Paladin Training 05/21/2017 03:06 PM CDT
Hello,

I have a few questions that hopefully some more experienced Paladin players can answer.

1) Is the Minor Circle really worth it? With 101, 103, 107 easy to come by, are 115, 118 and 120 worth the training points? Instead the points could go towards lores.

2) What are the best CMANS to pick up for Shield/OHB?
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 05/21/2017 03:15 PM CDT
>> 1) Is the Minor Circle really worth it? With 101, 103, 107 easy to come by, are 115, 118 and 120 worth the training points? Instead the points could go towards lores.

I think so, especially later. I know I'm really glad I have 120!

>> 2) What are the best CMANS to pick up for Shield/OHB?

My current CMANs and SMANs (Shield points) at training 93:


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 1
Disarm Weapon disarm 2
Feint feint 5
Specialization I wspec1 5
Combat Toughness toughness 1
Surge of Strength surge 2
Tainted Bond tainted 1

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 3


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 5
Shield Bash bash 5
Shield Push push 1
Prop Up prop 2
Shield Forward forward 3
Shield Spike Focus spikefocus 2
Shield Spike Mastery spikemastery 2
Block the Elements eblock 2
Protective Wall pwall 2
Steely Resolve resolve 1

Available Shield Training Points: 2

Read back a few posts and there is already some discussion on these.

-- Robert
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 05/21/2017 04:04 PM CDT
I trained my pally up to 140. I like the Zealot style. At cap he has 1640 and 140.

As for shield/cmans here is what I have.

Surge, Feint, Wspec, and Sbash are probably what I would recommend to every paladin.

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 4
Combat Focus focus 3
Feint feint 3
Specialization I wspec1 4
Surge of Strength surge 3

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Medium Shield Focus mfocus 5
Shield Bash bash 4
Shield Charge charge 5
Shield Forward forward 3
Block the Elements eblock 3
Shield Strike strike 4
Phalanx phalanx 5

Chad, player of a few
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 05/21/2017 07:58 PM CDT
Thanks to you both for the replies.

I think I am going to skip the minor spiritual circle in favor of doing lores and see how it goes. The additional defensive gain from 120 just isn't that strong to me in an era where spells across all cricles are fairly easy to obtain via MIU / AS.

I will use both of your CMAN lists as a template.
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 05/22/2017 03:50 AM CDT
Minor spirit is essential if you hunt the rift as you can only self spell.

Also minor spirit does help in boosting your paladin cs somewhat.

Spirit strike is very handy as well. Other than 25 religion there isn't s whole lot lores will do for ya compared to flat DS and TD boosts.


As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/09/2017 10:12 PM CDT
A bit late on this, but my paladin didn't learn 120 until right before this fixskill rolled over (he had his from last year). He's level 65 I think, and I never missed not having 120.

At some point you will want them, but I did (and still do) 1x lores. Get 1640, 1x lores, and eventually you can squeeze in 100s. I didn't even get 103 until after level 40.

115, 117, 120 are all pretty good, but you can wait until after level 60 if you're so inclined. I like 116 too as it couples very well with 1640.
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/10/2017 09:48 AM CDT
Late on this as well, but to give you a contrary stance, at fresh level 56, I'm fully 1x'd in spells, 1640, and 118. I'm axe and shield, with one focused multistrike, in full plate and working on my religion lores (18 currently). I have my fixskills from a couple weeks back to hold me over through the year if I want to try something crazy eventually, or if I find that when I get into 120 isn't worth it. As-is though, my CS is very reliable and I can ward creatures I hunt pretty much all the time. The amount of benefit we get from self-spelling with the 120's is very helpful too. The biggest issue is that at our typical armor, using the 100's in the field is never going to happen.

From training into the 100's I get 10 phyiscal DS, 65 bolt DS, 12 more elemental TD, 25 more spiritual TD, 19 more sorcerer TD, extra chances on warding rolls, walking across water (viper-shroud muck much?), and bonuses against disease/poison warding. A non-trivial other bonus is being able to have feeder spells for things that remove buffs. Winged vipers in the red forest, and darkstone are both annoying places for that, but the chances of stuff I'm really dependent on getting stripped away is reduced.
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/11/2017 11:21 AM CDT
One of the great things about paladins is that they are pretty difficult to train badly in my opinion.

In that sense, I believe the answer to the question of if 100s are "worth it" or not just depends on you. I preferred to get into full plate right away, which was a major investment of training points. My paladin also has 8x armor so the appeal of added DS from 120 was much lower for me even if he's THW user.

