I'm wondering if anybody can get me any insight with a spell casting wizard should be? I started this wizard off and on and usually my poor wizard is out of mana when hunting undead (yes, the wizard is in Voln) and not sure if I'm doing something wrong mechanically.
The wizard is using a runestave and just casts away.
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 53 (1) ... 53 (1)
Constitution (CON): 48 (-1) ... 48 (-1)
Dexterity (DEX): 98 (34) ... 98 (34)
Agility (AGI): 86 (23) ... 86 (23)
Discipline (DIS): 58 (-1) ... 58 (-1)
Aura (AUR): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Logic (LOG): 80 (15) ... 80 (15)
Intuition (INT): 72 (11) ... 72 (11)
Wisdom (WIS): 86 (18) ... 86 (18)
Influence (INF): 62 (6) ... 62 (6)
Mana: 114 Silver: 0
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 108 26
Arcane Symbols.....................| 152 52
Magic Item Use.....................| 152 52
Spell Aiming.......................| 152 52
Harness Power......................| 152 52
Elemental Mana Control.............| 108 26
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 70 15
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 3 0
Perception.........................| 50 10
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 25 5
Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 15
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 20
Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 25
Any suggestions or is it just that tough this early on and running out of mana this early in training is normal? Thankfully I keep wands, but that gets expensive after a bit.
Thank you.
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
FALAN
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Wizard help?
05/29/2015 06:56 PM CDT
I had a write-up with several questions about your hunting style to help narrow down the issue. Then I realized that you haven't learned 516-Mana Leech.
Learn it. Use it. Come back if you are still having issues with Mana during your hunts.
-- Robert aka Faulkil
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
Learn it. Use it. Come back if you are still having issues with Mana during your hunts.
-- Robert aka Faulkil
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
BLACKKOBOLD
Re: Wizard help?
05/29/2015 07:36 PM CDT
Aside from the mana leech issue, it is recommended that leveling pure wizards maintain 400s and 500s equal to their level. This is particularly important at your level because you could have 425 right now resulting in a gain of 25 bolt AS. Raising your major elemental circle from 15 to 25 would add another 5 AS. 425 will also increase your CS, making mana leech much easier to use on a broader range of targets. With mana leech and a higher bolt AS you should find it easier to work with your mana pool, which is very good with a 30 mana stat and 2x harness power.
~Taverkin
~Taverkin
FALAN
Re: Wizard help?
05/29/2015 10:06 PM CDT
Thank you both. I'll see what I can do about keeping everything at my level and learn mana leech
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
FALAN
Re: Wizard help?
05/29/2015 10:43 PM CDT
A silly question:
So.. 3x spells per level, aye? While I can 3x, I can't do it and have 2x in harness.. but I'm thinking 3xing is probably better anyway from the sounds of mana leeching.
Thanks again. Yeah I know.. I'm a noob with wizard stuff heh
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
So.. 3x spells per level, aye? While I can 3x, I can't do it and have 2x in harness.. but I'm thinking 3xing is probably better anyway from the sounds of mana leeching.
Thanks again. Yeah I know.. I'm a noob with wizard stuff heh
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Wizard help?
05/29/2015 11:13 PM CDT
I think 3x spells is a post cap goal. At 2x cap I'm still only at 2.75x and I was much closer to 2x up until cap. I'm a big fan of 2x HCP personally (even with mana leech).
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
TROUBLE13
Re: Wizard help?
05/30/2015 01:35 AM CDT
Is hunting all you want to do with this wizard or are you wanting to make them an enchanter? If all you want to do is hunt, you can lower your wizard spells down to 11 or 13 and be just fine. As mentioned already for a hunting wizard your level in MjE and MnE then whatever is left gets put into wizard spells. Unless you are actually using a lot of scrolls and magic items I'd suggest cutting those back to 1x. If you want them to be an enchanter I'd suggest you wait a bit, get 430, aim to have 540 at 40, then work your wizard spells up to 40-50 ranks where you can start doing 7x projects. Depending on how much you hunt you could start a 4-7x project when you have 30 wizard ranks and be a high enough level in time to complete it without any issues.
DOUG
Re: Wizard help?
05/30/2015 02:19 AM CDT
In addition to above, if points are really tight and a concern against your other goals, you should strongly consider 1x training in MIU and AS, 1.5x training in Harness (counter-intuitive, I know) and dropping fire lore training. If you feel compelled to train in a lore, convert to Air lore and reap the benefits of Tonis Bolt.
Those points (because they're the 2x point category) should easily allow you to maintain a 3x pace at levels 30 and beyond.
