 211 and 215 ASAP, I'd even drop MnS down to 107 to get them sooner. If you're going to switch over to spells by or shortly after level 20, you have more flexibility in what you get first, but get Web first only if you intend on getting access to and using Web bolt.
<Mana is still an issue while hunting tho.>
Welcome to life as a pure. Once you have a bit more training in MIU and have decided to switch to pure casting, you'll want to keep some wizard wands on you for when you run out of mana. As long as yer not hunting around the Landing it shouldn't be difficult to afford them, but if you wait until you have enough mana to finish every hunt with a fried mind you'll be at or past level 50 before you give up your weapon (and speaking from experience, swinging a weapon as an empath is hugely frustrating starting at level 30 or so... esp compared with how easy hunting is as a pure caster)
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
ZHOUY1
Re: New empath help
02/11/2015 01:25 PM CST
I feel that Strength should be set, at minimum, to whatever value allows it to rise to 100 by cap. When I made my character many years ago I didn't understand or appreciate growth rates as well as I do now -- I set Strength at 90 to start, and it was not enough. I should have set it to 92 (and have now after a fixstat). Strength grows excruciatingly slowly for empaths. If you ever want to swing a weapon or draw a bow, you want it to be as high as possible. It's easy to think now, "well, I'll be a pure caster so it doesn't really matter," but just maybe you'll decide next year that you're tired of hammering the Bone Shatter macro over and over and want to try something different. (Especially if you're in Voln, for having an easy way to hit non-corporeals).
Meanwhile I set Constitution at 20 to start and seldom felt I needed more. It grows much faster, and for the most part empaths aren't going to die from blood loss. It's maxed now after a fixstat, and it feels a little safer to have 100 instead of 70, but I still don't think you'll really notice the difference while leveling.
Anyway, the stats I would not ever think of dumping are:
STR, DEX, WIS -- helps you hit things, depending on what you use to attack
AGI, AUR -- helps you not get hit by things (physical, warding)
The others stats are up to preference.
Meanwhile I set Constitution at 20 to start and seldom felt I needed more. It grows much faster, and for the most part empaths aren't going to die from blood loss. It's maxed now after a fixstat, and it feels a little safer to have 100 instead of 70, but I still don't think you'll really notice the difference while leveling.
Anyway, the stats I would not ever think of dumping are:
STR, DEX, WIS -- helps you hit things, depending on what you use to attack
AGI, AUR -- helps you not get hit by things (physical, warding)
The others stats are up to preference.
THROGG
Re: New empath help
02/11/2015 10:50 PM CST
>>speaking from experience, swinging a weapon as an empath is hugely frustrating starting at level 30 or so.<<
Seriously? OK, combat as a pure caster gets pretty easy later on, but weapon use is certainly viable. Mind you, to be really good at it you need to make some sacrifices in other areas, but it's amusing.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Seriously? OK, combat as a pure caster gets pretty easy later on, but weapon use is certainly viable. Mind you, to be really good at it you need to make some sacrifices in other areas, but it's amusing.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
OM1E5GA
Re: New empath help
02/12/2015 12:01 AM CST
<but weapon use is certainly viable>
I didn't mean to imply it wasn't, but it does take a bit more knowledge of the system to do it well and they have to make a lot of sacrifices pure casters don't. It's definitely not something I'd suggest to someone as a first character or that's been away from GS for years.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I didn't mean to imply it wasn't, but it does take a bit more knowledge of the system to do it well and they have to make a lot of sacrifices pure casters don't. It's definitely not something I'd suggest to someone as a first character or that's been away from GS for years.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
THROGG
Re: New empath help
02/12/2015 12:44 AM CST
>>not something I'd suggest to someone as a first character or that's been away from GS for years.<<
Ah, no; probably not a wise recommendation.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Ah, no; probably not a wise recommendation.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
ETANNIDOMHNAILL
Re: New empath help
02/12/2015 05:47 PM CST
I'm just gonna leave this right here. This is essentially the path I followed by taking a pure caster from level 0 up to cap.
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Empath_training_suggestions_(saved_post)
Gretchen
Visit the GSGuide wiki, now home to merchant shop inventory lists! http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/GSGuide_Wiki
Meeting Nilandia: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Nilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Empath_training_suggestions_(saved_post)
Gretchen
Visit the GSGuide wiki, now home to merchant shop inventory lists! http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/GSGuide_Wiki
Meeting Nilandia: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Nilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
OOLONGLONG
Re: New empath help
02/16/2015 05:58 PM CST
I wanted to thank everyone for their suggestions. I did drop my strength a touch and my wisdom more. The biggest help (I believe) was changing my spells so I have both 211 and 215.
