I have a 48 empath who can fog and rescue, and I also have a 47 cleric. I have been seriously playing with the idea for quite a while of converting my cleric to a paladin. They both have such similar spells, both spiritual casters with warding spells, their hunting style is so very similar, I just don't feel like I need them both. My big question is, will I regret converting her? I'd love to hear some opinions!
SAPPHICO
THROGG
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/21/2012 03:53 PM CDT
>>They both have such similar spells, both spiritual casters with warding spells, their hunting style is so very similar, I just don't feel like I need them both. My big question is, will I regret converting her? I'd love to hear some opinions!<<
Basically, a paladin is a warrior with some access to spells, while a weapon using cleric is a type of mutant spell caster. They hunt quite differently. If you have ever played a warrior then you have some idea. But as for not needing both a cleric and an empath ... heck I use both all the time for rescues. The deceased is fogged to town, healed by my empath, and then if no cleric is around, I bring her in for the raise.
Or you may be bored by pure spell casting hunting. In that case, you might want to try using a fixskills to convert your pure empath into a warpath; empaths can wield a mean weapon! Or you can try creating a paladin and raising him/her up from scratch to see how they work.
A main problem with paladins that I have found is the very serious lack of TPs for devotion to any ancillary skills. Perception, AS, MIU, FA, survival ... my paladin has NONE of those.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Basically, a paladin is a warrior with some access to spells, while a weapon using cleric is a type of mutant spell caster. They hunt quite differently. If you have ever played a warrior then you have some idea. But as for not needing both a cleric and an empath ... heck I use both all the time for rescues. The deceased is fogged to town, healed by my empath, and then if no cleric is around, I bring her in for the raise.
Or you may be bored by pure spell casting hunting. In that case, you might want to try using a fixskills to convert your pure empath into a warpath; empaths can wield a mean weapon! Or you can try creating a paladin and raising him/her up from scratch to see how they work.
A main problem with paladins that I have found is the very serious lack of TPs for devotion to any ancillary skills. Perception, AS, MIU, FA, survival ... my paladin has NONE of those.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
GRYPES
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/21/2012 05:29 PM CDT
My big question is, will I regret converting her?
Yes. I really wish they would remove the option. I've seen a ton of people use it as a method of trying something new because they were bored with a character and those almost always regret it.
The people that converted because they wanted a paladin option at some point in the past and got stuck with warriors/clerics seem to be the ones that made the jump and didn't regret it.
All others I've talked to who fell into one of these...
-it's a cheap fixstats!
-character purchase (whether selling or buying)
-I'm bored with playing a cleric
-I've read the spell lists and skill lists and it looks like they're just clerics in platemail
-I want a huge AS
Virtually all of the above reasons were people that eventually regretted it. The cycle usually goes. Listen to objections, mark them up as crazy talk. Do it. First month is scary and fun because it's new. Second month come the suggestions for improvement to the paladin class to bring them closer to power to clerics or warriors depending on the previous class. Third month realization starts to set in of the scale of the mistake that's been made. Somewhere between month four and six the character goes up for sale, or quits logging on.
Dgry
Yes. I really wish they would remove the option. I've seen a ton of people use it as a method of trying something new because they were bored with a character and those almost always regret it.
The people that converted because they wanted a paladin option at some point in the past and got stuck with warriors/clerics seem to be the ones that made the jump and didn't regret it.
All others I've talked to who fell into one of these...
-it's a cheap fixstats!
-character purchase (whether selling or buying)
-I'm bored with playing a cleric
-I've read the spell lists and skill lists and it looks like they're just clerics in platemail
-I want a huge AS
Virtually all of the above reasons were people that eventually regretted it. The cycle usually goes. Listen to objections, mark them up as crazy talk. Do it. First month is scary and fun because it's new. Second month come the suggestions for improvement to the paladin class to bring them closer to power to clerics or warriors depending on the previous class. Third month realization starts to set in of the scale of the mistake that's been made. Somewhere between month four and six the character goes up for sale, or quits logging on.
Dgry
JOEKRYSTEL
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/21/2012 10:11 PM CDT
The above folks described everything pretty well. If you make the change be prepared for a class that is really nothing at all like a cleric. The conversion is pretty easy for a warrior who pretty much just swaps a few Cmans for a few spells, but from a cleric it is a whole world of difference.
If you like playing a warrior type character, paladins are a heck of alot of fun.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
If you like playing a warrior type character, paladins are a heck of alot of fun.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
ISMANO
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/22/2012 06:04 AM CDT
I converted farmer from a cleric and have zero regrets.
