This is a cross post from the rogue folder, illustrating my position that UAC is best suited to ambushing rogues and not Monks; apparently attacking from ambush negates the need to tier up. nks need love!
>>Here is an example of the UAC used from hiding by an ambushing 2x brawling rogue (Same character as the prior post). Attacking from ambush seems to mean that no tiering up process is needed is needed. You apparently get maximum tiering by ambushing from hiding. This is with both hands empty. And, unlike using the old Voln-fu vs non-undead, it costs no favor. Also, I am not using ANY footwrap or handwrap, and am in torso chainmail.
>>RH> sneak ne
H>
[Glatoph, Glacier]
Although the flying snow makes it difficult to tell, you seem to be going around a large hill. Wind whips through the valley, the chill cutting straight to the bone. You wonder briefly if you still have feet, or if they've frozen off. You also see a frost giant.
Obvious paths: east, southwest
Roundtime: 2 sec.
RH> stance offen
> kick giant left leg
The shrieking winds become suddenly violent. The temperature drops drastically, numbing your extremities in a heartbeat. You cannot see through the flying snow and ice, and it looks as though you may be in trouble!
H>
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to kick a frost giant!
You have good positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 202 vs UDF: 187 = 1.080 * MM: 96 + d100: 77 = 180
... and hit for 72 points of damage!
Rapid twisting kick deals nasty double strike to lower left leg!
A frost giant falls to the ground grasping her mangled left leg!
The frost giant is stunned!
Roundtime: 6 sec.
R>
A frost giant throws her head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
R> hide
Roundtime: 2 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> stance offen
> kick giant head
You are now in an offensive stance.
H>
You leap from hiding to strike!
You make a precise attempt to kick a frost giant!
You have excellent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 202 vs UDF: 177 = 1.141 * MM: 104 + d100: 67 = 185
... and hit for 94 points of damage!
Flying roundhouse lands severe blow to the head! Brain begins to ooze out through the ears!
The frost giant cries out in cold agony one last time and dies.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
Roundtime: 6 sec.<<
However, even with TWC training, using the UAC seems to give only 1 attack. With two katars, I get two strikes, so I'll rpobably use those isntead of the UAC.
As it is now, monks are possibly the least effective profession using the UAC, coming in barely tied with non ambushing warriors. Except warriors using brawling weapons get to wear plate mail, and become like vegematics using TWC and MoC.
I'd suggest that monks be able to triple in brawling, since they seem to be based on all those awful kung-phooey movies. Let their armor increase so much every so many levels as per the old D&D system, without any skill training. That includes CvA effect. No armor training needed.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
THROGG
DOUG
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/15/2013 10:20 PM CDT
Known / anticipated. And should be welcome.
Ever ambush with a monk?
Doug
Ever ambush with a monk?
Doug
RATHBONER
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/16/2013 07:11 AM CDT
16s is slow. My monk standard plans on frosties were 10s, or 3s depending on the circumstances. You should go complain on the rogue boards about how slow rogues are. ;)
WOLFFC3
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/16/2013 11:58 AM CDT
UAC Monks kick tail. My monk is the only character I have that I would take to the glacier at lvl 20. It took a long time to kill the giant and some may say this is slow. Of course, he's hunting a creature that's almost twice his level and I don't care what profession you are, that's going to be slow.
>
A frost giant points an icy finger at you!
A frost giant hurls a freezing ball of pure cold at you!
AS: +207 vs DS: +311 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +19 = -33
A clean miss.
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 164 vs UDF: 187 = 0.877 * MM: 82 + d100: 82 = 153
... and hit for 5 points of damage!
Low jab glances off the right thigh.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A frost giant mutters an incantation.
>
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a frost giant.
A frost giant is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Wait 1 second.
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Gondain: "He'd do anything for some FGB"
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 164 vs UDF: 226 = 0.725 * MM: 93 + d100: 9 = 76
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 164 vs UDF: 226 = 0.725 * MM: 78 + d100: 30 = 86
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance defensive
...wait 1 seconds.
>stance defensive
You are now in a defensive stance.
>sigil off
A faint blue glow surrounds your hands, subtly guiding your movements.
>
[ Sigil of Offense: +0:05:00, 0:05:00 remaining. ]
A frost giant points an icy finger at you!
A frost giant hurls a freezing ball of pure cold at you!
AS: +157 vs DS: +311 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +5 = -97
A clean miss.
>sigil def
A shimmering aura surrounds you.
[ Sigil of Defense: +0:05:00, 0:04:59 remaining. ]
>
A frost giant slowly works his way back into a standing position.
>sigil maj prot
As you concentrate on your sigil, you become much more aware of vulnerable spots in your defenses.
[ Sigil of Major Protection: +0:01:00, 0:01:00 remaining. ]
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Greycrown: "You two are boyfriend and boyfriend and I have FGB."
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a frost giant.
A frost giant is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Selareden: "Friendly Gay Boys?"
>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 93 + d100: 42 = 133
... and hit for 2 points of damage!
Hits right elbow, but lacks force.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 99 + d100: 11 = 108
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Lackluster jab to the mid-back.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 98 + d100: 11 = 107
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Slow jab barely brushes the palm! Maybe it was only an awkward handshake?
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>punch
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 96 + d100: 66 = 160
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Wild swing connects with the frost giant's neck and leaves a nasty bruise.
The frost giant is stunned!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
The shrieking winds become suddenly violent. The temperature drops drastically, numbing your extremities in a heartbeat. You cannot see through the flying snow and ice, and it looks as though you may be in trouble!
R>
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
R>punch
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 93 + d100: 89 = 180
... and hit for 35 points of damage!
Hard, swift strike to the side of the abdomen, but no major damage.
The frost giant is stunned!
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>punch
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 100 + d100: 67 = 165
... and hit for 38 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with left shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>punch
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 180 = 1.022 * MM: 104 + d100: 78 = 184
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Descending fist ends its arc against right knee, sending the frost giant stumbling back. Once smitten, twice shy!
The frost giant starts to favor his wounded leg!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
>punc right leg
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 105 + d100: 91 = 199
... and hit for 50 points of damage!
Quick strike to sternum makes the frost giant gasp for air.
The frost giant is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 177 = 1.039 * MM: 112 + d100: 14 = 130
... and hit for 12 points of damage!
Quick punch to right arm doesn't do any real damage.
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>jab
[LNet]-GSIV:Dayko: "hahaha"
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 177 = 1.039 * MM: 110 + d100: 81 = 195
... and hit for 12 points of damage!
Light jab to throat makes the frost giant swallow.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 177 = 1.039 * MM: 116 + d100: 32 = 152
... and hit for 4 points of damage!
Sudden sideways jab to left arm gets through the frost giant's defenses!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
R>jab left arm
You make a precise attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 177 = 1.039 * MM: 111 + d100: 37 = 152
... and hit for 4 points of damage!
Hits left elbow, but lacks force.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The frost giant no longer favors his leg.
R>
* Talman has been vaporized!
R>jab left arm
...wait 2 seconds.
R>jab left arm
...wait 1 seconds.
R>jab left arm
* Talman just bit the dust!
>
You make a precise attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 179 = 1.027 * MM: 103 + d100: 60 = 165
... and hit for 7 points of damage!
Solid blow to upper left arm.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>jab left arm
...wait 4 seconds.
R>
A frost giant slowly works his way back into a standing position.
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Dayko: "Talmannn!!!!!!!!!!"
>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 179 = 1.027 * MM: 98 + d100: 6 = 106
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Feeble strike to leg. The frost giant probably scratches himself harder than that!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
[LNet]-GSIV:Poloneus: "selling 8x racial falchion - ECW for Elves, HCW everyone else."
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a frost giant.