>The biggest issue is that at our typical armor, using the 100's in the field is never going to happen.

I think this depends if you have a habit of using 1603 or not. With armor fluidity and Faith's Clarity running, I get either zero or very low hindrance for the 100s. In that sense, I've been enjoying Spirit Strike in the field quite a lot the last weeks. But I already had a habit to keep 1603 running at least for the initial encounter with a new creature, since the hindrance for full plate for 1600s is some 7 or 8% which is enough to annoy me without 1603 active.

Overall the difficulty in answering if MnS is worth it for a paladin is two-fold

1) Minor Spirits are pretty useful in general

2) Paladins are fairly robust

I was slowly working my way up the 100s. 103 is only a couple ranks, and 107 isn't too far after that (and I liked 108 for the 'rescuer' theme my character has going). Then you hit the wall of 109, 110, and 111 which are among the least useful training points you're likely to spend in your GS career as a paladin (in protest I saved up enough TPs to jump straight from 108 to 112...as I also like Water Walking for some geographies). 113 and 114 aren't very appealing when you should already know 1635. The final result of getting to 120 is really nice, but there's a bit of grinding involved to get past some spells of much lower appeal.

Incidentally, I'm surprised paladins like Web (a few people are noting spell 118 in this thread, maybe by chance). My sorcerer loves the spell but I didn't expect to get much use of it on a paladin. The TD pushdown combined with 1612 could make it feasible? I guess I can consider this. It does seem like a fun spell to try for Sanctify, though the lore requirement is not small.
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/11/2017 12:42 PM CDT
Chiming in again, I'm currently 93 and hunting OTF exclusively. I've found that as I got older I utilize a lot more setup spells than I used to. Here's my training:

Kaight (at level 93), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 250 150
Combat Maneuvers...................| 195 95
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 284 184
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 192 92
Dodging............................| 284 184
Magic Item Use.....................| 62 13
Harness Power......................| 192 92
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 140 40
Perception.........................| 192 92
Climbing...........................| 150 50
Swimming...........................| 140 40
First Aid..........................| 140 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 40

I like to rotate between 4 rooms in OTF right now. I either circle around the Asylum or the Basilica. I use Faith's Clarity to open cast Web in the 4 rooms and then just roam around. If I encounter an Adept or Seer, I'll use Spirit Strike to power through their defense after using Feint. I find Web to be pretty darn useful since I have so much Spirit Lore. I'll generally find a few Ithzir already webbed as I wander around rooms during a hunt which makes their DS ridiculously low and stops them from performing any action. If I encounter constructs, you can open cast Aura of the Arkati as it bypasses their golden aura and lowers their DS by quite a bit. I don't find much use for unbalance as it's a warding spell and my Minor Spiritual CS isn't great at only 20 spell ranks in that circle.

With my current training, I can wear the below spells without bursting.

401: Elemental Defense I - 0:20:44 - 5 bDS, 5 pDS, 5 elemTD, 2 spirTD, 4 sorcTD
406: Elemental Defense II - 0:21:10 - 10 bDS, 10 pDS, 10 elemTD, 5 spirTD, 8 sorcTD
414: Elemental Defense III - 0:21:14 - 20 bDS, 20 pDS, 15 elemTD, 7 spirTD, 10 sorcTD
503: Thurfel's Ward - 0:18:21 - 20 bDS, 20 pDS
509: Strength - 0:19:26 - 15 pAS, 15 str
601: Natural Colors - 0:45:32 - 10 bDS, 10 pDS
602: Resist Elements - 0:45:36 - 15 bDS
911: Mass Blur - 0:36:21 - 20 dodge

I use a two handed weapon so bolt defense is critical against seers and adepts. Your TD is also lower due to not having a shield. I find Lesser Shroud to be very useful as it gives me that extra bump in TD. Right now, only Adepts and Seers can ward me with 50+ or so end rolls. Heralds can occasionally get a Lullabye off on me with a very high endroll. Unless I get RT locked I really don't have any difficulty hunting OTF at all.


As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/11/2017 05:34 PM CDT
>Incidentally, I'm surprised paladins like Web (a few people are noting spell 118 in this thread, maybe by chance). My sorcerer loves the spell but I didn't expect to get much use of it on a paladin. The TD pushdown combined with 1612 could make it feasible?