The gains in spell capabilities, extra damage from higher AS / CS, and a few tactical adjustments (like leeching - already mentioned a couple times) and Tonis Bolt will help stretch your mana out greatly, even though you'll have a smaller mana pool than right now.
And one final word - you likely will find you're forced to choose - remain constrained a bit by mana until 40 to 42 trainings, or move locations to ease the mana constraints even further (approaching but not quite meeting zero constraint for a bit) by hunting specific creatures that are 'squishy' to wizards and have allies that can be 'ignored' but are 'mana batteries' for leech.
Doug
Those points (because they're the 2x point category) should easily allow you to maintain a 3x pace at levels 30 and beyond.
The gains in spell capabilities, extra damage from higher AS / CS, and a few tactical adjustments (like leeching - already mentioned a couple times) and Tonis Bolt will help stretch your mana out greatly, even though you'll have a smaller mana pool than right now.
And one final word - you likely will find you're forced to choose - remain constrained a bit by mana until 40 to 42 trainings, or move locations to ease the mana constraints even further (approaching but not quite meeting zero constraint for a bit) by hunting specific creatures that are 'squishy' to wizards and have allies that can be 'ignored' but are 'mana batteries' for leech.
Doug
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Wizard help?
05/30/2015 08:11 AM CDT
Since I haven't posted it in awhile and haven't expanded it to the point where I want to put it on the Wikki (maybe this summer) here is my general recommendations/notes for a casting wizard that also wants to enchant. I also included my notes on the gains/benefits of training in each rank of spells.
For a pure caster interested in enchanting I would consider the following:
- Armor use to 4 for Full leathers (ASG6), 8 for Reinforced leathers (ASG7), 15 for double leathers (ASG8).
- PF until you have your max health (1x closer to cap)
- 1x Arcance Symbols (or 2x)
- 2x MIU
- 2x Spell Aiming
- 2x Harness Power (some folks feel this is excessive but I strongly recommend it)
- 1x EMC (as you get near multiples of ten feel free to overtrain it by 1 or 2 ranks as you get 1 additional mana recovery for every 10 Ranks you have).
- at some point 10 ranks in SMC to facilitate trading mana with Spirit casters. At capped I still find 10 ranks is sufficient.
Spell training:
- Target to have 513 at 13th
- Target to have 425 at 25th
- Target to have 516 as early as you can manage (16th-20th)
- Target to be 1x in Wizard by 30th then 1x Wizard after that.
Other points:
- Don't spend training points on Elemental Lores until later in life unless you want to do so for RP reasons or just because you really want to.
- Remaining training points wherever you would like. I went 1x perception, got climbing to 50, and trading to 40 pretty early on.
- At some point a few ranks of MOC to help your ball spell splash. Elemental Lore is also a factor but in a different way.
Major Enchanting Projects
- Start 5x enchanting at 30
- Start 6x enchanting at 50
- Start 7x enchanting at 70
- Add 20 levels for fusion/holy enchanting requirements (so 5x fusion at 50, 6x fusion at 70, etc).
Lots of people enchant earlier than this - this is my personal recommendation based on not wanting to waste time on failed projects.
Major Elemental Gains
- .25 DS for 503 (capped at level)
- .50 DS for 507 (capped at level)
- .50 AS for 513 (capped at level)
- CS gains for Leech, Immolation, Ice Patch, Stone Fist
- Increased RT reduction with Haste
- Increased mana that can be leeched
- Increased success with Charge item
- Bonus to Elemental Disjunction
- Bonus to Enchanting (but not as much as Wizard ranks)
Wizard Rank Gains
- .25 DS from 905
- 1.0 DS from 913
- CS increase for Weapon Fire
- Bonus to Enchanting
Minor Elemental Gains
- .50 AS/CS for every rank over 25 (caps at 75 ranks)
- .50 DS for every rank known over 30, capped at level
- Bonus to lockpicking via 403 and opening boxes via 407
- Bonus to disarming via 404 and magically disarming via 408
- Bonus % to find a trap when using 416, Piercing Gaze
-- Faulkil
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
For a pure caster interested in enchanting I would consider the following:
- Armor use to 4 for Full leathers (ASG6), 8 for Reinforced leathers (ASG7), 15 for double leathers (ASG8).
- PF until you have your max health (1x closer to cap)
- 1x Arcance Symbols (or 2x)
- 2x MIU
- 2x Spell Aiming
- 2x Harness Power (some folks feel this is excessive but I strongly recommend it)
- 1x EMC (as you get near multiples of ten feel free to overtrain it by 1 or 2 ranks as you get 1 additional mana recovery for every 10 Ranks you have).