A frost giant is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Poloneus: "http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?79844-8x-racial-falchion-ECW-for-elves"
Your heightened awareness of your own vulnerabilities fades away.
>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 179 = 1.027 * MM: 105 + d100: 26 = 133
... and hit for 12 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the ear.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A frost giant slowly works his way back into a standing position.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 96 + d100: 5 = 104
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Feeble strike to leg. The frost giant probably scratches himself harder than that!
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You feel fully energetic again.
>
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 88 + d100: 3 = 93
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 98 + d100: 61 = 162
... and hit for 9 points of damage!
Fast strike to inner thigh knocks the frost giant off-balance!
The frost giant is knocked into a sitting position!
The frost giant is stunned!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 115 + d100: 13 = 131
... and hit for 12 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the ear.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 176 = 1.045 * MM: 114 + d100: 89 = 208
... and hit for 43 points of damage!
Sucker punch to the chin! The frost giant's jaw cracks loudly.
The frost giant is stunned!
The frost giant chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
Without warning, the winds intensify, howling as they rush through the area. Snow and sleet ride violently upon them, raking across your face!
R>pun head
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 171 = 1.076 * MM: 125 + d100: 46 = 180
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Sucker punch to the chin! The frost giant's jaw cracks loudly.
The frost giant chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
[LNet]-GSIV:Ulthanos: "thats so....racist...."
[LNet]-GSIV:Pydan: "welcome"
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
R>pun head
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 171 = 1.076 * MM: 114 + d100: 2 = 124
... and hit for 10 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the ear.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 171 = 1.076 * MM: 116 + d100: 25 = 149
... and hit for 20 points of damage!
Short punch to left forearm leaves a bruise!
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 171 = 1.076 * MM: 113 + d100: 16 = 137
... and hit for 17 points of damage!
Hard punch to the jaw momentarily dazes foe.
[You have earned 100 prestige points.]
The frost giant falls to the ground motionless.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
>
A frost giant points an icy finger at you!
A frost giant hurls a freezing ball of pure cold at you!
AS: +207 vs DS: +311 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +19 = -33
A clean miss.
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 164 vs UDF: 187 = 0.877 * MM: 82 + d100: 82 = 153
... and hit for 5 points of damage!
Low jab glances off the right thigh.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A frost giant mutters an incantation.
>
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a frost giant.
A frost giant is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Wait 1 second.
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Gondain: "He'd do anything for some FGB"
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 164 vs UDF: 226 = 0.725 * MM: 93 + d100: 9 = 76
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 164 vs UDF: 226 = 0.725 * MM: 78 + d100: 30 = 86
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance defensive
...wait 1 seconds.
>stance defensive
You are now in a defensive stance.
>sigil off
A faint blue glow surrounds your hands, subtly guiding your movements.
>
[ Sigil of Offense: +0:05:00, 0:05:00 remaining. ]
A frost giant points an icy finger at you!
A frost giant hurls a freezing ball of pure cold at you!
AS: +157 vs DS: +311 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +5 = -97
A clean miss.
>sigil def
A shimmering aura surrounds you.
[ Sigil of Defense: +0:05:00, 0:04:59 remaining. ]
>
A frost giant slowly works his way back into a standing position.
>sigil maj prot
As you concentrate on your sigil, you become much more aware of vulnerable spots in your defenses.
[ Sigil of Major Protection: +0:01:00, 0:01:00 remaining. ]
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Greycrown: "You two are boyfriend and boyfriend and I have FGB."
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a frost giant.
A frost giant is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Selareden: "Friendly Gay Boys?"
>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 93 + d100: 42 = 133
... and hit for 2 points of damage!
Hits right elbow, but lacks force.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 99 + d100: 11 = 108
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Lackluster jab to the mid-back.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 98 + d100: 11 = 107
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Slow jab barely brushes the palm! Maybe it was only an awkward handshake?
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>punch
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 96 + d100: 66 = 160
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Wild swing connects with the frost giant's neck and leaves a nasty bruise.
The frost giant is stunned!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
The shrieking winds become suddenly violent. The temperature drops drastically, numbing your extremities in a heartbeat. You cannot see through the flying snow and ice, and it looks as though you may be in trouble!
R>
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
R>punch
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 93 + d100: 89 = 180
... and hit for 35 points of damage!
Hard, swift strike to the side of the abdomen, but no major damage.
The frost giant is stunned!
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>punch
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 187 = 0.983 * MM: 100 + d100: 67 = 165
... and hit for 38 points of damage!
Wide swing connects with left shin, sweeping it hard to the side!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>punch
You attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 180 = 1.022 * MM: 104 + d100: 78 = 184
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Descending fist ends its arc against right knee, sending the frost giant stumbling back. Once smitten, twice shy!
The frost giant starts to favor his wounded leg!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
>punc right leg
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 105 + d100: 91 = 199
... and hit for 50 points of damage!
Quick strike to sternum makes the frost giant gasp for air.
The frost giant is stunned!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 177 = 1.039 * MM: 112 + d100: 14 = 130
... and hit for 12 points of damage!
Quick punch to right arm doesn't do any real damage.
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>jab
[LNet]-GSIV:Dayko: "hahaha"
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 177 = 1.039 * MM: 110 + d100: 81 = 195
... and hit for 12 points of damage!
Light jab to throat makes the frost giant swallow.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 177 = 1.039 * MM: 116 + d100: 32 = 152
... and hit for 4 points of damage!
Sudden sideways jab to left arm gets through the frost giant's defenses!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
R>jab left arm
You make a precise attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 177 = 1.039 * MM: 111 + d100: 37 = 152
... and hit for 4 points of damage!
Hits left elbow, but lacks force.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The frost giant no longer favors his leg.
R>
* Talman has been vaporized!
R>jab left arm
...wait 2 seconds.
R>jab left arm
...wait 1 seconds.
R>jab left arm
* Talman just bit the dust!
>
You make a precise attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 179 = 1.027 * MM: 103 + d100: 60 = 165
... and hit for 7 points of damage!
Solid blow to upper left arm.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>jab left arm
...wait 4 seconds.
R>
A frost giant slowly works his way back into a standing position.
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Dayko: "Talmannn!!!!!!!!!!"
>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 179 = 1.027 * MM: 98 + d100: 6 = 106
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Feeble strike to leg. The frost giant probably scratches himself harder than that!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
[LNet]-GSIV:Poloneus: "selling 8x racial falchion - ECW for Elves, HCW everyone else."
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a frost giant.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a frost giant.
A frost giant is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
[LNet]-GSIV:Poloneus: "http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?79844-8x-racial-falchion-ECW-for-elves"
Your heightened awareness of your own vulnerabilities fades away.
>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 179 = 1.027 * MM: 105 + d100: 26 = 133
... and hit for 12 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the ear.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A frost giant slowly works his way back into a standing position.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 96 + d100: 5 = 104
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Feeble strike to leg. The frost giant probably scratches himself harder than that!
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You feel fully energetic again.
>
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 88 + d100: 3 = 93
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>jab
You attempt to jab a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 98 + d100: 61 = 162
... and hit for 9 points of damage!
Fast strike to inner thigh knocks the frost giant off-balance!
The frost giant is knocked into a sitting position!
The frost giant is stunned!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 178 = 1.033 * MM: 115 + d100: 13 = 131
... and hit for 12 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the ear.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 176 = 1.045 * MM: 114 + d100: 89 = 208
... and hit for 43 points of damage!
Sucker punch to the chin! The frost giant's jaw cracks loudly.
The frost giant is stunned!
The frost giant chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
Without warning, the winds intensify, howling as they rush through the area. Snow and sleet ride violently upon them, raking across your face!
R>pun head
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 171 = 1.076 * MM: 125 + d100: 46 = 180
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Sucker punch to the chin! The frost giant's jaw cracks loudly.
