Barely leveled so these are my level 19 skills and then my level 20 stats I mostly heal in town centers atm but I've been trying to hunt with her and figured if I do I'm probably bone shattering things while wielding my rune-staff then skinning the wreckage. I honestly have not tried to wand hunt or do much else yet and am not adverse to a total overhaul. originally I rushed to be 1x empath and wanted locate to aid in rescues. I imagine of the characters I have activated at the moment this one would make the best skinner but I'm not sure if it's worth the time/skill investment or not. I'm willing to try something unique with this character. I know this is like throwing my dinner at the floor and asking what sort of art it looks like. Any ideas and advice (with at least a modicum of backup) would be great. Thanks in advance.
(at level 20), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 62 13
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 93 21
Physical Fitness...................| 142 42
Arcane Symbols.....................| 93 21
Magic Item Use.....................| 93 21
Spell Aiming.......................| 93 21
Harness Power......................| 93 21
Elemental Mana Control.............| 5 1
Mental Mana Control................| 93 21
Spirit Mana Control................| 93 21
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 20 4
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 20 4
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 58 12
Perception.........................| 20 4
Climbing...........................| 58 12
Swimming...........................| 62 13
First Aid..........................| 142 42
Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 7
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 16
Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 19
Training Points: 45 Phy 61 Mnt
Race: Erithian Profession: Empath (shown as: Empath)
Gender: Female Age: 0 Expr: 470479 Level: 20
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 62 (1) ... 62 (1)
Constitution (CON): 63 (16) ... 63 (16)
Dexterity (DEX): 65 (7) ... 65 (7)
Agility (AGI): 65 (7) ... 65 (7)
Discipline (DIS): 75 (17) ... 75 (17)
Aura (AUR): 76 (13) ... 76 (13)
Logic (LOG): 80 (20) ... 80 (20)
Intuition (INT): 76 (13) ... 76 (13)
Wisdom (WIS): 85 (17) ... 85 (17)
Influence (INF): 84 (27) ... 84 (27)
Mana: 67 Silver: 0
The bar goes silent. Someone in the back calls out "That has got to be the worst song ANYONE has ever heard!"
You are awarded -100 experience.
YAVINE
JERAMYN2
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/18/2014 04:27 PM CDT
Drop armor use down to 8 ranks for double leathers unless you intend on going up to 35 for Brig, in my opinion.
Get rid of TWC completely. It's consuming a vast amount of training points that are better spent elsewher
Spell Aiming is useless at anything less than 2x. Try waving a wand and see.
I would reach for 1.5x Harness Power until you get higher level, for the extra mana.
Get rid of that one EMC point. EMC is a capped thing to worry about and a waste of TPs at your level.
I would try and only focus on 2 Lores for now. 3 is stretching yourself a bit thin, and you won't see great benefits unless they're bumped up a little.
Either 1x Perception or don't do it at all, IMO.
You mentioned you'd like to skin, try putting some of your freed up TPs in Survival. Just .5x maybe?
Empath circle should be at your level or higher at all times, for the CS. I would focus on Major Spiritual rather than Minor, as you'll get more Bolt AS spells in Major. I'd say Major Spirit until 219, then worry about Minor.
And as I said in the game, all of your magical skill ranks combined divided by 8 should be equal to your level or higher to get the DS from holding a Runestaff that you need to be effective.
-Tayre
Get rid of TWC completely. It's consuming a vast amount of training points that are better spent elsewher
Spell Aiming is useless at anything less than 2x. Try waving a wand and see.
I would reach for 1.5x Harness Power until you get higher level, for the extra mana.
Get rid of that one EMC point. EMC is a capped thing to worry about and a waste of TPs at your level.
I would try and only focus on 2 Lores for now. 3 is stretching yourself a bit thin, and you won't see great benefits unless they're bumped up a little.
Either 1x Perception or don't do it at all, IMO.
You mentioned you'd like to skin, try putting some of your freed up TPs in Survival. Just .5x maybe?