- at some point 10 ranks in SMC to facilitate trading mana with Spirit casters. At capped I still find 10 ranks is sufficient.
Spell training:
- Target to have 513 at 13th
- Target to have 425 at 25th
- Target to have 516 as early as you can manage (16th-20th)
- Target to be 1x in Wizard by 30th then 1x Wizard after that.
Other points:
- Don't spend training points on Elemental Lores until later in life unless you want to do so for RP reasons or just because you really want to.
- Remaining training points wherever you would like. I went 1x perception, got climbing to 50, and trading to 40 pretty early on.
- At some point a few ranks of MOC to help your ball spell splash. Elemental Lore is also a factor but in a different way.
Major Enchanting Projects
- Start 5x enchanting at 30
- Start 6x enchanting at 50
- Start 7x enchanting at 70
- Add 20 levels for fusion/holy enchanting requirements (so 5x fusion at 50, 6x fusion at 70, etc).
Lots of people enchant earlier than this - this is my personal recommendation based on not wanting to waste time on failed projects.
Major Elemental Gains
- .25 DS for 503 (capped at level)
- .50 DS for 507 (capped at level)
- .50 AS for 513 (capped at level)
- CS gains for Leech, Immolation, Ice Patch, Stone Fist
- Increased RT reduction with Haste
- Increased mana that can be leeched
- Increased success with Charge item
- Bonus to Elemental Disjunction
- Bonus to Enchanting (but not as much as Wizard ranks)
Wizard Rank Gains
- .25 DS from 905
- 1.0 DS from 913
- CS increase for Weapon Fire
- Bonus to Enchanting
Minor Elemental Gains
- .50 AS/CS for every rank over 25 (caps at 75 ranks)
- .50 DS for every rank known over 30, capped at level
- Bonus to lockpicking via 403 and opening boxes via 407
- Bonus to disarming via 404 and magically disarming via 408
- Bonus % to find a trap when using 416, Piercing Gaze
-- Faulkil
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
FALAN
Re: Wizard help?
05/30/2015 08:30 AM CDT
Wow.. Lots of good stuff. Thank you everybody!
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
DOUG
Re: Wizard help?
05/30/2015 11:08 AM CDT
Pretty solid, Robert. I'd fundamentally say our usual point we differ on remains, and I like it as much as I did the first time I saw it from you.
I will say, though, that there's a question that probably should be asked / answered. I tried to cover part of it with the Beginner's Guide to Wizard work I helped with.
What's the difference between a pure, an enchanter and a warmage? The last one's easy, the first two kind of blend together at some point. But is there a distinguishing characteristic in your view? I think it's largely order of spells learned, and de-emphasizing MIU (which frankly isn't a big deal in enchanting anyway).
Thoughts?
Doug
I will say, though, that there's a question that probably should be asked / answered. I tried to cover part of it with the Beginner's Guide to Wizard work I helped with.
What's the difference between a pure, an enchanter and a warmage? The last one's easy, the first two kind of blend together at some point. But is there a distinguishing characteristic in your view? I think it's largely order of spells learned, and de-emphasizing MIU (which frankly isn't a big deal in enchanting anyway).
Thoughts?
Doug
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Wizard help?
05/30/2015 11:26 AM CDT
>> What's the difference between a pure, an enchanter and a warmage?
I put more emphasis on the wizard spells (full 1x) for an enchanter. Also I would likely cut back to 1x MIU/1x AS and put less emphasis on 1x EMC for a non-enchanter and put more of those points into additional spells early on.
The 'enchanter' path I have works well for non-enchanters as well but you tend to get a more defensive wizard (with the 1x wizard spells) vs. a more offensive wizard with emphasis on the major/minor elemental spell. I prefer the 'defensive' wizard build even without enchanting but completely understand and agree the focus on early AS is a solid path.
Either version would likely be decent at enchanting but I think the 'enchanter' path puts just a little more emphasis on making sure you have the skills to do the harder projects.
I think the spell training targets are solid for any casting wizard (513/425/516).
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
I put more emphasis on the wizard spells (full 1x) for an enchanter. Also I would likely cut back to 1x MIU/1x AS and put less emphasis on 1x EMC for a non-enchanter and put more of those points into additional spells early on.
The 'enchanter' path I have works well for non-enchanters as well but you tend to get a more defensive wizard (with the 1x wizard spells) vs. a more offensive wizard with emphasis on the major/minor elemental spell. I prefer the 'defensive' wizard build even without enchanting but completely understand and agree the focus on early AS is a solid path.