The frost giant chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
[LNet]-GSIV:Ulthanos: "thats so....racist...."
[LNet]-GSIV:Pydan: "welcome"
A frost giant throws his head back and howls, shaking off the stun!
R>pun head
...wait 1 seconds.
R>
>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 171 = 1.076 * MM: 114 + d100: 2 = 124
... and hit for 10 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the ear.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 171 = 1.076 * MM: 116 + d100: 25 = 149
... and hit for 20 points of damage!
Short punch to left forearm leaves a bruise!
Your leather handwraps glow intensely with a cold blue light!
The frost giant scoffs at the cold!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>pun head
You make a precise attempt to punch a frost giant!
You have decent positioning against a frost giant.
UAF: 184 vs UDF: 171 = 1.076 * MM: 113 + d100: 16 = 137
... and hit for 17 points of damage!
Hard punch to the jaw momentarily dazes foe.
[You have earned 100 prestige points.]
The frost giant falls to the ground motionless.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
TROUBLE13
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/16/2013 02:21 PM CDT
I love the lnet chatter in that clip. That aside a lot of weapon swinging professions can do the same thing to frost giants at that level, they aren't a particular hard or dangerous creature to be hunting.
HEATHERHAZE
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/16/2013 04:11 PM CDT
I'm actually quite glad to hear from some monk players that their UAC isn't as ineffective as some (myself included) have made it out to be. I started a little monk but haven't taken her far, since I want to re-roll her from scratch to fix a few mistakes. But I also play a brawling UAC bard who really rocks, especially with Tonis. And seeing how effective rogues are with ambushing, it does seem at first glance that monks are at a disadvantage. CMANs appear to be the balancing factor. Is that correct? What strategies make monk UAC more effective than ambushing rogues or Tonis singing bards?
Thanks in advance,
~ Heathyr and friends
Thanks in advance,
~ Heathyr and friends
ALUVIUS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 12:45 AM CDT
I don't think anyone has been saying that monks are unable to hunt effectively. The problem is that they are slower in general. Also I can't think of anyone making the argument that open UAC is slow because it takes a minute to kill a creature while uphunting by 20 levels.
The ambushing rogue clip would have been a 10sec fight as well if Throgg had been using punches which would likely have been just as effective aimed. Also in a single target situation you wouldn't have to hide, but could have punched its head again from the open.
Unfortunately for open UAC users a 10sec frostie plan can easily turn into a 20sec plan when you don't get a jab tier opening and you have to 1207/feint/leg the giant again. Its not the end of the world when you have a single frost giant, but if you have a couple of casting mobs in a room it can get rough.
Its the inconsistency of the openings from jab that is the main culprit. That's why I've maintained that this fun combat system only needs some minor tweaks, in fact just one would do it for me though I'd like to see a few others.
RATHBONER
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 08:17 AM CDT
>Unfortunately for open UAC users a 10sec frostie plan can easily turn into a 20sec plan when you don't get a jab tier opening and you have to 1207/feint/leg the giant again.
Ambush isn't a guaranteed tier either. People just aren't posting the clips where they ambush 3 times and are still at decent. If a rogue chooses to assume ambush gives a tier every time, the valid comparison is with a monk getting an opening every jab.
Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare when you jabbed it? I know I have. Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare on hiding from it? Who is slower now? Quick, run over to the rogue folder and moan about not getting flares from hide!
You shouldn't ever need to 1207 a single frostie twice. It'll happen if you are on the verge of losing control of a swarm of frosties (or uphunting them a lot and the first one doesn't work). The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is insurance against other critters walking in. Some critters are fast enough and mean enough that you will want to knock them down twice with 1207 on occasion, but frosties aren't that fast, and they aren't that mean.
>The ambushing rogue clip would have been a 10sec fight as well if Throgg had been using punches which would likely have been just as effective aimed. Also in a single target situation you wouldn't have to hide, but could have punched its head again from the open.
Depends on the CMans and the target. Training full punchmastery well before level 40 is a no-brainer for a monk and gives those punches a lot of extra oomph. A monk with punchmastery could have punched that head in from the open, but a rogue that's put all their CMan points into shadow mastery may actually need to take the extra time.
>The problem is that they are slower in general.
This is an advantage, not a problem. 20s enjoyment of an engaging system beats 5s boring mash the same macro, or watch your script hunt the same thing the same way over and over again. Once its fast enough, extra speed is detrimental.
Ambush isn't a guaranteed tier either. People just aren't posting the clips where they ambush 3 times and are still at decent. If a rogue chooses to assume ambush gives a tier every time, the valid comparison is with a monk getting an opening every jab.
Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare when you jabbed it? I know I have. Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare on hiding from it? Who is slower now? Quick, run over to the rogue folder and moan about not getting flares from hide!
You shouldn't ever need to 1207 a single frostie twice. It'll happen if you are on the verge of losing control of a swarm of frosties (or uphunting them a lot and the first one doesn't work). The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is insurance against other critters walking in. Some critters are fast enough and mean enough that you will want to knock them down twice with 1207 on occasion, but frosties aren't that fast, and they aren't that mean.
>The ambushing rogue clip would have been a 10sec fight as well if Throgg had been using punches which would likely have been just as effective aimed. Also in a single target situation you wouldn't have to hide, but could have punched its head again from the open.
Depends on the CMans and the target. Training full punchmastery well before level 40 is a no-brainer for a monk and gives those punches a lot of extra oomph. A monk with punchmastery could have punched that head in from the open, but a rogue that's put all their CMan points into shadow mastery may actually need to take the extra time.
>The problem is that they are slower in general.
This is an advantage, not a problem. 20s enjoyment of an engaging system beats 5s boring mash the same macro, or watch your script hunt the same thing the same way over and over again. Once its fast enough, extra speed is detrimental.
RATHBONER
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 08:44 AM CDT
> What strategies make monk UAC more effective than ambushing rogues or Tonis singing bards?
Superior offense allows the monk to go for killing and disabling shot with worse position.
Superior defense and disablers allow the monk to stand and fight when others run or die.
Its all situational. Which situations are you interested in? There's threads with my training at various levels with some commentary about what its for. Take a look at them.
How does a solo self-spelled Tonis bard cope with being jumped by a bunch of bandits with subdue and cutthroat manoevers? Maybe they can't do anything to hurt you either, but I'd have thought a bard would be feeling quite vulnerable in that situation. Its not easy at level 20, but you can't sing Tonis either. I think getting a monk to 30 is actually pretty difficult, but the mid levels are really easy.
Superior offense allows the monk to go for killing and disabling shot with worse position.
Superior defense and disablers allow the monk to stand and fight when others run or die.
Its all situational. Which situations are you interested in? There's threads with my training at various levels with some commentary about what its for. Take a look at them.
How does a solo self-spelled Tonis bard cope with being jumped by a bunch of bandits with subdue and cutthroat manoevers? Maybe they can't do anything to hurt you either, but I'd have thought a bard would be feeling quite vulnerable in that situation. Its not easy at level 20, but you can't sing Tonis either. I think getting a monk to 30 is actually pretty difficult, but the mid levels are really easy.
ARATOS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 09:10 AM CDT
Any class using uac will kill with crits starting at tier 2, not even monks can get crit kills on tier 1 so that point is invalid. Try again.
ARATOS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 09:14 AM CDT
Monks can eventually have a good ds but so can't bards. Bards also have better disablers with stuff such as lullaby,ewave and song of noise.
So yeah, you are wrong on both accounts!
So yeah, you are wrong on both accounts!
GS4-MARSTREFORN
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 10:13 AM CDT
From what I've watched, and I do watch you guys, I have to disagree that open UCS is too slow. I've seen it smash through things as fast as a claidhmore when used correctly. I think it might even be more powerful at times.
