Important note: this character will never be hunting alone. He is half of a duo that will be played together at all times (the other half being a pure bard), so bear that in mind. Now...
I'm just curious if anybody has experience with going very light on spell ranks as a bolting empath. My current plan on mine is to stop spell training for a while once I have 1130, 130, and 225 so that I can focus heavily on lores until I get to the thresholds I like. Those thresholds being: 57 transformation, 40 telepathy, 65 blessing, and fully trained in summoning. At that point I can cut down to training just the 1x blessing (or possibly 1x blessing and 1x manip - still undecided on that front) and start dumping points back into spell ranks. I am looking at stopping spell training until somewhere in the level 50-60 range, currently level 33 and 10 MnS short of those spell goals.
I cannot imagine that AS will be a problem with the combination of the bard stunning things with 1030, +60 AS from 211/215/1130 (+80 with 1007, if needed), and using web bolts when I have some summoning lore built up. Always having MnE spells and another character to split attacks up, plus the webs, plus more magical ranks for runestaff DS, seems like it should make the DS loss from spell ranks negligible.
So. If my empath does not need to worry about any disabling beyond his normal attack (web bolt), and is running as purely a bolt hunter, am I missing any really glaring negatives from the temporary lapse in spell training?
LEDBETTERM
TROUBLE13
Re: Light on the spells, heavy on the bolts!
02/17/2014 02:12 PM CST
With a build like that you can do just fine at 2x spell training or a bit under even. You'll want 40 ranks in both spirit circles for 140/240, and 1x in empath spells at the very least. Probably no need to rush for 140/240 so just get them in the order you want and by 80 or so. You could cap at 2x spell training using CS spells, it just seems a painful way to go for me, just watching all the missed casts by people make me cringe inside.
LEDBETTERM
Re: Light on the spells, heavy on the bolts!
02/17/2014 09:31 PM CST
The question is though, why do you think that I would need 1x empath at the very least if I am not going to use any CS based attacks?
TROUBLE13
Re: Light on the spells, heavy on the bolts!
02/17/2014 11:39 PM CST
>>The question is though, why do you think that I would need 1x empath at the very least if I am not going to use any CS based attacks?
You need to learn your spells better then:
1109 · Empathic Focus [FOCUS]
Duration: 1200 seconds + 60 seconds for every Empath spell rank known; cumulative
Type: Offense/Defense
The caster remembers past injuries and channels those memories into a sharp, short-lived focus increasing melee Attack Strength (AS) by +15, Spiritual Target Strength (TD) by +15, and Defense Strength (DS) by +25. The DS bonus is increased +1 for every 2 ranks of Empath spells known over 1109.
1130 · Intensity [INTENSITY]
Duration: 1200 seconds + 60 seconds for every Empath spell rank known; cumulative
Type: Offense/Defense
This spell allows the Empath to increase their intensity by providing +20 to both Attack Strength and Defense Strength (Bolt, Melee, and Ranged AS/DS), + 1 AS/DS for every two Empath spell ranks known beyond 30, capped at level.
You'll notice that the bonuses of these two spells continue to increase as you level and keep training in empath spells. Every level you gain 1 DS from either 1109 or 1130 as well as +1 AS every even level from 1130.
You need to learn your spells better then:
1109 · Empathic Focus [FOCUS]
Duration: 1200 seconds + 60 seconds for every Empath spell rank known; cumulative
Type: Offense/Defense
The caster remembers past injuries and channels those memories into a sharp, short-lived focus increasing melee Attack Strength (AS) by +15, Spiritual Target Strength (TD) by +15, and Defense Strength (DS) by +25. The DS bonus is increased +1 for every 2 ranks of Empath spells known over 1109.
1130 · Intensity [INTENSITY]
Duration: 1200 seconds + 60 seconds for every Empath spell rank known; cumulative
Type: Offense/Defense
This spell allows the Empath to increase their intensity by providing +20 to both Attack Strength and Defense Strength (Bolt, Melee, and Ranged AS/DS), + 1 AS/DS for every two Empath spell ranks known beyond 30, capped at level.
You'll notice that the bonuses of these two spells continue to increase as you level and keep training in empath spells. Every level you gain 1 DS from either 1109 or 1130 as well as +1 AS every even level from 1130.
LEDBETTERM
Re: Light on the spells, heavy on the bolts!