Partially this has to do with his RP, and partially because I was one of the people who took advantage of the low spell hinderance and wore hauberk and swung a claid, so conversion was easy.
>A main problem with paladins that I have found is the very serious lack of TPs for devotion to any ancillary skills. Perception, AS, MIU, FA, survival ... my paladin has NONE of those
This isn't the main issues with paladins, at least for many of us. Excluding the lack of serious Dev (unless it's to nerf us), which happens for everyone but clerics/empaths (and now some for sorks), my main issue is the lack of effective crowd control (410 is just as good, if not better and cheaper), the utter waste that Divine Word is (and forever will be as long as clerics have their stranglehold on all aspects of it) and excluding Bond and Divine Intervention somewhat, there's no real flash to our spells. Nothing screams OMG PALADIN!!111 while the other profession circles have multiple spells that are very bard/ranger/empath/etc/etc-like. Yes, TPs are tight but I'd be OK with it if there were more... Paladinese to our profession.
I could go on, but dead horses tend to stink after awhile.... So with that said, Paladins have issues, like many professions do. There are good points, and some not so good, but I still wouldn't convert back even if it was free.
-farmer
Partially this has to do with his RP, and partially because I was one of the people who took advantage of the low spell hinderance and wore hauberk and swung a claid, so conversion was easy.
>A main problem with paladins that I have found is the very serious lack of TPs for devotion to any ancillary skills. Perception, AS, MIU, FA, survival ... my paladin has NONE of those
This isn't the main issues with paladins, at least for many of us. Excluding the lack of serious Dev (unless it's to nerf us), which happens for everyone but clerics/empaths (and now some for sorks), my main issue is the lack of effective crowd control (410 is just as good, if not better and cheaper), the utter waste that Divine Word is (and forever will be as long as clerics have their stranglehold on all aspects of it) and excluding Bond and Divine Intervention somewhat, there's no real flash to our spells. Nothing screams OMG PALADIN!!111 while the other profession circles have multiple spells that are very bard/ranger/empath/etc/etc-like. Yes, TPs are tight but I'd be OK with it if there were more... Paladinese to our profession.
I could go on, but dead horses tend to stink after awhile.... So with that said, Paladins have issues, like many professions do. There are good points, and some not so good, but I still wouldn't convert back even if it was free.
-farmer
SMAHSH
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/22/2012 08:29 AM CDT
Better to play one from scratch, in my opinion. I'm about a million past cap, and love it. However, it's not for everyone.
TPS are slim for the first 40-50 levels, but open up for you if you're allocating wisely. Sure, you won't have pickpocketing, but you can climb and swim, use MSTRIKE a lot if you want, and even get some perception.
At cap, I had almost 202 CMANS (25 shy), 70 MSTRIKE, 200 armor, sword/board, 40 Paladin and 40 MnS, and I never felt behind the curve.
Would I want my spells worked on other than nerfing? Sure.
I will say 1614 can be a very fun spell if critters are 10+ levels below you. You can force-kneel-and-freeze hundreds of beasties in a mass-bind environment.
Paladins can be the most potent weapon users in the game.
TPS are slim for the first 40-50 levels, but open up for you if you're allocating wisely. Sure, you won't have pickpocketing, but you can climb and swim, use MSTRIKE a lot if you want, and even get some perception.
At cap, I had almost 202 CMANS (25 shy), 70 MSTRIKE, 200 armor, sword/board, 40 Paladin and 40 MnS, and I never felt behind the curve.
Would I want my spells worked on other than nerfing? Sure.
I will say 1614 can be a very fun spell if critters are 10+ levels below you. You can force-kneel-and-freeze hundreds of beasties in a mass-bind environment.
Paladins can be the most potent weapon users in the game.
THROGG
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/22/2012 01:03 PM CDT
>>Paladins can be the most potent weapon users in the game.<<
The main attraction point; I have seen capped paladins with an AS of over 600.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
The main attraction point; I have seen capped paladins with an AS of over 600.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
THROGG
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/22/2012 01:07 PM CDT
ok here is my level 35 paladin's skills. NOte: I am trying to do something that is outside the game design, namely keep her at 1x spells instead of 0.75x spells. Hence the sparcity of spare MTPs. Eventually I will slack off on these spells, and catch up, but for now she is lacking TPs for such extravagances as perception and MIU.