-Marstreforn-
Icemule Trace Guru
Halfling Guru
-Marstreforn-
Icemule Trace Guru
Halfling Guru
RATHBONER
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 10:57 AM CDT
Bandits with UCS could be a lot nastier than bandits with claidhs.
An unarmed bandit leaps from hiding to attack!
The bandit has excellent position on you!
UAF 450 vs UDF 600 = 0.750 * MM: 1.00 + d100: 68 = 143
... and hits for 64 points of damage
Powerful grip twists head around until it faces backwards, giving you a new perspective on the effectiveness of unarmed combat!
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.
Someone should code them for Kenstrom. He could probably use a bunch for his next story, I reckon they'll be impossible to use in the normal game because they'll just be too nasty for players to cope with.
Or some GM might have a gang of renegade monks take over the brawling tavern outside Icemule and mug people going through the West Gate unless the town coughed up sufficient funds to renovate it into a proper monastery.
An unarmed bandit leaps from hiding to attack!
The bandit has excellent position on you!
UAF 450 vs UDF 600 = 0.750 * MM: 1.00 + d100: 68 = 143
... and hits for 64 points of damage
Powerful grip twists head around until it faces backwards, giving you a new perspective on the effectiveness of unarmed combat!
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.
Someone should code them for Kenstrom. He could probably use a bunch for his next story, I reckon they'll be impossible to use in the normal game because they'll just be too nasty for players to cope with.
Or some GM might have a gang of renegade monks take over the brawling tavern outside Icemule and mug people going through the West Gate unless the town coughed up sufficient funds to renovate it into a proper monastery.
HEATHERHAZE
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 11:06 AM CDT
<<<How does a solo self-spelled Tonis bard cope with being jumped by a bunch of bandits with subdue and cutthroat manoevers? Maybe they can't do anything to hurt you either, but I'd have thought a bard would be feeling quite vulnerable in that situation.>>>
My brawling bard has 5 ranks of Cunning Defense and is singled in PF, so the maneuvers don't hurt her too bad. When she gets tagged, she just waits until she's out of RT and e-waves. It's all her game after that. Throw on Tonis and she goes to town. If there are archers, she blows up their weapons with Vibration Chant. She has enough ambush to aim her shots pretty well. On the final tier-up, the next shot is almost a killing blow. Punch to head, grapple neck, kick to abdomen...all good killing shots. She's a bandit slaying machine.
Cutthroat would definitely ruin her day, though, you're right about that. Bards who can't sing aren't very dangerous, with or without UAC. But as I said, she's not that easy to get a maneuver on, so it hasn't happened in a while. Knock on wood.
<<<Its not easy at level 20, but you can't sing Tonis either. I think getting a monk to 30 is actually pretty difficult, but the mid levels are really easy.>>>
I'm looking forward to getting there to see for myself. As I said, it'll be a while though, with other priorities. I do appreciate hearing about it, as I'm still very interested in the class.
~ Heathyr and friends
My brawling bard has 5 ranks of Cunning Defense and is singled in PF, so the maneuvers don't hurt her too bad. When she gets tagged, she just waits until she's out of RT and e-waves. It's all her game after that. Throw on Tonis and she goes to town. If there are archers, she blows up their weapons with Vibration Chant. She has enough ambush to aim her shots pretty well. On the final tier-up, the next shot is almost a killing blow. Punch to head, grapple neck, kick to abdomen...all good killing shots. She's a bandit slaying machine.
Cutthroat would definitely ruin her day, though, you're right about that. Bards who can't sing aren't very dangerous, with or without UAC. But as I said, she's not that easy to get a maneuver on, so it hasn't happened in a while. Knock on wood.
<<<Its not easy at level 20, but you can't sing Tonis either. I think getting a monk to 30 is actually pretty difficult, but the mid levels are really easy.>>>
I'm looking forward to getting there to see for myself. As I said, it'll be a while though, with other priorities. I do appreciate hearing about it, as I'm still very interested in the class.
~ Heathyr and friends
HEATHERHAZE
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 11:12 AM CDT
<<<On the final tier-up, the next shot is almost a killing blow.>>>>
Almost always, that is. Big difference in meaning (where's that edit option)...
~ H
Almost always, that is. Big difference in meaning (where's that edit option)...
~ H
ALUVIUS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 12:03 PM CDT
>>Unfortunately for open UAC users a 10sec frostie plan can easily turn into a 20sec plan when you don't get a jab tier opening and you have to 1207/feint/leg the giant again.
>Ambush isn't a guaranteed tier either. People just aren't posting the clips where they ambush 3 times and are still at decent. If a rogue chooses to assume ambush gives a tier every time, the valid comparison is with a monk getting an opening every jab.
And you aren't posting the clips that all of us know show you having to jab 3 times before you get an opening. My response was to your "perfect" 10sec frostie plan for a monk. So yeah, it WAS a valid comparison to a monk getting an opening with every jab. Which we all know is unreasonable, yet you repeatedly post with an assumption of perfect UAC random rolls.
>Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare when you jabbed it? I know I have. Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare on hiding from it? Who is slower now? Quick, run over to the rogue folder and moan about not getting flares from hide!
That 2s hide is quicker than a 3s jab. And we both know that a hunting style that prays for a flare kill instead of tiering up and using aimed attacks is hopeless. So please don't pretend that you use/recommend that strategy.
>You shouldn't ever need to 1207 a single frostie twice. It'll happen if you are on the verge of losing control of a swarm of frosties (or uphunting them a lot and the first one doesn't work). The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is insurance against other critters walking in. Some critters are fast enough and mean enough that you will want to knock them down twice with 1207 on occasion, but frosties aren't that fast, and they aren't that mean.
The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is getting it down quickly so that you can punch it in the head. If you poof on jab openings how do you keep it from standing up? If it stands back up you'll need to either 1207 or leg it if you've received an opening by then. So yeah, giants you'll need to knock down twice sometimes. Again you're just being unreasonable.
>>The ambushing rogue clip would have been a 10sec fight as well if Throgg had been using punches which would likely have been just as effective aimed. Also in a single target situation you wouldn't have to hide, but could have punched its head again from the open.
>Depends on the CMans and the target. Training full punchmastery well before level 40 is a no-brainer for a monk and gives those punches a lot of extra oomph. A monk with punchmastery could have punched that head in from the open, but a rogue that's put all their CMan points into shadow mastery may actually need to take the extra time.
Punch mastery isn't needed with a proned npc and magical handwraps to give you more UAF. My monk doesn't have it yet at 28 (though its next on the list) and he gets punch head kills consistently at tier 2. Its one of the reasons I like the UAC system overall and don't think its hopelessly broken, just a bit slow on average. Besides this is a hypothetical comparison, a rogue could have SM rank 5 and Punch Mastery rank 2 while single training CM at level 40 if they wanted. Heck, even with hiding and using punch instead of kick it would have still been a 10s kill, as quick as a monk could do it with the possibility of being even quicker.
>The problem is that they are slower in general.
>This is an advantage, not a problem. 20s enjoyment of an engaging system beats 5s boring mash the same macro, or watch your script hunt the same thing the same way over and over again. Once its fast enough, extra speed is detrimental.
I kind of agree with you on this, I have more fun with the UAC system than any other melee system in the game. Part of the enjoyment comes from the randomness and it taking a bit longer than a 1 shot head kill. I would just like some of the variability taken out of it, less 20s engagements and more 10s engagements. When everything goes smoothly its fun, when it takes 3 jabs, then a grapple, then a punch to the head after having to feint again .. well, that's not as fun.
Also, for the record I do not use scripts to hunt. I use macro's for hunting, though I do automate movement and looting with lich. Heck, when I started playing I didn't even have a FE! :)
I think in the past you've agreed that a Jab Mastery with increased tier up chances would be a valid change, requiring the expenditure of cman points to gain more of a chance to tier up with a jab. Its a fair and not overpowering change.