02/18/2014 12:20 AM CST
>>You need to learn your spells better then:
If we're going to take the thread in a less friendly direction, you need to read original posts better.
>>I cannot imagine that AS will be a problem with the combination of the bard stunning things with 1030, +60 AS from 211/215/1130 (+80 with 1007, if needed), and using web bolts when I have some summoning lore built up. Always having MnE spells and another character to split attacks up, plus the webs, plus more magical ranks for runestaff DS, seems like it should make the DS loss from spell ranks negligible.
At level 33 he is uphunting by a couple levels and cannot roll less than a 200+ on a stunned critter, without 1007 going. If his hunting partner uses 1007 he has almost exactly the same bonus to bolt AS as a level 60 wizard with 1x both MnE and MjE, at level 33, with empath/MjS only up to 1130/225. Those same critters would require about a 180 roll in order to hit him, when they manage to get an attack off at all.
So again, the entire point of this thread is - beyond the AS/DS of spell ranks, which are not needed in order for him to hunt, are there any other aspects of the lack of spell training during these levels that will cause real problems.
You gesture at a troll wraith.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at a troll wraith!
AS: +280 vs DS: +105 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +69 = +288
... and hit for 95 points of damage!
Massive blow obliterates the left knee.
The troll wraith falters as a sickly light flows freely down its leg.
The troll wraith is knocked to the ground!
The roaring ball of fire strikes a troll wraith, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 30 points of damage!
Strong hit rips arm from wrist to elbow.
The wound vanishes as the ethereal flesh swirls around in chaotic patterns.
Your mesille runestaff flares with a burst of flame!
... 35 points of damage!
Good hit!
Left shoulder is ripped from its socket then wriggles back into place.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
If we're going to take the thread in a less friendly direction, you need to read original posts better.
>>I cannot imagine that AS will be a problem with the combination of the bard stunning things with 1030, +60 AS from 211/215/1130 (+80 with 1007, if needed), and using web bolts when I have some summoning lore built up. Always having MnE spells and another character to split attacks up, plus the webs, plus more magical ranks for runestaff DS, seems like it should make the DS loss from spell ranks negligible.
At level 33 he is uphunting by a couple levels and cannot roll less than a 200+ on a stunned critter, without 1007 going. If his hunting partner uses 1007 he has almost exactly the same bonus to bolt AS as a level 60 wizard with 1x both MnE and MjE, at level 33, with empath/MjS only up to 1130/225. Those same critters would require about a 180 roll in order to hit him, when they manage to get an attack off at all.
So again, the entire point of this thread is - beyond the AS/DS of spell ranks, which are not needed in order for him to hunt, are there any other aspects of the lack of spell training during these levels that will cause real problems.
You gesture at a troll wraith.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at a troll wraith!
AS: +280 vs DS: +105 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +69 = +288
... and hit for 95 points of damage!
Massive blow obliterates the left knee.
The troll wraith falters as a sickly light flows freely down its leg.
The troll wraith is knocked to the ground!
The roaring ball of fire strikes a troll wraith, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 30 points of damage!
Strong hit rips arm from wrist to elbow.
The wound vanishes as the ethereal flesh swirls around in chaotic patterns.
Your mesille runestaff flares with a burst of flame!
... 35 points of damage!
Good hit!
Left shoulder is ripped from its socket then wriggles back into place.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
TROUBLE13
Re: Light on the spells, heavy on the bolts!
02/18/2014 02:13 AM CST
I guess it all depends on where and what you plan on hunting then. Not everything is going to have such a low bolt DS or stun or even be quite so easy. And minor elemental spells are only +35 DS, at some point you are going to want more either way. If you hunt only the easiest creatures you can probably make it up to 90 or so no problem without training a single additional empath spell beyond what you've got. If you hunt bandits any you'll want that extra DS, if you go hunting in RR around 50 you'll probably want to be up to 1x in empath spells, in the landing by about 60, if you ever decided to hunt the rift, the keen, or fire mages.
If your bolt AS is only 280, that puts it at 300 with 1007, my wizard who is 61 and still 6 ranks shy of being 1x in MnE has a bolt AS of 372, so no idea where your numbers on that come from.
With the bard as a hunting partner most of the time the loss of that DS isn't going to be an issue but there are going to be times where you'll miss it. You also bring up 1007 but if you are 1x in empath spells you'd have no need to run it and save your bard some mana. If you just hunt muddled-fried likely not an issue but if you do bounties it might be.
