My paladin is presently training level 68 and I stopped training in spells at level 60 when I hit 1640/120. I am wondering if this is sufficient spell training to get me to cap (where training further spells would then be a post cap goal) or if I will run into problems with this approach due to CS issues, missing out on one of the higher level 100 spells, something else I haven't considered.
If I don't pursue more spell ranks I will likely focus on Additional Lore training (currently 12 Blessings, 25 Religion, 11 Summoning). I could also considered additional CMAN ranks (current over 1x at 78 ranks) but I just don't see the bang for the TPs given AS isn't an issue and CMANs are very pricey for Semis.
Thoughts or suggestions?
My complete training at level 68 for reference:
>skill
At level 68, your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 250 150
Shield Use.........................| 240 140
Combat Maneuvers...................| 178 78
Edged Weapons......................| 240 140
Ambush.............................| 130 35
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 170 70
Harness Power......................| 168 68
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 58 12
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 54 11
Survival...........................| 90 20
Perception.........................| 90 20
Climbing...........................| 145 45
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 70 15
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20
Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 40
>cman info
Your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shield Bash sbash 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 1
Feint feint 4
Specialization I wspec1 1
Surge of Strength surge 1
>shield info
Your Shield Specialization training is as follows:
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 5
Prop Up prop 2
Shield Forward forward 1
Shield Spike Focus spikefocus 2
Shield Spike Mastery spikemastery 2
Block the Elements eblock 2
Protective Wall pwall 2
Phalanx phalanx 1
Planning on moving Shield Bash over to a shield skill once I accumulate the points to do it freeing up a small pile of CMAN points to take an additional skill.
-- Robert
PEREGRINEFALCON
JOEKRYSTEL
Re: Paladin spell training
03/22/2014 03:11 AM CDT
Right now you have five more spells than I had with Menos at the cap (1635/120), so I feel very confident you could hold spells where they are and be ok. Most things have pretty low paladin TD and you will still be able to hit with 1615/30 at your current spell training. With that being said, I am not sure you will want to stop. Having a higher warding margin and smaller chance to miss can be very helpful. Because 1615 can be used from guarded and you can still run away if you miss, it is one of the best opening gambits we have. Even if you only add spells at like 1 per 2 levels, it could pay off.
If you decide to continue spells, I would suggest one of two paths. Either stick totally to paladin ranks for the CS, or grab 125 and then back to all paladin. I use 125 every single hunt (to open boxes) and it is a fantastic spell for invasions. Even against death immune creatures it will knock them down on most hits and it works wonders on unwary NPCs. Of course, 125 is also the source of almost 100% of my deaths (due to reflected bolts). If you have a rogue friend and you don't fight in invasions much, you can skip the 125 and just get paladin CS.
As for other training options. Right now you have (after you cast 1611) just about 113 effective CM ranks. I would aim to get this a little closer to 2x level. That can be done either with more CM ranks (23 more) or adding paladin circle spells or blessing lore. The AS boost is nice enough, but being at 2x level will also make your feint work more consistently. The low cost, low round time, and forcing stance effect from feint make it my second favorite opening move.
Lores are also a great option. I am not sure which one to suggest, not knowing your hunting strategy. Blessing is going to help 1609, AS, DS, and Cman attacks, whereas religion is going to help AS/DS more if you are running zealot. Summoning boosts weapon damage and targets to 1630, and beyond 24 ranks is really relegated to post cap IMHO.
I guess it really boils down to which facet of your hunting you want to improve. Spells for 1615/30 (with a little boost to AS and CM built in and a penalty to redux), CM ranks for feint, or lores for 1609/1617 (also with a little boost to AS/DS/Cman). My strategy has always been to pick the one that works the best and focus on making it as powerful as possible. I rather have one skill at 110% with the rest at 75% than everything at 100. Your millage may vary on that technique.
Not sure if the above was helpful, but I hope it was. Feel free to IM me as well, I love to talk shop on paladins.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
If you decide to continue spells, I would suggest one of two paths. Either stick totally to paladin ranks for the CS, or grab 125 and then back to all paladin. I use 125 every single hunt (to open boxes) and it is a fantastic spell for invasions. Even against death immune creatures it will knock them down on most hits and it works wonders on unwary NPCs. Of course, 125 is also the source of almost 100% of my deaths (due to reflected bolts). If you have a rogue friend and you don't fight in invasions much, you can skip the 125 and just get paladin CS.
As for other training options. Right now you have (after you cast 1611) just about 113 effective CM ranks. I would aim to get this a little closer to 2x level. That can be done either with more CM ranks (23 more) or adding paladin circle spells or blessing lore. The AS boost is nice enough, but being at 2x level will also make your feint work more consistently. The low cost, low round time, and forcing stance effect from feint make it my second favorite opening move.