In fact I'd suggest whatever it is be limited to monks only. Monks should be the supreme open UAC user and right now they aren't mostly thanks to the lessened armor penalties and the attack masteries being opened up when other classes complained.
>Ambush isn't a guaranteed tier either. People just aren't posting the clips where they ambush 3 times and are still at decent. If a rogue chooses to assume ambush gives a tier every time, the valid comparison is with a monk getting an opening every jab.
And you aren't posting the clips that all of us know show you having to jab 3 times before you get an opening. My response was to your "perfect" 10sec frostie plan for a monk. So yeah, it WAS a valid comparison to a monk getting an opening with every jab. Which we all know is unreasonable, yet you repeatedly post with an assumption of perfect UAC random rolls.
>Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare when you jabbed it? I know I have. Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare on hiding from it? Who is slower now? Quick, run over to the rogue folder and moan about not getting flares from hide!
That 2s hide is quicker than a 3s jab. And we both know that a hunting style that prays for a flare kill instead of tiering up and using aimed attacks is hopeless. So please don't pretend that you use/recommend that strategy.
>You shouldn't ever need to 1207 a single frostie twice. It'll happen if you are on the verge of losing control of a swarm of frosties (or uphunting them a lot and the first one doesn't work). The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is insurance against other critters walking in. Some critters are fast enough and mean enough that you will want to knock them down twice with 1207 on occasion, but frosties aren't that fast, and they aren't that mean.
The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is getting it down quickly so that you can punch it in the head. If you poof on jab openings how do you keep it from standing up? If it stands back up you'll need to either 1207 or leg it if you've received an opening by then. So yeah, giants you'll need to knock down twice sometimes. Again you're just being unreasonable.
>>The ambushing rogue clip would have been a 10sec fight as well if Throgg had been using punches which would likely have been just as effective aimed. Also in a single target situation you wouldn't have to hide, but could have punched its head again from the open.
>Depends on the CMans and the target. Training full punchmastery well before level 40 is a no-brainer for a monk and gives those punches a lot of extra oomph. A monk with punchmastery could have punched that head in from the open, but a rogue that's put all their CMan points into shadow mastery may actually need to take the extra time.
Punch mastery isn't needed with a proned npc and magical handwraps to give you more UAF. My monk doesn't have it yet at 28 (though its next on the list) and he gets punch head kills consistently at tier 2. Its one of the reasons I like the UAC system overall and don't think its hopelessly broken, just a bit slow on average. Besides this is a hypothetical comparison, a rogue could have SM rank 5 and Punch Mastery rank 2 while single training CM at level 40 if they wanted. Heck, even with hiding and using punch instead of kick it would have still been a 10s kill, as quick as a monk could do it with the possibility of being even quicker.
>The problem is that they are slower in general.
>This is an advantage, not a problem. 20s enjoyment of an engaging system beats 5s boring mash the same macro, or watch your script hunt the same thing the same way over and over again. Once its fast enough, extra speed is detrimental.
I kind of agree with you on this, I have more fun with the UAC system than any other melee system in the game. Part of the enjoyment comes from the randomness and it taking a bit longer than a 1 shot head kill. I would just like some of the variability taken out of it, less 20s engagements and more 10s engagements. When everything goes smoothly its fun, when it takes 3 jabs, then a grapple, then a punch to the head after having to feint again .. well, that's not as fun.
Also, for the record I do not use scripts to hunt. I use macro's for hunting, though I do automate movement and looting with lich. Heck, when I started playing I didn't even have a FE! :)
I think in the past you've agreed that a Jab Mastery with increased tier up chances would be a valid change, requiring the expenditure of cman points to gain more of a chance to tier up with a jab. Its a fair and not overpowering change.
In fact I'd suggest whatever it is be limited to monks only. Monks should be the supreme open UAC user and right now they aren't mostly thanks to the lessened armor penalties and the attack masteries being opened up when other classes complained.
RATHBONER
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 02:13 PM CDT
>I think in the past you've agreed that a Jab Mastery with increased tier up chances would be a valid change, requiring the expenditure of cman points to gain more of a chance to tier up with a jab. Its a fair and not overpowering change.
Yes.
>In fact I'd suggest whatever it is be limited to monks only. Monks should be the supreme open UAC user and right now they aren't mostly thanks to the lessened armor penalties and the attack masteries being opened up when other classes complained.
There were things that needed to be done. The nerfs from the beta were over the top, and smite wasn't available to test in the beta. Smite wasn't remotely usable for a lot of Voln brawlers on release and the release needed tweaks as a result. I reckon the armor was one of those needed, but wouldn't have opened the masteries up and wouldn't give any new monk CMan to any other class until monks have got something more that is unique to them.
...
>Punch mastery isn't needed with a proned npc and magical handwraps to give you more UAF.
UAF bonuses aren't useful compared to MM bonuses. Punchmastery gives MM bonuses. If you are trying to leg a frostie thats still in defensive stance, a single rank of punch mastery adds about as much oomph as 10x gloves, two add as much oomph as a blue crystal, and all three is like adding a blue crystal and 10x gear. By cap it will be worth about double that.
I gave up my third punchmastery rank for a bit as a consequence of checking the requirements for titles. It was painful. I thought I was going to be able to get it straight back, the way dropping a brawling rank to check a title works, but it took days of being noticeably slower before I was in a position to get it back.
Punch mastery bonuses are seriously large, even before you factor in the tiering bonus. If you are feeling UAC is a bit lacking, punch is your staple attack, and you haven't got punchmastery, thats why you are feeling its a bit lacking.
>The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is getting it down quickly so that you can punch it in the head. If you poof on jab openings how do you keep it from standing up? If it stands back up you'll need to either 1207 or leg it if you've received an opening by then. So yeah, giants you'll need to knock down twice sometimes. Again you're just being unreasonable.
Its usually advantageous to knock them down twice, but you are better off legging them the second time than using 1207 again. You want them prone in offensive stance, and knocking them down first with 1207, letting them stand, and then legging them serves as a way of stancing them. Legging them the first time means they are likely to be stunned and lie there in defensive and be a lot harder to hit. Routinely one cast per frostie and I had enough mana to complete a bounty. Usually. Routinely 2 casts and I would have run out often.
1207 is best when you want the option to run if it doesn't work (soft RT), you don't have the DS to let it swing at you while you are in RT after swinging at it (you won't uphunting frosties at 31, but you will when you have levels on them), you want it to stand up again (because critters in offensive stance are far easier to hit, particularly when they are squares with levels on you).
Legging is best if you are potentially short of mana, it can't hurt you even if it gets an action, or you want it to stay down even if it gets another action. Legging is best even when you only have decent position on some critters, I didn't use it for frosties, but if a troll necromancer stands straight up after 1207, I'll punch leg first and 1207 afterwards if that doesn't get a result.
For a frostie, I reckon 1207 is advantageous for the first knockdown and thereafter its best to leg.
Yes.
>In fact I'd suggest whatever it is be limited to monks only. Monks should be the supreme open UAC user and right now they aren't mostly thanks to the lessened armor penalties and the attack masteries being opened up when other classes complained.
There were things that needed to be done. The nerfs from the beta were over the top, and smite wasn't available to test in the beta. Smite wasn't remotely usable for a lot of Voln brawlers on release and the release needed tweaks as a result. I reckon the armor was one of those needed, but wouldn't have opened the masteries up and wouldn't give any new monk CMan to any other class until monks have got something more that is unique to them.
...
>Punch mastery isn't needed with a proned npc and magical handwraps to give you more UAF.