>>Those same critters would require about a 180 roll in order to hit him, when they manage to get an attack off at all.
No idea what kind of DS you have or what kind of AS you think those creatures have, I am seeing ASs of 330-360 for level 60 creatures. And at some point you are going to end up taking a shot while proned at the very least.
If your bolt AS is only 280, that puts it at 300 with 1007, my wizard who is 61 and still 6 ranks shy of being 1x in MnE has a bolt AS of 372, so no idea where your numbers on that come from.
With the bard as a hunting partner most of the time the loss of that DS isn't going to be an issue but there are going to be times where you'll miss it. You also bring up 1007 but if you are 1x in empath spells you'd have no need to run it and save your bard some mana. If you just hunt muddled-fried likely not an issue but if you do bounties it might be.
>>Those same critters would require about a 180 roll in order to hit him, when they manage to get an attack off at all.
No idea what kind of DS you have or what kind of AS you think those creatures have, I am seeing ASs of 330-360 for level 60 creatures. And at some point you are going to end up taking a shot while proned at the very least.
OM1E5GA
Re: Light on the spells, heavy on the bolts!
03/04/2014 02:47 PM CST
I know I'm a little late on this thread, but this is pretty close to what I'm doing with one of my empaths... except for the heavy lore training. I don't know about higher levels, but at 45 she does just fine solo hunting... even if she does go though wands like Scrumples went through tarts.
If you're going to stop training in the Empath circle at 1130, you should add Manipulation to the list of lores you intend on getting for the TD pushdown for the CS cycles with 1110. Otherwise those Telepathy ranks won't give you much benefit after a while (no point in getting extra cycles if you can't ward anything). Personally, I'd keep the empath circle at 1x even if you eventually stop training in the other two, both for 1110 and for the added benefits to 1109 and 1130.
Also, you don't say, but I hope that all those Blessing ranks are a post-cap goal or you're relying heavily on GoS abilities when hunting, cause otherwise, I can think of quite a few places those TPs could be put to better use pre-cap.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
If you're going to stop training in the Empath circle at 1130, you should add Manipulation to the list of lores you intend on getting for the TD pushdown for the CS cycles with 1110. Otherwise those Telepathy ranks won't give you much benefit after a while (no point in getting extra cycles if you can't ward anything). Personally, I'd keep the empath circle at 1x even if you eventually stop training in the other two, both for 1110 and for the added benefits to 1109 and 1130.
Also, you don't say, but I hope that all those Blessing ranks are a post-cap goal or you're relying heavily on GoS abilities when hunting, cause otherwise, I can think of quite a few places those TPs could be put to better use pre-cap.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
ZENNSUNNI
Re: Light on the spells, heavy on the bolts!
03/05/2014 11:34 AM CST
You will have no problems with this plan. Don't let the naysayers question you - this game is easy and all classes are OP now. I made a similarly radical (by old time standards) decision on my empath to stop training in spells at precisely this point while he hits his CM and MoC goals (eventually getting back to 2x spells in the mid 60s).
With outside spells you should be just fine DS'wise. All that being said, I agree with Starchitin that you should consider keeping empath spells at 1x. With such a training plan, you should easily be able to afford 2x lores (hell, you should be able to afford 2x/1x lores). The scaling benefits of the empath circle are ridiculous, and as Starchitin wisely points out, you'll benefit from them in your bolt spells. By your 50s you should have the TPs to basically do all the stuff you want and be fully 2x in spells, which is about when critters begin to get pretty nasty and you're gonna want the extra DS from the 100s as well as things like 1x PT so you don't get creamed by every maneuver under the sun.
Player of Kilshaar
With outside spells you should be just fine DS'wise. All that being said, I agree with Starchitin that you should consider keeping empath spells at 1x. With such a training plan, you should easily be able to afford 2x lores (hell, you should be able to afford 2x/1x lores). The scaling benefits of the empath circle are ridiculous, and as Starchitin wisely points out, you'll benefit from them in your bolt spells. By your 50s you should have the TPs to basically do all the stuff you want and be fully 2x in spells, which is about when critters begin to get pretty nasty and you're gonna want the extra DS from the 100s as well as things like 1x PT so you don't get creamed by every maneuver under the sun.
Player of Kilshaar
