I think I am going to change to 1x ambush and pick up 2x physical fitness, 1x first aid and 1x survival.

I wouldn't 2x ambush early on. It's easy enough to pick up ambush ranks along the way. No matter your ambush ranks, sniping and aiming is pretty awful in the beginning, no matter your training path. At cap and nearly 2x'd ambush, I still do not hit the target 100% of the time. The extra AS is nice, but if you have equipment and arrows for your level, you will rarely need the extra oomph (which does not factor in right away, anyway, so that's another argument to wait and save the points).

I wouldn't 2x PF, either, although I recognize that Halflings have lower health than the Dark Elves that I usually play.

You -will- need to work on climb and swim, I'd say .5x each (as it lends towards Redux, but .3x each is the bare minimum).

As far as skinning, RATHBONER'S advice makes sense. 604 is very handy, but it's not so easy to use each time when a young ranger. Technique and kill spot goes a long way towards pelt quality, but still.. I'd probably take the advice.

I'm not so good with the stats anymore, but I will point out that the tiny races suffer tremendously with encumbrance. Arrows get heavy. Your DEX is going to be good because a) Halfling and b) grows quickly for rangers. STR might be more of an issue, and CON. However, I think you can probably go 20 trainings with a short bow, to counter the deficiencies, before you will start to need the stronger DF of a composite or long bow.

This will leave you with extra points, I believe. Where you will want them, is a matter of broad opinion.

What I will suggest? Straight up the 600 series, then pick up a 100 spell as the points become available, AT LEAST until you have 618, although, personally, I'd try to push to 625 (and some might even say 630 to get your animal companion) before trying to work in some more 100 spells. My goal has been, in GS4 at least, 120/640 by 60 trainings.

Mana share? Truly, at cap, I have none. Most other casting professions will trade a couple shots of 602/618 for whatever they got. Spell durations are SO much better than what they used to be. Sure, it's nice to be doing massies in the park and all that jazz, and if you really see that as a big part of your RP, then yes, you should train in it. Also, it's significant in imbuing sticks/wiregrass, so there's that (my cap ranger is TERRIBLE at imbuing, because of that aforementioned lack of mana share).

Last but not least, at least consider intermittent ranks of Combat Maneuvers, if for nothing else, cunning defense and general defense against bandits and certain creatures. I'm a little biased on this one, I'll admit, because I've always been hybrid (mutant) archery -and- hurling (since I took up archery at least), and CM factors into Hurling AS. At some point in your career, you are going to want combat maneuver training.

Otherwise, I think it might help us help you if you express what you had in mind for your ranger, what your goals were. That's all finer points, mind you. The most common phrase in this neck of the woods is this: It's pretty hard to screw up a ranger. ;-)

Good luck!

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~ Bill, Coyote.

The Black Diamond Masquerade Ball: http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Quests%60Sagas%60Events/Current%20and%20Upcoming%20Events/thread/1675348#

>Great advice! Thank you both so very much. Essentially what I would like to be is a little halfling that shoots things in the face from the shadows! I don't know how archery really works, and it is a little scary that you say you aren't able to hit things at level 100 with 2x ambush! I am going 2x PF because I've joined Sunfist and figured the extra stamina would probably be a good idea. I would really like to add more climbing, but just don't seem to have the TPs to do it until level 20 or so.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I usually hit what I'm aiming for, and that's the right eye (eyes are the hardest to hit). I'm just saying it's not 100% of the time.

Probably Radeek's player can tell you more about Sunfist and stamina and archery. My younger archer is in Sunfist (halfway through), and I simply do not use the short duration sigils because .. I do not like to have to keep up with all of that nonsense (I can't be bothered with something with a 60 second duration, I can barely manage flipping between two aspects of 650 at cap). So, for that? I'm not good to ask.

HOWEVER.

He's 30'ish. And he does - fair - in the warcamps, strictly through dropping a vine and sniping from the shadows. Part of that is my RP stubbornness to have him using a longbow when he's probably not grown into it yet. The other part is my RP insistence that he acts like his elder and aims for the eye, when he would be fine using a composite bow and aiming for the head.