Either version would likely be decent at enchanting but I think the 'enchanter' path puts just a little more emphasis on making sure you have the skills to do the harder projects.
I think the spell training targets are solid for any casting wizard (513/425/516).
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
DOUG
Re: Wizard help?
05/30/2015 11:48 AM CDT
I very much agree with this, and would love to hear if any of the younger master mages (heh. . . been waiting to pull my beard on that one a while!) have a differing opinion.
I called the three subtypes 'wizard', 'magus' and 'warmage'. Original, I know. But to the extent you can help reinforce that there is a difference, even if subtle, between the first two, I would welcome it - I think it would help make the profession more clear.
Thanks for sharing!
Doug
I called the three subtypes 'wizard', 'magus' and 'warmage'. Original, I know. But to the extent you can help reinforce that there is a difference, even if subtle, between the first two, I would welcome it - I think it would help make the profession more clear.
Thanks for sharing!
Doug
BLACKKOBOLD
Re: Wizard help?
05/31/2015 05:35 PM CDT
<I very much agree with this, and would love to hear if any of the younger master mages (heh. . . been waiting to pull my beard on that one a while!) have a differing opinion.
<I called the three subtypes 'wizard', 'magus' and 'warmage'. Original, I know. But to the extent you can help reinforce that there is a difference, even if subtle, between the first two, I <would welcome it - I think it would help make the profession more clear.
<Thanks for sharing!
I agree on the spell order. Unless you want to enchant as early as possible, I would stick with maintaining 400s/500s at level with the rest in wizard spells while leveling.
<The 'enchanter' path I have works well for non-enchanters as well but you tend to get a more defensive wizard (with the 1x wizard spells) vs. a more offensive wizard with emphasis on the <major/minor elemental spell. I prefer the 'defensive' wizard build even without enchanting but completely understand and agree the focus on early AS is a solid path.
I certainly agree on the importance of maintaining a healthy DS, and I happen to be 1x in wizard spells myself, but I can't agree with prioritizing DS over AS as a wizard at any level. Higher AS produces faster kills. Faster kills are safer and more mana efficient. And overall our defenses tend to be quite good, I'd say. Still, the difference we're talking is fairly small either way. By level 50 we're talking about exchanging about 13 AS for about 13 DS. Not a big deal. The important point is to get 513, 516, and 425 ASAP.
I also have to disagree (and agree instead with Doug!) on the issue of lore training. While it is mostly useless and expensive, I don't think aiming for 24 ranks in air lore and perhaps a handful of fire lore ranks is a bad investment. I wouldn't say you need to get those 24 ranks ASAP, but Tonis bolt, -1s off haste, +2 slots for your disk, and better splash effect on your fireballs would cost you less than 2 spell research ranks for anyone above 2x spell research (which should be all wizards with the exception of warmages!). After that I wouldn't touch lore again until the post-cap.
~Taverkin
<I called the three subtypes 'wizard', 'magus' and 'warmage'. Original, I know. But to the extent you can help reinforce that there is a difference, even if subtle, between the first two, I <would welcome it - I think it would help make the profession more clear.
<Thanks for sharing!
I agree on the spell order. Unless you want to enchant as early as possible, I would stick with maintaining 400s/500s at level with the rest in wizard spells while leveling.
<The 'enchanter' path I have works well for non-enchanters as well but you tend to get a more defensive wizard (with the 1x wizard spells) vs. a more offensive wizard with emphasis on the <major/minor elemental spell. I prefer the 'defensive' wizard build even without enchanting but completely understand and agree the focus on early AS is a solid path.
I certainly agree on the importance of maintaining a healthy DS, and I happen to be 1x in wizard spells myself, but I can't agree with prioritizing DS over AS as a wizard at any level. Higher AS produces faster kills. Faster kills are safer and more mana efficient. And overall our defenses tend to be quite good, I'd say. Still, the difference we're talking is fairly small either way. By level 50 we're talking about exchanging about 13 AS for about 13 DS. Not a big deal. The important point is to get 513, 516, and 425 ASAP.
I also have to disagree (and agree instead with Doug!) on the issue of lore training. While it is mostly useless and expensive, I don't think aiming for 24 ranks in air lore and perhaps a handful of fire lore ranks is a bad investment. I wouldn't say you need to get those 24 ranks ASAP, but Tonis bolt, -1s off haste, +2 slots for your disk, and better splash effect on your fireballs would cost you less than 2 spell research ranks for anyone above 2x spell research (which should be all wizards with the exception of warmages!). After that I wouldn't touch lore again until the post-cap.
~Taverkin