>> skill
Gwinnhafyr (at level 35), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 186 86
Combat Maneuvers...................| 134 37
Polearm Weapons....................| 171 71
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 171 71
Dodging............................| 134 37
Harness Power......................| 120 30
Spirit Mana Control................| 50 10
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 35 7
Climbing...........................| 78 17
Swimming...........................| 50 10
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 3
Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 31
Training Points: 8 Phy 7 Mnt<<
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
>> skill
Gwinnhafyr (at level 35), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 186 86
Combat Maneuvers...................| 134 37
Polearm Weapons....................| 171 71
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 171 71
Dodging............................| 134 37
Harness Power......................| 120 30
Spirit Mana Control................| 50 10
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 35 7
Climbing...........................| 78 17
Swimming...........................| 50 10
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 3
Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 31
Training Points: 8 Phy 7 Mnt<<
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
JOEKRYSTEL
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/22/2012 09:44 PM CDT
>>Paladins can be the most potent weapon users in the game.<<
>The main attraction point; I have seen capped paladins with an AS of over 600.
There are a couple hunting at more like 700. Loony zealot casters.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
>The main attraction point; I have seen capped paladins with an AS of over 600.
There are a couple hunting at more like 700. Loony zealot casters.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
THROGG
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/23/2012 05:58 PM CDT
>>There are a couple hunting at more like 700. Loony zealot casters.<<
Umm, yes, that would do it. Myself, I rarely use zealot unless I am feeling suicidal; call me crazy, but every now and then I like to stance down a bit to something conservative, like advanced.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Umm, yes, that would do it. Myself, I rarely use zealot unless I am feeling suicidal; call me crazy, but every now and then I like to stance down a bit to something conservative, like advanced.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
MOONGODDESS
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/26/2012 10:37 AM CDT
I posted the following in response to you same post on the Player's Corner:
"Do you like raising people? Do you like being able to neutralize/uncurse? Do you do any alchemy with the cleric? Do you make holy symbols at all with 340? Which arkati does the cleric follow?
Have you ever played a weapon-wielding class and liked it, or do you prefer the spell-slinging type of characters?
....
Personally, converting my warrior to a paladin was one of the best choices I've ever made in eight-nine years I've played GemStone. However, I'm one of very few "success" stories on that front... most people say to not convert, because most people have regretted it.
If you're still unsure, and have the character slot (and have the time/patience, or are the type of person who can make level 20/25/30 in the first month), I'd actually suggest rolling up a new paladin to see how you like it. Then, you can either keep with that character, or convert the cleric, if you want."
In response to Throgg's "A main problem with paladins that I have found is the very serious lack of TPs for devotion to any ancillary skills. Perception, AS, MIU, FA, survival ... my paladin has NONE of those."
Not always true, especially at mid-levels and higher. My gal, at level 55, had the following skill line-up:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 210 110
Shield Use.........................| 212 112
Combat Maneuvers...................| 155 55
Edged Weapons......................| 212 112
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 156 56
Physical Fitness...................| 155 55
Dodging............................| 155 55
Harness Power......................| 155 55
Survival...........................| 155 55
Perception.........................| 155 55
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 155 55
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20
Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 30
Now, at 72, I have the following:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 260 160
Shield Use.........................| 247 147
Combat Maneuvers...................| 173 73
Edged Weapons......................| 247 147
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 160 60
Physical Fitness...................| 173 73
Dodging............................| 173 73
Arcane Symbols.....................| 120 30
Harness Power......................| 172 72
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Survival...........................| 150 50
Perception.........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 150 50
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20
Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 40
As you can see, I'm over 2x'ing in armor, as I want to get to 210/220 ranks of AU for min. hindrance on my MBP asap. I also have 30 ranks of SMC, both for use with 1640 and for sending mana to other casters. I don't have any lores with her, but I really haven't seen any sort of disadvantage... once I get the 210/220 ranks of AU, I'll probably get enough lore to get another target with 1630.
"Do you like raising people? Do you like being able to neutralize/uncurse? Do you do any alchemy with the cleric? Do you make holy symbols at all with 340? Which arkati does the cleric follow?
Have you ever played a weapon-wielding class and liked it, or do you prefer the spell-slinging type of characters?
....
Personally, converting my warrior to a paladin was one of the best choices I've ever made in eight-nine years I've played GemStone. However, I'm one of very few "success" stories on that front... most people say to not convert, because most people have regretted it.
If you're still unsure, and have the character slot (and have the time/patience, or are the type of person who can make level 20/25/30 in the first month), I'd actually suggest rolling up a new paladin to see how you like it. Then, you can either keep with that character, or convert the cleric, if you want."
In response to Throgg's "A main problem with paladins that I have found is the very serious lack of TPs for devotion to any ancillary skills. Perception, AS, MIU, FA, survival ... my paladin has NONE of those."