UAF bonuses aren't useful compared to MM bonuses. Punchmastery gives MM bonuses. If you are trying to leg a frostie thats still in defensive stance, a single rank of punch mastery adds about as much oomph as 10x gloves, two add as much oomph as a blue crystal, and all three is like adding a blue crystal and 10x gear. By cap it will be worth about double that.
I gave up my third punchmastery rank for a bit as a consequence of checking the requirements for titles. It was painful. I thought I was going to be able to get it straight back, the way dropping a brawling rank to check a title works, but it took days of being noticeably slower before I was in a position to get it back.
Punch mastery bonuses are seriously large, even before you factor in the tiering bonus. If you are feeling UAC is a bit lacking, punch is your staple attack, and you haven't got punchmastery, thats why you are feeling its a bit lacking.
>The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is getting it down quickly so that you can punch it in the head. If you poof on jab openings how do you keep it from standing up? If it stands back up you'll need to either 1207 or leg it if you've received an opening by then. So yeah, giants you'll need to knock down twice sometimes. Again you're just being unreasonable.
Its usually advantageous to knock them down twice, but you are better off legging them the second time than using 1207 again. You want them prone in offensive stance, and knocking them down first with 1207, letting them stand, and then legging them serves as a way of stancing them. Legging them the first time means they are likely to be stunned and lie there in defensive and be a lot harder to hit. Routinely one cast per frostie and I had enough mana to complete a bounty. Usually. Routinely 2 casts and I would have run out often.
1207 is best when you want the option to run if it doesn't work (soft RT), you don't have the DS to let it swing at you while you are in RT after swinging at it (you won't uphunting frosties at 31, but you will when you have levels on them), you want it to stand up again (because critters in offensive stance are far easier to hit, particularly when they are squares with levels on you).
Legging is best if you are potentially short of mana, it can't hurt you even if it gets an action, or you want it to stay down even if it gets another action. Legging is best even when you only have decent position on some critters, I didn't use it for frosties, but if a troll necromancer stands straight up after 1207, I'll punch leg first and 1207 afterwards if that doesn't get a result.
For a frostie, I reckon 1207 is advantageous for the first knockdown and thereafter its best to leg.
WOLFFC3
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 02:17 PM CDT
One good thing about this thread is that the UCS topic, in general, is changing from it being considered a failed combat system, to how can it be best employed. Granted, this is just my opinion, but I've heard a ton of UCS bashing and am glad to see a bunch of people on here that use it effectively.
>>Punch mastery isn't needed with a proned npc and magical handwraps to give you more UAF.
Punch mastery aids MM and tier up chances not UAF. (just a side note but I do understand what your saying)
>>That 2s hide is quicker than a 3s jab. And we both know that a hunting style that prays for a flare kill instead of tiering up and using aimed attacks is hopeless. So please don't pretend that you use/recommend that strategy.
Yes 2s is faster than 3s but I'm not losing time due to mechanics. I lose seconds through typing so while my rogue can hide in 2 seconds I still have to input two commands (hide then ambush) correctly and at the exact moment in RT to actually make the whole operation take only 8 seconds (he uses a handaxe so 6 second rt from hiding). Throgg posted a UCS kill which took 14 total seconds of RT. An open UCS hunter can complete 5 punches in 15 seconds of RT or 4 aimed punches in 16 seconds by only hitting one macro button. In other words there is less "slippage" where you lose non RT seconds. All in all this removes human error and could actually be faster for the average player in GS. Yes, there is more to it than that but looking at open UCS hunting as a whole I think the time gap shrinks because it can be done more easily than hiding and ambushing.
The comment about a hunting style has some validity but then again we have all kinds of characters whose entire existence is based around gear. I've experienced frustration when my young characters are hunting with other youngins who are wearing 15 million coins of padded armor and swinging super expensive claids, while my character is stoked to have been able to purchase off the rack 4x gear. There is so much cross collateralization in GS that equipment arguments are a moot point.
>>The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is getting it down quickly so that you can punch it in the head. If you poof on jab openings how do you keep it from standing up? If it stands back up you'll need to either 1207 or leg it if you've received an opening by then.
That's true but one thing I'm finding with fighting giants is that by not aiming you've still got a good chance of attacking the legs. (I'm bewildered when I kick him in the head with no aiming and can't attempt a head kick while aiming but that's for another thread) When it's down go ahead and kick it in the leg. My rogue is a great ambusher and he still has to do this when trying to kill a creature that's stubbornly refusing to die. Not every attack, from any class, is going to disable every time and even the best character is going to whiff.
>>As it is now, monks are possibly the least effective profession using the UAC, coming in barely tied with non ambushing warriors. Except warriors using brawling weapons get to wear plate mail, and become like vegematics using TWC and MoC.
>>And you aren't posting the clips that all of us know show you having to jab 3 times before you get an opening.
I posted examples of this and it was because I wanted to see how my monk would do in Throgg's example. I know a lot people are saying "well frosties are squishy" but keep in mind that this thread was started by Throgg crowing over his/her ability to kill them easily. The rogue who was in the example is at a minimum lvl 24 and probably higher considering that the UAF of 202 is without the benefit of enchanted wraps. (THROGG, can you post your level and stats for the rogue also?) In any case,if Frost Giants are so super squishy then I guess this entire thread was started with a weak example of how much better other classes are at UCS. No matter how squishy the target, a character who can kill critters twice his level is doing just fine. Open handed UCS is also immune to Weapon Fire which is a nice benefit when comparing any open handed UCS hunter to other classes that are using weapons.
What I love about the monk is that he can go pretty much go anywhere, fight anything and I'm willing to put him into situations that my ranger, rogue or paladin can't survive. He does this wearing nothing but 4x robes, self and wiz spells and 4x wraps. There's a freedom to this character that I don't get from my others. He doesn't have to bundle arrows, manage weapons while looting and unlike my THW paladin in MBP (who neither bundles arrows nor sheathes his weapon to loot) he can hunt without coming home cut to ribbons.
This monk is 1x spells which means he doesn't have a lot of TP's for PF and Dodge. He's also got stats set for cap. In no way is he physically "tough" and yet he can walk around punching the stuffing out of anything he hunts. To me, this is the power of the UCS monk.
>>Punch mastery isn't needed with a proned npc and magical handwraps to give you more UAF.
Punch mastery aids MM and tier up chances not UAF. (just a side note but I do understand what your saying)
>>That 2s hide is quicker than a 3s jab. And we both know that a hunting style that prays for a flare kill instead of tiering up and using aimed attacks is hopeless. So please don't pretend that you use/recommend that strategy.
Yes 2s is faster than 3s but I'm not losing time due to mechanics. I lose seconds through typing so while my rogue can hide in 2 seconds I still have to input two commands (hide then ambush) correctly and at the exact moment in RT to actually make the whole operation take only 8 seconds (he uses a handaxe so 6 second rt from hiding). Throgg posted a UCS kill which took 14 total seconds of RT. An open UCS hunter can complete 5 punches in 15 seconds of RT or 4 aimed punches in 16 seconds by only hitting one macro button. In other words there is less "slippage" where you lose non RT seconds. All in all this removes human error and could actually be faster for the average player in GS. Yes, there is more to it than that but looking at open UCS hunting as a whole I think the time gap shrinks because it can be done more easily than hiding and ambushing.
The comment about a hunting style has some validity but then again we have all kinds of characters whose entire existence is based around gear. I've experienced frustration when my young characters are hunting with other youngins who are wearing 15 million coins of padded armor and swinging super expensive claids, while my character is stoked to have been able to purchase off the rack 4x gear. There is so much cross collateralization in GS that equipment arguments are a moot point.
>>The main tactical advantage of 1207 on a frostie is getting it down quickly so that you can punch it in the head. If you poof on jab openings how do you keep it from standing up? If it stands back up you'll need to either 1207 or leg it if you've received an opening by then.