Empath circle should be at your level or higher at all times, for the CS. I would focus on Major Spiritual rather than Minor, as you'll get more Bolt AS spells in Major. I'd say Major Spirit until 219, then worry about Minor.
And as I said in the game, all of your magical skill ranks combined divided by 8 should be equal to your level or higher to get the DS from holding a Runestaff that you need to be effective.
-Tayre
THROGG
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/18/2014 11:15 PM CDT
Manipulation lore can be dropped; it doesn't do much right now for boneshatter.
She's using THW, not TWC; possibly still using weapons to hunt with. Note: THW skill is not needed to get the benefits of runestaff DS. If you aren't using a weapon to hunt, drop this skill and put the TPs into spell aiming and MIU for wands.
Runestaff DS formula assumes 8 magical skill ranks per level as a baseline. If I recall, the benfit caps at 11 ranks/level. Training skills such as MIU and AS to get runestaff DS is probably not warranted, as spell training will give you more DS. More ranks = better DS. Prime example is 102, you get +1 DS for every 2 ranks in this spell circle. On the other hand, if you want to get more duration from scrolls or imbedded items, these skills will help.
Not using a weapon? Double leather indeed is probably your best bet right now. You don't want to have to deal with spell failure at an unfortunate moment.
"For the female of the species
is more deadly than the male."
She's using THW, not TWC; possibly still using weapons to hunt with. Note: THW skill is not needed to get the benefits of runestaff DS. If you aren't using a weapon to hunt, drop this skill and put the TPs into spell aiming and MIU for wands.
Runestaff DS formula assumes 8 magical skill ranks per level as a baseline. If I recall, the benfit caps at 11 ranks/level. Training skills such as MIU and AS to get runestaff DS is probably not warranted, as spell training will give you more DS. More ranks = better DS. Prime example is 102, you get +1 DS for every 2 ranks in this spell circle. On the other hand, if you want to get more duration from scrolls or imbedded items, these skills will help.
Not using a weapon? Double leather indeed is probably your best bet right now. You don't want to have to deal with spell failure at an unfortunate moment.
"For the female of the species
is more deadly than the male."
YAVINE
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 03:43 AM CDT
okay so taking what you've both said and running with it I'm looking at the following:
armor 8 ranks
physical fitness 2x
spell aiming 2x
arcane symbols 1x
Magic item use 1x
harness power 1.5x
mana control spirit 1x
mana control mental 1x
major spirit spells: 19 ranks
minor spirit spells: 3 ranks
empath: 22 ranks = 1x
4 spirit summon lore
12 transformation lore
12 climb
13 swim
1x perception
2x first aid
.5x survival
With that I hit all of those and have 20 physical left over however I'm not sure about the uses of either of those lores on spells (or if I should be trying to 1x those in some way too or .5x)I might use or if I should dump MIU or spell aim and or even archane symbols in favor of more spells. with this I'd hit a migration or a fixskill situation as well. and as a side question is it true you get less xp if you transfer someone any as opposed to saying the specific injured body part?
The bar goes silent. Someone in the back calls out "That has got to be the worst song ANYONE has ever heard!"
You are awarded -100 experience.
armor 8 ranks
physical fitness 2x
spell aiming 2x
arcane symbols 1x
Magic item use 1x
harness power 1.5x
mana control spirit 1x
mana control mental 1x
major spirit spells: 19 ranks
minor spirit spells: 3 ranks
empath: 22 ranks = 1x
4 spirit summon lore
12 transformation lore
12 climb
13 swim
1x perception
2x first aid
.5x survival
With that I hit all of those and have 20 physical left over however I'm not sure about the uses of either of those lores on spells (or if I should be trying to 1x those in some way too or .5x)I might use or if I should dump MIU or spell aim and or even archane symbols in favor of more spells. with this I'd hit a migration or a fixskill situation as well. and as a side question is it true you get less xp if you transfer someone any as opposed to saying the specific injured body part?
The bar goes silent. Someone in the back calls out "That has got to be the worst song ANYONE has ever heard!"