Not always true, especially at mid-levels and higher. My gal, at level 55, had the following skill line-up:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 210 110
Shield Use.........................| 212 112
Combat Maneuvers...................| 155 55
Edged Weapons......................| 212 112
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 156 56
Physical Fitness...................| 155 55
Dodging............................| 155 55
Harness Power......................| 155 55
Survival...........................| 155 55
Perception.........................| 155 55
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 155 55
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20
Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 30
Now, at 72, I have the following:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 260 160
Shield Use.........................| 247 147
Combat Maneuvers...................| 173 73
Edged Weapons......................| 247 147
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 160 60
Physical Fitness...................| 173 73
Dodging............................| 173 73
Arcane Symbols.....................| 120 30
Harness Power......................| 172 72
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Survival...........................| 150 50
Perception.........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 150 50
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20
Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 40
As you can see, I'm over 2x'ing in armor, as I want to get to 210/220 ranks of AU for min. hindrance on my MBP asap. I also have 30 ranks of SMC, both for use with 1640 and for sending mana to other casters. I don't have any lores with her, but I really haven't seen any sort of disadvantage... once I get the 210/220 ranks of AU, I'll probably get enough lore to get another target with 1630.
TROUBLE13
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/26/2012 11:58 AM CDT
Paladins end up with 'tp issues' because they consider the 2x cman, PF, and whatever else required training. Quite a few would likely even consider your dodge training a waste. You could save points there but I am sure you appreciate the extra DS you get from those ranks as well. It is a trade off, choose to max your 'one trick pony' or have ancillary skills, most just follow the herd and go with the former.
THROGG
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
04/26/2012 02:37 PM CDT
>>Personally, converting my warrior to a paladin was one of the best choices I've ever made in eight-nine years I've played GemStone. However, I'm one of very few "success" stories on that front... most people say to not convert, because most people have regretted it.<<
Warrior to paladin conversion is a bit different from cleric to paladin; warriors and paladins fight in pretty much similar ways. If you liked your warrior, you will like your warrior with spells also.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Warrior to paladin conversion is a bit different from cleric to paladin; warriors and paladins fight in pretty much similar ways. If you liked your warrior, you will like your warrior with spells also.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
SMAHSH
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
05/04/2012 10:21 PM CDT
I don't feel a paladin is a one-trick pony. Sure, until 40th or so, you probably are, but there are a lot of things a paladin can do, and do well.
1614 is a darned effective mass binding spell for things 10+ levels below you. Much more effective than ewave.
1614 is a darned effective mass binding spell for things 10+ levels below you. Much more effective than ewave.
THROGG
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
05/05/2012 12:16 PM CDT
>>1614 is a darned effective mass binding spell for things 10+ levels below you. Much more effective than ewave.<<
Oh joy! A spell that affects critters I can't learn from! Wheee!
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Oh joy! A spell that affects critters I can't learn from! Wheee!
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
FITZCHIVALRY
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
05/05/2012 01:35 PM CDT
>Oh joy! A spell that affects critters I can't learn from! Wheee!
Quoted for truth
-Falicor
Quoted for truth
-Falicor
GALBRAITHT
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
05/05/2012 10:47 PM CDT
>There are a couple hunting at more like 700. Loony zealot casters.
869...
869...
SMAHSH
Re: Paladin Conversion Advice
05/06/2012 07:04 AM CDT
>Oh joy! A spell that affects critters I can't learn from! Wheee!
If the spell did nothing, I'd agree. But it DOES lower DS on successful casts, too, and is extremely helpful. Plus, you CAN get through to critters in learning age if you have enough CS. If you don't, that's not the system's fault.
I'm a commander in plat's militia, and as such, I frequently would find myself leading groups during lower-mid level invasions before they escalate. Being able to freeze entire rooms of even 90th level creatures is pretty bloody useful.
I'm all for complaining about our spells, but really, blasting one of the few spells we have that actually does something well, and works as designed, isn't helping anybody.
If the spell did nothing, I'd agree. But it DOES lower DS on successful casts, too, and is extremely helpful. Plus, you CAN get through to critters in learning age if you have enough CS. If you don't, that's not the system's fault.
I'm a commander in plat's militia, and as such, I frequently would find myself leading groups during lower-mid level invasions before they escalate. Being able to freeze entire rooms of even 90th level creatures is pretty bloody useful.
I'm all for complaining about our spells, but really, blasting one of the few spells we have that actually does something well, and works as designed, isn't helping anybody.