Climb and swim? I can't recall off the top of my head if there are areas that require notable ranks early on - but you are going to want -some- of both before you title (20). 10 ranks each would be ideal, but at least 5 ranks of each. In fact... I want to say that you won't be able to master Sunfist if you can't travel to Zul Lugoth and I'm -almost- certain the path to there would be better with some climbing ranks. Maybe that's on the Elven Nations side, and maybe I'm just wrong.

*

>What level do you think I could switch to shooting arrows? I've heard anywhere from 12 to 20!

Right away. Archery is viable from level 0. My little archer has never done anything but, but I will admit that I underhunted with him quite a bit, partially because I wanted him to be self-cast and partially because I went after daggerbeaks and cockatrices for their feathers to make fletchings for him to make his own arrows.

Sniping? No, not so much. Ease into that. Or, if you HAVE to snipe, then you'll want to underhunt a little bit. Start thinking about sniping once you learn 617. Even then, you will be more effective in outdoor hunting areas, and there will always be certain creatures that are super perceptive. I think it was a couple levels after he learned 617 that he was able to snipe pretty decently, so I'm going to say.. 20'ish trainings.

The thing about sniping at an early level, is that it adds 2 seconds (1 for aiming, 1 for being hidden) that often creates more vulnerability than it protects from. If you get pulled out of hiding, that extra 2 seconds could be the difference between stancing back to defensive and getting your head chopped off.

I strongly suggest starting off with a short bow. I also strongly suggest learning to fletch (see: Artisan Skills), as the experience gain will help you advance - and - you can use e-bladed arrows at 10 trainings, and if they are master fletched, they are the cheapest 5x weapons in the game.

Now that we have a better idea of what you're going for, I'm sure you'll get some more feedback.

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~ Bill, Coyote.

The Black Diamond Masquerade Ball: http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Quests%60Sagas%60Events/Current%20and%20Upcoming%20Events/thread/1675348#

OK, life as a sunfist archer. It's good. I hunted as a voln archer until my early 90's. As luck would have it Sunfist became an option about the time I could learn no more in the bowels. I agree with Bill in that I only use the long duration sigils. I bring up the short duration sigils only when I'm in an invasion or for some reason I really need the extra AS. The biggest benefit for sunfist with me was the capped hunting ground no matter where you went. I'm landing based and prefer to stay there.

I did not snipe until post cap, I was always an open archer. Now I only snipe when I solo hunt in places like Walkars Woods, or I want to stand around town unnoticed. I use it more for RP than combat functionality. I've even considered dropping it altogether.

TP's for sniping rangers can be very tight. I do not play what would be considered a "magical" ranger. However, as an open archer I went around 1.3-1.5 in spells. My reasoning for this was survive-ability during invasions, I loved 140 for just that reason, and I justified this by not spending the points on Stalk and Hide. I do however have quite a bit of MIU and invisibility amulets could serve if I wished to remain incognito or do some scouting plus my own rods imbued by a wizard.

Remember as well that you gain an AS bonus from both your bow and your arrows, so at level 10 you should be using 4x bows and 4x arrows. Keep in mind that even though you can hold and fire these items you won't get the full "8X" bonus until you are of enough trainings to use 8x weapons. E-bladed wooden arrows are fine against living creatures but you'll want to acquire or fletch some 4x-5x arrows that are blessable for use against the undead. You WILL lose arrows. I still lose at least 3-4 a day. Take up fletching, it's time consuming but 5x arrows are nice.

For your bow, as a halfling you'll probably never be able to use a longbow without penalty. I'd start with a short bow and then go to composite and stay there. The difference between composites and longbows isn't really that much and if you're properly trained you won't see much difference. Roundtime is life or death for archers.

Now, here's where I differ from most people. I fully train ambush the entire way through life. As a matter of fact, when I leveled the first things I trained in were Ranged, Perception, and Ambush. Granted, you don't see benefits until after your 40th training in it, but once you title and that AS bonus starts kicking in you'll love it. It's expensive and sacrifices may have to be made in other areas from time to time but I've always felt it worth the cost.