You are awarded -100 experience.
ETANNIDOMHNAILL
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 09:54 AM CDT
<<and as a side question is it true you get less xp if you transfer someone any as opposed to saying the specific injured body part?>>
That's correct. It will also give you RT that you won't get if you target a specific area.
In regards to your training, I wrote a rather ginormous post a while back with almost all of my training suggestions for a pure caster empath. Someone saved it up on Krakiipedia, and you can read it here: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Empath_training_suggestions_(saved_post) Since that post was made, new mechanics appeared for mana controls that make them more desirable to train in, which you can read about here: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/MANA_(verb)
Good luck!
Gretchen
Visit the GSGuide wiki, now home to merchant shop inventory lists! http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/GSGuide_Wiki
Meeting Nilandia: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Nilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
That's correct. It will also give you RT that you won't get if you target a specific area.
In regards to your training, I wrote a rather ginormous post a while back with almost all of my training suggestions for a pure caster empath. Someone saved it up on Krakiipedia, and you can read it here: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Empath_training_suggestions_(saved_post) Since that post was made, new mechanics appeared for mana controls that make them more desirable to train in, which you can read about here: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/MANA_(verb)
Good luck!
Gretchen
Visit the GSGuide wiki, now home to merchant shop inventory lists! http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/GSGuide_Wiki
Meeting Nilandia: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Nilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
RORN
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 10:00 AM CDT
>Gretchen
Listen to this Lady, her advice solved my problem of my spellslinger usually winding up on a spit over a monster's campfire. :)
Tanivar Somakre
"Healing, you want it, you shall have it."
Listen to this Lady, her advice solved my problem of my spellslinger usually winding up on a spit over a monster's campfire. :)
Tanivar Somakre
"Healing, you want it, you shall have it."
JGALT22
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 10:18 AM CDT
A few thoughts:
As healing is what you do most you'll want transformation lore to be as high as possible in multiples of 3 because it reduces your healing roundtime by 1 second per 3 ranks. So right now you'd want 21 ranks, at level 22 you'd get 3 more, at level 25 you'd get 3 more, etc, etc.
Mana is a big limiting factor at low levels so I'd make a serious effort to be 2x in harness power until you start to feel comfortable hunting with your mana pool.
If you aren't in Icemule then pick up more first aid before any survival to aid your skinning. The 3rd rank of first aid (4 physical tps) is cheaper than the 1st rank of survival (3 ptp/ 2 mtp or 7 ptp when converting mental to physical). That's more debatable in Icemule when survival will help you, uh, survive in cold weather and reduce slippage on ice.
If hunting is a secondary pursuit to you, then spell aiming is an expensive luxury. Bolting/wand waving adds versatility, but Bone Shatter is quite good enough by itself and it costs far less mana. If you decide not to bolt then you can drop spell aiming completely and consider dropping spirit lore and MIU as well.
Going Bone Shatter only I'd prioritize spell research like this:
1. level + 2 ranks empath spells (at level 20, 22 empath ranks)
2. major spiritual to 203
3. minor spiritual to 120
4. major spiritual to 215
5. level + 21 ranks empath spells
After that you could either get the rescue spells at 130 & 225 or start to add spell aiming back into your repertoire.
As healing is what you do most you'll want transformation lore to be as high as possible in multiples of 3 because it reduces your healing roundtime by 1 second per 3 ranks. So right now you'd want 21 ranks, at level 22 you'd get 3 more, at level 25 you'd get 3 more, etc, etc.
Mana is a big limiting factor at low levels so I'd make a serious effort to be 2x in harness power until you start to feel comfortable hunting with your mana pool.
If you aren't in Icemule then pick up more first aid before any survival to aid your skinning. The 3rd rank of first aid (4 physical tps) is cheaper than the 1st rank of survival (3 ptp/ 2 mtp or 7 ptp when converting mental to physical). That's more debatable in Icemule when survival will help you, uh, survive in cold weather and reduce slippage on ice.