My paladin with 20 minor spiritual and 30 paladin base has only 2 less CS with Web than my same-level empath with 30 minor spiritual, 30 major spiritual, and 83 empath base. I can't say I use it often when 1614, 1615, and 1630 are all right there, but it can definitely be worth casting even with low spell training like mine, never mind spell-heavy paladins.
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/14/2017 11:40 AM CDT
My current training in my attempt to find a workable two weapon using paladin. I still wish Two Weapon Combat was 2 / 2 vs the 3 / 3..

Falvicar (at level 100), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Two Weapon Combat..................| 300 200 200
Armor Use..........................| 300 200 200
Combat Maneuvers...................| 200 100 100
Edged Weapons......................| 300 200 200
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 160 60 60
Physical Fitness...................| 200 100 100
Dodging............................| 300 200 200
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20 20
Harness Power......................| 200 100 100
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 145 45 45
Perception.........................| 189 89 89
Climbing...........................| 140 40 40
Swimming...........................| 140 40 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20 20

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 35 35
Training Points: 0 Phy 2 Mnt (118 Mnt converted to Phy)

340 days remain until the annual FIXSKILLS is to be granted, on 05/20/2018.

I think 200 dodge is better than going full 200 CMs and I can just retrain the CMs over time. Eventually I'll get Multi Ops back to 90 but I think that's the last thing on my mind. Currently the goal is to get Perception to 100 first (which will be fairly quick) then just work on CMs

I'm hoping to get lucky enough for a Splitter Cert to be purchased at Duskruin since I can think I can actually afford it this time round and I would do it for no other reason than for dual bonded weapons >,< However; I'm hoping I can instead just persuade somebody to sell me a second one handed katana instead since I'd rather not lose the bubble flare on it if possible although I would to make this happen.

The blades being used:

8x One Handed Katana, T2, Bubble Flare

Offhand: Depends.. if against undead then it's the 5x Iasha Falchion. Otherwise I'm using the 3x Adamantine Wakizashi



__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/16/2017 02:23 PM CDT
I'd love to see some logs of this build!
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/21/2017 07:46 PM CDT
Here's one from not long ago.. being bored, brave, and well.. you get the idea.

All of a sudden, a Grimswarm orc archer rolls hard to his side, and then leaps to his feet!
You swing a vermilion alloy katana at a Grimswarm orc archer!
AS: +492 vs DS: +298 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +2 = +228
... and hit for 45 points of damage!
Downward slash across the orc archer's left thigh!
Gouges bone!
The orc archer is stunned!
You swing a murky black adamantine wakizashi at a Grimswarm orc archer!
AS: +462 vs DS: +257 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +67 = +296
... and hit for 68 points of damage!
Weak diagonal slash catches the orc archer's left knee!
It is dislocated.
A Grimswarm orc archer falls to the ground grasping his mangled left leg!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
[Roll result: 171 (open d100: 86)]
A Grimswarm orc guard rushes towards you and connects with a shoulder check!
The orc guard manages to knock you flat on your back! 14 hits!

Roundtime: 10 sec.
PR>
In an awe inspiring display of combat mastery, a Grimswarm orc guard engages you in a furious dance macabre, spiralling into a blur of strikes and ripostes!
A Grimswarm orc guard thrusts with a spear at you!
AS: +421 vs DS: +367 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +42 = +103
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Thrust glances off your knee.
Might be stiff tomorrow, but it's okay now.

A Grimswarm orc guard thrusts with a spear at you!
AS: +421 vs DS: +367 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +3 = +64
A clean miss.

A Grimswarm orc guard thrusts with a spear at you!
AS: +421 vs DS: +367 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +63 = +124
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Tap to the arm pricks some interest but not much else.

A Grimswarm orc guard thrusts with a spear at you!
AS: +421 vs DS: +367 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +76 = +137
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Tap to the arm pricks some interest but not much else.

PR>
A Grimswarm orc archer cocks his light crossbow and loads it with a plain wooden bolt.
A Grimswarm orc archer fires a plain wooden bolt at you!
AS: +456 vs DS: +355 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +18 = +133
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Blow slides along your ribs.
Almost tickles.
The wooden bolt breaks apart and crumbles away.
PR>prep beacon
...wait 3 seconds.
PR>ca
...wait 3 seconds.
PR>
A Grimswarm orc skirmisher rushes in!
PR>prep beacon
...wait 1 seconds.
PR>ca
You don't have a spell prepared!
P>prep beacon
>ca
Mana surges through you in a brilliant display of silvery motes which skitter across your skin as you prepare Beacon of Courage...
Your spell is ready.
P>
You gesture.
Motes of lambent white-gold light appear and begin to swirl around you, coalescing into a radiant aura.
The orc skirmisher's face goes blank for a moment before returning to normal, as she successfully avoids the effects of the magical attack!
A Grimswarm orc skirmisher appears unaffected by the motes of lambent white-gold light.
The orc archer's face goes blank for a moment before returning to normal, as he successfully avoids the effects of the magical attack!
A Grimswarm orc archer appears unaffected by the motes of lambent white-gold light.
CS: +392 - TD: +291 + CvA: -17 + d100: +72 == +156
Warding failed!
A Grimswarm orc guard appears enthralled by the motes of lambent white-gold light.