I haven't seen anyone mention armor so I'll touch on it. I worked up to brig ASAP and stayed in that until level 70 or so then went up to hauberk. FGB was a lot cheaper then and that's what I wore. With prices being what they are now that may not be an option for you. If you plan on staying a sniper, and you're good at it, or if you plan on being a more magical ranger then hauberk might not be for you. I know some snipers who use doubles, or even less, and they do just fine.

>What level do you think I could switch to shooting arrows? I've heard anywhere from 12 to 20!

Ranged is viable from day one. You'll miss a lot, or even do small amounts of damage on hits and your aiming will be horrid, but so is everyone's at that level. Don't aim at anything until around title or so. You'll grow into ranged the same as warriors grow into their chosen weapon. You won't be able to hide well so just train in it and don't use it until your 15th training or so, and even then you'll need to choose the less perceptive critters for a good while.

Sniping isn't so much about how you hunt, but what you choose to hunt. In my opinion sniping is a post 50 training goal. I have done it with some of my other characters from day one but it can be a pain in the rear. As Bill said, getting pulled out of hiding can be a real death dealer.

It's important to understand that it's darned hard to screw up a ranger. You can do just about anything with one, they're a very forgiving class.

General Radeek Andoran
Drakes Vanguard
Defender of Wehnimer's Landing
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq




Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

As I said, I was an open archer until post cap. I had toyed around with sniping much earlier, when ranged was first rolled in, but I found firing from the open much more effective so I dropped it. Remember too that dodge training helps your DS as does lore training. That's the best thing about rangers, we have a multitude of options. While we'll probably never be able to claim to be the very best at any one thing we can be very good at a number of things. That to me is the appeal of being a ranger.

General Radeek Andoran
Drakes Vanguard
Defender of Wehnimer's Landing
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq




Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

You have 5 stat changes. Start off with high STR and use them towards the end of your 30 days to see what sort of strength you can work with then. Its tough managing encumberance on a halfling and you might well find you don't want it much below 100, but you have those stat changes to allow you to test this sort of thing out.

You don't have to stand around in offensive all the time. Critters act on a fixed schedule which tends to be quite long at low level. Let a critter attack you and miss while you are in defensive, and then you'll have time for some free shots.

Once you have a few levels you can use your spells to get the first strike, but its not necessary to get first strike on critters at low level.

>It is something my mentor taught me when I first started (Turgen, Lord of Ditches and Pollywogs, best mentor ever), and have used without pause ever since.

Now there's a fun topic. Who was everyone's mentor?

Sepher's was Juraviel Gauntlet (whom my bard far later borrowed his last name from). While not a ranger (his player's prior main was a high level ranger), he taught Sepher all about hunting and helped him particularly a lot with ranger spells -- how they worked, when to use them. Many of the basics he taught me way back, I still teach to new rangers today.

One of my earliest memories of him was teaching Sepher how to hunt wraiths in the attic of the Abandoned Inn -- particularly how both PCs and creatures stanced. He also told me that once I learned 613, I'd have a much easier time warding their spells. I hated those damn things, as I think they were the first creature I hunted that casted spells at me, had a fairly high DS (or so I imagined), and I couldn't hide at all from.

Super nice guy. Even though he wasn't around for very long after helping me out, I've never forgotten about him (though he has popped in a couple times for a while over the years).

~Brian, Sepher's player

A lot of different people influenced Rad, but he never really had a mentor. Rad was waraxe and shield before ranged came out, but the very day it was released a number of us converted right away. I guess we were all pretty much self taught when it came to that style of combat. I do remember the very first archery contest though. It was GM run and the GM would gen critters and you had to hit them in the neck. Each round the critters got older and older. Rad went 10 for 10 with critters far stronger than he was and for winning I got my choice of a ranged weapon and quiver, I still have both. After that a lot of people came to Rad for training advice even though I don't think he had trained any differently than they did. In a way I guess you could say he became a mentor more than he was actually mentored.

General Radeek Andoran
Drakes Vanguard
Defender of Wehnimer's Landing
Black Raider of the Mir'Sheq




Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

>Eugenids... Or some such spelling.

Eugenides.

Great, great character. I was hoping he'd still be around when I returned earlier this year.

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~ Bill, Coyote.

The Black Diamond Masquerade Ball: http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Quests%60Sagas%60Events/Current%20and%20Upcoming%20Events/thread/1675348#