If hunting is a secondary pursuit to you, then spell aiming is an expensive luxury. Bolting/wand waving adds versatility, but Bone Shatter is quite good enough by itself and it costs far less mana. If you decide not to bolt then you can drop spell aiming completely and consider dropping spirit lore and MIU as well.
Going Bone Shatter only I'd prioritize spell research like this:
1. level + 2 ranks empath spells (at level 20, 22 empath ranks)
2. major spiritual to 203
3. minor spiritual to 120
4. major spiritual to 215
5. level + 21 ranks empath spells
After that you could either get the rescue spells at 130 & 225 or start to add spell aiming back into your repertoire.
THROGG
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 11:52 AM CDT
>>Bolting/wand waving adds versatility, but Bone Shatter is quite good enough by itself and it costs far less mana.<<
With certain provisos. For example, if you are in Voln, be advised that non corporeal undead are immune to boneshatter because ... well, they don't have any bones. Certain other types of critters are likewise immune. Once you get a big enough mana pool, you can routinely use wither on most such beasties, but until then wizard wands offer a means of dealing with these.
"For the female of the species
is more deadly than the male."
With certain provisos. For example, if you are in Voln, be advised that non corporeal undead are immune to boneshatter because ... well, they don't have any bones. Certain other types of critters are likewise immune. Once you get a big enough mana pool, you can routinely use wither on most such beasties, but until then wizard wands offer a means of dealing with these.
"For the female of the species
is more deadly than the male."
YAVINE
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 03:15 PM CDT
Okay I've read Gretchens main post and all of the replys from what I can see she's big on the versatility of spells so that given any situation you've got a plan. However as was pointed out early levels tps are tight and trying to 3 different lores in the current set up seems an impossibility let alone trying to add in .5 survival also there seems to be a break on perception gotten do 0 or 30 ranks or strait 1x. Also the harness power getting that to 1.5 let alone 2x would essentially eliminate one of the remaining 2 lores I do have.
If I do the following
pp 2x
arcane 1x
spell aim 2x
MIU 1x
Harness power 1.5x
mana control spirit 1x
mana control mental 1x
major spirit 19
minor spirit 3
empath 22
4 ranks spirit lore summon
21 ranks mental lore transformation
.5x climb
.5x swim
1x perception
2x first aid
With this set up I'm left with just 2 physical points at the start of level 20. I'm not sure if that's the best use of my skills or if it even gets me the 8x needed for the runestaff DS since I'm hazy on what does and does not work to obtain that. Also Gretchen mentioned doing spirit lore 1x and then a split on mental lore telepathy to 20 then going to 1x trans for trolls blood but another poster saying 3 ranks blocks (reason for just 21 ranks of transformation 4 ranks spirit split) for reduced healing RT.
If I try to 2x Harness power I'm left with reducing something else to try and make that. And survival is out the window for now, I don't hunt around mule so the first aid is a cheaper method atm.
The bar goes silent. Someone in the back calls out "That has got to be the worst song ANYONE has ever heard!"
You are awarded -100 experience.
If I do the following
pp 2x
arcane 1x
spell aim 2x
MIU 1x
Harness power 1.5x
mana control spirit 1x
mana control mental 1x
major spirit 19
minor spirit 3
empath 22
4 ranks spirit lore summon
21 ranks mental lore transformation
.5x climb
.5x swim
1x perception
2x first aid
With this set up I'm left with just 2 physical points at the start of level 20. I'm not sure if that's the best use of my skills or if it even gets me the 8x needed for the runestaff DS since I'm hazy on what does and does not work to obtain that. Also Gretchen mentioned doing spirit lore 1x and then a split on mental lore telepathy to 20 then going to 1x trans for trolls blood but another poster saying 3 ranks blocks (reason for just 21 ranks of transformation 4 ranks spirit split) for reduced healing RT.
If I try to 2x Harness power I'm left with reducing something else to try and make that. And survival is out the window for now, I don't hunt around mule so the first aid is a cheaper method atm.