That's true but one thing I'm finding with fighting giants is that by not aiming you've still got a good chance of attacking the legs. (I'm bewildered when I kick him in the head with no aiming and can't attempt a head kick while aiming but that's for another thread) When it's down go ahead and kick it in the leg. My rogue is a great ambusher and he still has to do this when trying to kill a creature that's stubbornly refusing to die. Not every attack, from any class, is going to disable every time and even the best character is going to whiff.
>>As it is now, monks are possibly the least effective profession using the UAC, coming in barely tied with non ambushing warriors. Except warriors using brawling weapons get to wear plate mail, and become like vegematics using TWC and MoC.
>>And you aren't posting the clips that all of us know show you having to jab 3 times before you get an opening.
I posted examples of this and it was because I wanted to see how my monk would do in Throgg's example. I know a lot people are saying "well frosties are squishy" but keep in mind that this thread was started by Throgg crowing over his/her ability to kill them easily. The rogue who was in the example is at a minimum lvl 24 and probably higher considering that the UAF of 202 is without the benefit of enchanted wraps. (THROGG, can you post your level and stats for the rogue also?) In any case,if Frost Giants are so super squishy then I guess this entire thread was started with a weak example of how much better other classes are at UCS. No matter how squishy the target, a character who can kill critters twice his level is doing just fine. Open handed UCS is also immune to Weapon Fire which is a nice benefit when comparing any open handed UCS hunter to other classes that are using weapons.
What I love about the monk is that he can go pretty much go anywhere, fight anything and I'm willing to put him into situations that my ranger, rogue or paladin can't survive. He does this wearing nothing but 4x robes, self and wiz spells and 4x wraps. There's a freedom to this character that I don't get from my others. He doesn't have to bundle arrows, manage weapons while looting and unlike my THW paladin in MBP (who neither bundles arrows nor sheathes his weapon to loot) he can hunt without coming home cut to ribbons.
This monk is 1x spells which means he doesn't have a lot of TP's for PF and Dodge. He's also got stats set for cap. In no way is he physically "tough" and yet he can walk around punching the stuffing out of anything he hunts. To me, this is the power of the UCS monk.
ALUVIUS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 02:27 PM CDT
I agree with everything you stated. I think we agree that the perfect 10s engagement with open UAC isn't always achievable. I would add that every other melee style is capable of a perfect engagement quicker than 10s (this includes ambush and haste/tonis UAC). Thus my argument that on average or in general, open UAC is slow. In the best circumstances its slower and in the worst circumstances its slower.
I'd just like to see some reasonable changes that would lessen the worse circumstances part, mostly meaning the circumstances brought about by the system itself when it takes up to 3 jabs to get an opening. If a few CvA/1202 tweaks were thrown in I wouldn't be too unhappy either. :)
The only reason I spend my time making these points is because I actually enjoy the UAC system. Now maybe I'll go play my monk some more, he's been on the back burner the last few weeks heh.
THROGG
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 02:44 PM CDT
>>Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare when you jabbed it? I know I have. Ever killed a frostie with a fire flare on hiding from it? Who is slower now? Quick, run over to the rogue folder and moan about not getting flares from hide!<<
Of course I have; I have a nice selection of flaring and weighted katars :)
>>
Roundtime: 2 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> amb giant
You leap from hiding to attack!
You punch with a serrated black vultite katar at a frost giant!
AS: +234 vs DS: +115 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +65 = +215
... and hit for 54 points of damage!
Well placed strike shatters a rib!
The frost giant is stunned!
You punch with a red-flecked enruned imflass katar at a frost giant!
AS: +226 vs DS: +127 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +58 = +188
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Loud crack as the frost giant's sternum breaks!
Your enruned imflass katar flares with a burst of flame!
... 30 points of damage!
Nasty burns to right hand. Gonna need lots of butter.
The frost giant howls in agony as the flames dance over her body!
... 40 points of damage!
Fire burns through neck and destroys carotid artery. Painfully bloody way to die.
The frost giant cries out in cold agony one last time and dies.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
Roundtime: 6 sec.<<
OK, it's true, my bare fists don't flare. I haven't tried it, but I am going to assume that hand and foot wraps can be e-bladed. If so, I can just have a fire-attuned mage e-blade some for me. Also, someone suggested that punch would be as effective as kick if aimed from hiding, to reduce RT. Have to try that also.
For me, one of the most annoying things about the UAC is that even if you train in TWC you only get one attack with both hands empty. Why not give monks the ability to attack 2x if they train in this skill? That would make them unique.
As for overhunting 20+ levels? Why bother except maybe for bragging rights? You don't get any extra experience for more than a 15 level difference.
"If youi aren't cheating, you aren't trying hard enough."
Of course I have; I have a nice selection of flaring and weighted katars :)
>>
Roundtime: 2 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
RH> amb giant
You leap from hiding to attack!
You punch with a serrated black vultite katar at a frost giant!
AS: +234 vs DS: +115 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +65 = +215
... and hit for 54 points of damage!
Well placed strike shatters a rib!
The frost giant is stunned!
You punch with a red-flecked enruned imflass katar at a frost giant!
AS: +226 vs DS: +127 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +58 = +188
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Loud crack as the frost giant's sternum breaks!
Your enruned imflass katar flares with a burst of flame!
... 30 points of damage!
Nasty burns to right hand. Gonna need lots of butter.
The frost giant howls in agony as the flames dance over her body!
... 40 points of damage!
Fire burns through neck and destroys carotid artery. Painfully bloody way to die.
The frost giant cries out in cold agony one last time and dies.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
The light blue glow leaves a frost giant.
Roundtime: 6 sec.<<
OK, it's true, my bare fists don't flare. I haven't tried it, but I am going to assume that hand and foot wraps can be e-bladed. If so, I can just have a fire-attuned mage e-blade some for me. Also, someone suggested that punch would be as effective as kick if aimed from hiding, to reduce RT. Have to try that also.
For me, one of the most annoying things about the UAC is that even if you train in TWC you only get one attack with both hands empty. Why not give monks the ability to attack 2x if they train in this skill? That would make them unique.
As for overhunting 20+ levels? Why bother except maybe for bragging rights? You don't get any extra experience for more than a 15 level difference.
"If youi aren't cheating, you aren't trying hard enough."
WOLFFC3
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 03:01 PM CDT
>>As for overhunting 20+ levels? Why bother except maybe for bragging rights? You don't get any extra experience for more than a 15 level difference.
You're looking at this wrong. The title of this thread is Monks suck at UAC. If a monk can uphunt 20 levels they don't suck at it. That's the point, not bragging rights. Cross posting your rogue killing that Frost Giant in three topics could be interpreted by some as bragging though.
What level is your rogue and what is the stat placement like?
You're looking at this wrong. The title of this thread is Monks suck at UAC. If a monk can uphunt 20 levels they don't suck at it. That's the point, not bragging rights. Cross posting your rogue killing that Frost Giant in three topics could be interpreted by some as bragging though.
What level is your rogue and what is the stat placement like?
THROGG
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 03:31 PM CDT
You folks are pehaps taking this in the wrong light. I WANT monks to be the best at UAC; which is why I suggested letting them attack twice if they train in TWC. UAC should be their specialty. Think all those awful Kung-fu Shaolin monk flicks. That's what I want to see them do. Well, within game paramaters of course; no 20 foot flying leaps :P
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
THROGG
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 03:44 PM CDT
OK e-blade doesn't work, but I can enchant them to 4x at least.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
ARATOS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 04:20 PM CDT
There is a pretty stiff tier up penalty on cries there above your level. I'm 73 and I was fighting a minotaur warrior the other day that I had jab 5 times before I got my first tier opening. The thing that frustrates me about uac being slow from open is that game is not balanced around slow engagements. This is especially true when you take into account 1202 not giving CvA. Monks are more vulnerable to spells than any other class simply because it takes them longer to kill if they aren't hasted. Don't even mention group hunting or invasions. The slowness sticks out like a sore thumb.