Lores are also a great option. I am not sure which one to suggest, not knowing your hunting strategy. Blessing is going to help 1609, AS, DS, and Cman attacks, whereas religion is going to help AS/DS more if you are running zealot. Summoning boosts weapon damage and targets to 1630, and beyond 24 ranks is really relegated to post cap IMHO.
I guess it really boils down to which facet of your hunting you want to improve. Spells for 1615/30 (with a little boost to AS and CM built in and a penalty to redux), CM ranks for feint, or lores for 1609/1617 (also with a little boost to AS/DS/Cman). My strategy has always been to pick the one that works the best and focus on making it as powerful as possible. I rather have one skill at 110% with the rest at 75% than everything at 100. Your millage may vary on that technique.
Not sure if the above was helpful, but I hope it was. Feel free to IM me as well, I love to talk shop on paladins.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Paladin spell training
03/22/2014 10:04 AM CDT
Thanks Menos, this was very helpful!
Since it sounds like CS won't be a huge or immediate issue I'll focus on bringing CMANs closer to 2x per your suggestion via straight up CMAN training and occasional Paladin spell training based on TP availability (physical or mental). I'm a huge fan of Shield Bash but when we started hunting in the Lower Eye I found that the area is largely shield bash immune and quickly became a huge fan of Feint. The additional CMAN training will let me maximize my effectiveness in this (4 ranks at current training has been effective against fire mages and sprites but I can imagine it being less so when used against more physical foes).
I don't run with zealot as I typically hunt with a wizard friend who wouldn't appreciate the forced stance. My current long term lore training goals are 105 Blessings (+22% block, high chance for 2nd flare, AS boot), 56 ranks in Summoning (bonus to DF), and 40 Ranks in Religion (Maximize 1640 raises, RP Title).
Thanks again for the thoughtful response!
-- Robert
Since it sounds like CS won't be a huge or immediate issue I'll focus on bringing CMANs closer to 2x per your suggestion via straight up CMAN training and occasional Paladin spell training based on TP availability (physical or mental). I'm a huge fan of Shield Bash but when we started hunting in the Lower Eye I found that the area is largely shield bash immune and quickly became a huge fan of Feint. The additional CMAN training will let me maximize my effectiveness in this (4 ranks at current training has been effective against fire mages and sprites but I can imagine it being less so when used against more physical foes).
I don't run with zealot as I typically hunt with a wizard friend who wouldn't appreciate the forced stance. My current long term lore training goals are 105 Blessings (+22% block, high chance for 2nd flare, AS boot), 56 ranks in Summoning (bonus to DF), and 40 Ranks in Religion (Maximize 1640 raises, RP Title).
Thanks again for the thoughtful response!
-- Robert
ZENDADA
Re: Paladin spell training
03/22/2014 06:28 PM CDT
I don't have much to add to what Menos said. I bug him constantly about paladins so everything I know comes from him and my own experience.
What I will say though is I think you are at the point where the class really opens up. I went spell heavy with lores as a post cap goal. I singled CM with doubling as a post cap goal. The neat thing is either way you're going to be a darn good casting tank thats hard to kill. To echo what Menos said at this point you can really focus on what you want without having to worry about being good enough or not.
Chad, player of a few
What I will say though is I think you are at the point where the class really opens up. I went spell heavy with lores as a post cap goal. I singled CM with doubling as a post cap goal. The neat thing is either way you're going to be a darn good casting tank thats hard to kill. To echo what Menos said at this point you can really focus on what you want without having to worry about being good enough or not.
Chad, player of a few
JOEKRYSTEL
Re: Paladin spell training
03/23/2014 01:25 PM CDT
You can fiddle with zealot to get it only on yourself, if you want to. Just leave the group, cast, then rejoin. I almost never use it (playing a tank build myself), but I wanted to be sure you knew. I think the vast majority of paladins run zealot some to most of the time so they must find it helpful.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
JOEKRYSTEL
Re: Paladin spell training
03/23/2014 01:33 PM CDT
Your lore targets look pretty solid to me. You might as well get that 202nd rank and drop it into summoning. I think it is the only one that one more rank will effect (location for 130). I went with 100 summoning, 77 blessing, and 25 religion. Summoning for 1630 targets mostly (but the DF boost on a lance helps), blessing for all the rest to help AS and flare chance. I only got the religion lore for the knockdown effects on 1615/30.
I have thought about going to 150 summoning down the road, not sure if I ever will though. I rely a lot more on spell attacks these days than I did when first setting up his lore training.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
I have thought about going to 150 summoning down the road, not sure if I ever will though. I rely a lot more on spell attacks these days than I did when first setting up his lore training.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