The bar goes silent. Someone in the back calls out "That has got to be the worst song ANYONE has ever heard!"
You are awarded -100 experience.
THROGG
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 07:03 PM CDT
You don't need to train in both MMC and SMC right away from the start. Most spiritual casters train in SMC rather than MMC, so for purposes of mana sharing with others, just go with SMC for now. MMC can come later on, when TPs are not so scarce.
Empaths are faced with a bewildering choice of lores. Summoning? Transformation? Manipulation? Blessing? Telepathy? Research what each of these does for your spells, and decide which 2 seem most useful for now. You can branch out into others later on. Note: If you want to use empathic bolt, a mere 5 ranks of telepathy gets you an extra CS Damage cycle. I never went for more than that, since the combat was usually over by the time a third cycle was ready to occur, and the third cycle requires 20 ranks of lore. Too expensive for too little benefit, IMO. If you're in Voln and actually want to use empathy or sympathy spells on undead, on the other hand, you will need a potload of telepathy lore. Undead tend not to empathize with the living much :P
Magical skills = anything having to do with magic. Spells, any lores, any mana control, harness power, spell aiming, AS, MIU. It's almost impossible to be a pure caster and not have at least 8 ranks of magical skills. Note also that you can actually use a runestaff for defense even with fewer than 8 magical skill ranks per level; you just will get a lesser benefit.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Empaths are faced with a bewildering choice of lores. Summoning? Transformation? Manipulation? Blessing? Telepathy? Research what each of these does for your spells, and decide which 2 seem most useful for now. You can branch out into others later on. Note: If you want to use empathic bolt, a mere 5 ranks of telepathy gets you an extra CS Damage cycle. I never went for more than that, since the combat was usually over by the time a third cycle was ready to occur, and the third cycle requires 20 ranks of lore. Too expensive for too little benefit, IMO. If you're in Voln and actually want to use empathy or sympathy spells on undead, on the other hand, you will need a potload of telepathy lore. Undead tend not to empathize with the living much :P
Magical skills = anything having to do with magic. Spells, any lores, any mana control, harness power, spell aiming, AS, MIU. It's almost impossible to be a pure caster and not have at least 8 ranks of magical skills. Note also that you can actually use a runestaff for defense even with fewer than 8 magical skill ranks per level; you just will get a lesser benefit.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
RORN
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 10:27 PM CDT
The main problem a pure caster empath has is lack of manna. I switched from blades to spellslinger somewhere in the 50's and was always short of manna even at such a high level. It is a hassle you will have a real problem with as a caster.
Myself, I would say go with 1x Harness Power. 2x costs a horrible amount per rank which only gives you one manna. Wait on going 2x until you have more training points to work with. Just wait on manna regen as needed.
I got by with 10 Climbing and 5 Swimming for a long time twenty years ago. Try life with just a bit of the two skills and add more if you need it.
Arcane Symbols is important if you plan on using scrolls for DS since it adds to the spell duration. Think it's one minute added for every two ranks. Magic Item use works the same way for Small Statues and other magic items with spells.
Spiritual Manna Control is important if you want to be able to send and receive manna which can be handy when healing. 24 ranks will let you send and receive 95% of the manna that is sent. 5% is lost automatically. The skill has other benefits as you gain more ranks.
Mental Manna Control isn't of much use.
Summoning Lore is good to have once you have the Web spell since it improves the chance of your web bolt binding your target. Web Bolt, which you get use of at 20 Summoning ranks, only costs 9 manna and will inflict damage on, and likely bind and knock down your target, meaning it's not beating on you as you kill it. Very nice spell.
Transformation Lore's only real benefit is shortening the hard RT of healing spells. I'd say wait on it until you've gotten to level 40 or 50 and have more training points to play with.
Survival is worth going 0.5x with if you plan on skinning hides for silver and doing foraging.
Tanivar Somakre
"Healing, you want it, you shall have it."