Distorted ripples begin to appear across the mystical shroud surrounding this area!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
P>
[ Beacon of Courage: +0:01:00, 0:01:00 remaining. ]
A Grimswarm orc archer cocks his light crossbow and loads it with a plain wooden bolt.
A Grimswarm orc archer fires a plain wooden bolt at you!
AS: +456 vs DS: +355 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +74 = +189
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Strikes a fingernail.
Bet you'll lose it now.
The wooden bolt breaks apart and crumbles away.
P>prep 1630
Wait 1 sec.
P>ca
You don't have a spell prepared!
P>prep 1630
Mana surges through you in a brilliant display of silvery motes which skitter across your skin as you prepare Judgment...
Your spell is ready.
P>ca
In an awe inspiring display of combat mastery, a Grimswarm orc skirmisher knocks a fistful of arrows and fires them simultaneously at you!
A Grimswarm orc skirmisher fires a plain wooden arrow at you!
AS: +455 vs DS: +355 with AvD: +9 + d100 roll: +15 = +124
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Thrust glances off your knee.
Might be stiff tomorrow, but it's okay now.
The wooden arrow breaks apart and crumbles away.

A Grimswarm orc skirmisher fires a plain wooden arrow at you!
AS: +455 vs DS: +355 with AvD: +9 + d100 roll: +63 = +172
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Tap to the arm pricks some interest but not much else.
The wooden arrow breaks apart and crumbles away.

A Grimswarm orc skirmisher fires a plain wooden arrow at you!
AS: +455 vs DS: +355 with AvD: +9 + d100 roll: +25 = +134
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Poked in the tummy.
Hehehe.
The wooden arrow breaks apart and crumbles away.

P>
You gesture.
You briefly close your eyes, and the faint visage of a rearing unicorn appears behind you. A faint black light builds up and emanates from your hand before it takes the shape of an ethereal sword!
A plume of silver starlit flames stream from the edge of the ethereal sword, striking a Grimswarm orc skirmisher!
CS: +392 - TD: +300 + CvA: +8 + d100: +89 == +189
Warding failed!
The orc skirmisher is stricken for 96 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Minor burns to abdomen. Looks painful.
The orc skirmisher is driven to her knees!
A plume of silver starlit flames stream from the edge of the ethereal sword, striking a Grimswarm orc archer!
CS: +392 - TD: +291 + CvA: +8 + d100: +52 == +161
Warding failed!
The orc archer is stricken for 51 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Minor burns to abdomen. Looks painful.
A plume of silver starlit flames stream from the edge of the ethereal sword, striking a Grimswarm orc guard!
CS: +392 - TD: +291 + CvA: -17 + d100: +96 == +180
Warding failed!
The orc guard is stricken for 90 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left leg burns skin bright red.
The orc guard is driven to his knees!

The ethereal sword in your hand scatters into pinpoints of light that fade away.

You suddenly feel a strange pulling sensation!
You feel drained!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Shortly after I left, limbs, deeds and all!)

And yes.. I didn't catch that I was lying down til near the end when I left heh.

__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/22/2017 08:35 AM CDT
"In an awe inspiring display of combat mastery, a Grimswarm orc skirmisher knocks a fistful of arrows and fires them simultaneously at you!" -- Falan, emphasis Mine

I'm virtually positive that there is only one 'K' in 'nock', as it applies to archery. Any chance you could 'bug' that in-game?
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/22/2017 11:18 AM CDT

Good catch!
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Reply
Re: Paladin Training 06/27/2017 01:35 PM CDT
I came to conclusion 2x in CMs is actually better than 2x in Dodge.. although (since I am capped) it isn't a bad cap goal. Reasoning being CM RT Lock seems to be more killer and it won't matter what your Defense is if you keep getting nicked.


__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
Reply