Myself, I would say go with 1x Harness Power. 2x costs a horrible amount per rank which only gives you one manna. Wait on going 2x until you have more training points to work with. Just wait on manna regen as needed.
I got by with 10 Climbing and 5 Swimming for a long time twenty years ago. Try life with just a bit of the two skills and add more if you need it.
Arcane Symbols is important if you plan on using scrolls for DS since it adds to the spell duration. Think it's one minute added for every two ranks. Magic Item use works the same way for Small Statues and other magic items with spells.
Spiritual Manna Control is important if you want to be able to send and receive manna which can be handy when healing. 24 ranks will let you send and receive 95% of the manna that is sent. 5% is lost automatically. The skill has other benefits as you gain more ranks.
Mental Manna Control isn't of much use.
Summoning Lore is good to have once you have the Web spell since it improves the chance of your web bolt binding your target. Web Bolt, which you get use of at 20 Summoning ranks, only costs 9 manna and will inflict damage on, and likely bind and knock down your target, meaning it's not beating on you as you kill it. Very nice spell.
Transformation Lore's only real benefit is shortening the hard RT of healing spells. I'd say wait on it until you've gotten to level 40 or 50 and have more training points to play with.
Survival is worth going 0.5x with if you plan on skinning hides for silver and doing foraging.
Tanivar Somakre
"Healing, you want it, you shall have it."
THROGG
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/19/2014 11:15 PM CDT
>>Mental Manna Control isn't of much use.<<
It is definitely less useful than SMC, but it does have some effect. It modifies the warding margin on the CS cycles of empathic bolt, and increases the number of targets that can be affected by Sympathy. And a small benefit to mana regeneration. Fairly specialized benefits, however; as I mentioned, you can easily defer training in this until later. SMC is much more useful, in general.
I always tried to squeeze in extra ranks in harness power throughout my career as a pure caster. Yeah, an extra 1 mana per double train seems like a poor return for the TPs spent ... but at level 90 I was fully 2x and had an extra 90 mana. That's 6 more casts of wither, 15 of boneshatter. Not to be sneered at. By that time, I was warding my targets by a significant amount; CS based spells were my main attack form, and wands had become secondary.
Then I converted back to warpath, for the challenge :)
The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
It is definitely less useful than SMC, but it does have some effect. It modifies the warding margin on the CS cycles of empathic bolt, and increases the number of targets that can be affected by Sympathy. And a small benefit to mana regeneration. Fairly specialized benefits, however; as I mentioned, you can easily defer training in this until later. SMC is much more useful, in general.
I always tried to squeeze in extra ranks in harness power throughout my career as a pure caster. Yeah, an extra 1 mana per double train seems like a poor return for the TPs spent ... but at level 90 I was fully 2x and had an extra 90 mana. That's 6 more casts of wither, 15 of boneshatter. Not to be sneered at. By that time, I was warding my targets by a significant amount; CS based spells were my main attack form, and wands had become secondary.
Then I converted back to warpath, for the challenge :)
The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
RORN
Re: returning after 8 years, revisited empath
10/20/2014 12:09 AM CDT
>I always tried to squeeze in extra ranks in harness power throughout my career as a pure caster. Yeah, an extra 1 mana per double train seems like a poor return for the TPs spent ...
>THROGG
I'm 20 ranks shy of full 2x Harness Power at level 79. I trimmed it back some to bring other skills up a bit over the last few months. 306 manna instead of 326 <shrugs>. The added ranks of AS & MIU made it a nice tradeoff. Scroll DS spells now are a hour per cast with magic items just shy of that. :)
Tanivar Somakre
"Healing, you want it, you shall have it."
>THROGG
I'm 20 ranks shy of full 2x Harness Power at level 79. I trimmed it back some to bring other skills up a bit over the last few months. 306 manna instead of 326 <shrugs>. The added ranks of AS & MIU made it a nice tradeoff. Scroll DS spells now are a hour per cast with magic items just shy of that. :)
Tanivar Somakre
"Healing, you want it, you shall have it."