RATHBONER
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 05:51 PM CDT
>In the best circumstances its slower and in the worst circumstances its slower.
Not when the best circumstances include krynch opportunities. (or flurry, but I think the circumstances that suit flurry are rarer and trickier to get significant benefit from)
Krynch always has significant chance of not triggering, but when it does, its almost as good as being able to target MStrike.
You always need a Plan B, because tiering is never certain, but that's part of the attraction.
>OK e-blade doesn't work, but I can enchant them to 4x at least.
Flare is more important, because it gives a chance of an early kill from an otherwise innocuous attack. The difference between 0x and 4x is at most a 5% chance to hit, its still better than nothing, but in an area with trolls and undead I'll wear fire flares for the trolls rather than get the extra 4x on the undead.
...
You also see a tomb troll necromancer.
[its fast, it regenerates, it has levels on me, it throws sorcerer spells. I'm only a poor monk without even a wizard spell up to boost my TD. Surely its going to have me for breakfast. Quick Run away through one of those obvious exits. Or maybe just try 1207 and run in the soft RT if it doesn't work]
Obvious exits: east, southwest, west
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a tomb troll necromancer.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a tomb troll necromancer.
A tomb troll necromancer is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
Wait 1 second.
[down it went. But its going to take forever to get a tier on it. Surely the poor monk is doomed. Might as well take a jab before running though. You never know, I might get one of those special killpure flares that only monks get.]
You attempt to jab a tomb troll necromancer!
As you strike, a deep golden light surrounds your hands!
You have decent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 330 = 1.021 * MM: 104 + d100: 37 = 143
... and hit for 3 points of damage!
Light strike to the eyebrow. That must sting!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
[Heh]
You attempt to kick a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 382 = 0.882 * MM: 101 + d100: 44 = 133
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Hook kick connects with left thigh, fracturing the hip!
The troll necromancer is stunned!
The troll necromancer starts to favor her wounded leg!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
...wait 1 seconds.
[jab for another tier, go for the kill, or feint to stance it, all more all less give the same result in the end]
You attempt to jab a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 376 = 0.896 * MM: 107 + d100: 4 = 99
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
A tomb troll necromancer's flesh wounds regenerate slowly.
A tomb troll necromancer's left leg regenerates and looks much better.
[NOOOOO. I missed the jab and its regenerating.]
You attempt to jab a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 379 = 0.889 * MM: 107 + d100: 36 = 131
... and hit for 6 points of damage!
Slap across the eye causes disorientation.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to grapple a tomb troll necromancer!
You have excellent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 369 = 0.913 * MM: 112 + d100: 4 = 106
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Attempt to grapple right leg fails as the troll necromancer moves aside.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
A tomb troll necromancer's flesh wounds regenerate slowly.
A tomb troll necromancer's left leg regenerates and looks fully healed.
[Its a tier, I can live with that. The necromancer however ...]
R>pun he
You make a precise attempt to punch a tomb troll necromancer!
You have excellent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 370 = 0.910 * MM: 122 + d100: 67 = 178
... and hit for 60 points of damage!
Awesome punch to forehead snaps head straight back with a sickening CRUNCH!
A tomb troll necromancer glares forward, then collapses in a motionless heap.
The deep blue glow leaves a tomb troll necromancer.
The bright luminescence fades from around a tomb troll necromancer.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around a tomb troll necromancer.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a tomb troll necromancer.
The white light leaves a tomb troll necromancer.
The very powerful look leaves a tomb troll necromancer.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>search
You search the troll necromancer.
...
25s RT for me. The troll got quite a few lucky breaks. It had the capability to do me serious damage with its spells (probably about a 40% chance to ward). It never even got to prep something. Unless there is a BAF scripter running around there, causing them to have spells prepped they can throw at me on entry, they don't really have a chance.
Peer about for a bit and here's another one.
...
[Marsh Keep, Dungeon Vault]
The southern lip of the half-dome ends above and the ceiling of the chamber seamlessly meets the top of a massive iron door. Set between the door and five burning torches on the northside of the chamber is a large stone altar, atop which lies a skeleton impaled through the chest by metal spear. The dark sockets of the skeleton's skull gazes silently at the metal door while its boney hands grasp the spear by its haft above its chest. You also see a tomb troll necromancer.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, northwest
A tomb troll necromancer traces a sign that contorts in the air while she forcefully incants a dark invocation.
[Warning Pain/Disintegration/bloodburst incoming. Take evasive action now or...]
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a tomb troll necromancer.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a tomb troll necromancer.
The troll necromancer is buffeted by the force, but remains standing.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
[Now the monk's going to suffer]
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a tomb troll necromancer.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a tomb troll necromancer.
A tomb troll necromancer is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
Wait 1 second.
[its down but its got a spell prepped, no tickling with jabs, stun it quick, you never know, that special monk killpure flare might go off...]
You attempt to punch a tomb troll necromancer!
As you strike, a deep golden light surrounds your hands!
You have decent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 316 = 1.066 * MM: 118 + d100: 94 = 219
... and hit for 55 points of damage!
Blow to kidney!
The troll necromancer is stunned!
[heh]
Your yellow leather gloves flare with a burst of flame!
... 25 points of damage!
Burst of flames to right arm toasts skin to elbows.
The troll necromancer howls in agony as the flames dance over her body!
... 30 points of damage!
Flames engulf head searing hair and scalp. Sickening!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
[It might struggle to get that spell off in the near future, time to relax and tickle it]
You attempt to jab a tomb troll necromancer!
You have decent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 371 = 0.908 * MM: 110 + d100: 68 = 167
... and hit for 7 points of damage!
Glancing slap upside the head causes slight disorientation.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
The troll necromancer's skin sizzles from her recent burns.
You attempt to grapple a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 371 = 0.908 * MM: 115 + d100: 9 = 113
... and hit for 15 points of damage!
Elbow to right eye dazes her.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
[its still in defensive so the odds aren't good for an immediate kill, but its got a spell in that head so there's mileage in knocking it about a bit more]
R>pun he
You make a precise attempt to punch a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 351 = 0.960 * MM: 128 + d100: 45 = 167
... and hit for 42 points of damage!
Solid blow to the jaw leaves the troll necromancer spitting blood... and teeth!
The troll necromancer chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
The troll necromancer's skin sizzles from her recent burns.
...wait 1 seconds.
[try for the feint to set it up good and proper]
[Roll result: 64 (open d100: -43) Bonus: 10]
You feint to the left, but the troll necromancer isn't fooled for a second.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
[Uh oh. Its recovered from its stun and its going to attack me. I'm going to be splatted by a necromancer ...]
The troll necromancer's skin sizzles from her recent burns.
A tomb troll necromancer swings a slime-covered willow runestaff at you!
AS: +223 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +6 + d100 roll: +28 = -66
A clean miss.
[mashing its head pays off. Necromancers really aren't that good at beating up anyone, let alone a monk, with a runestaff]
[it might not kill it, but another stun would be useful so punch rather than feint or jab, and there's always a chance of that special monk killpure flare]
>pun he
You make a precise attempt to punch a tomb troll necromancer!
As you strike, a deep golden light surrounds your hands!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 314 = 1.073 * MM: 124 + d100: 93 = 226
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
Palm strike to face drives nose straight into brain!
A tomb troll necromancer glares forward, then collapses in a motionless heap.
The deep blue glow leaves a tomb troll necromancer.
...
27s of RT for me. Mixed luck. It got actions but couldn't do anything with them.
They probably do get one spell off on me during the course of a hunt. The tomb trolls probably do get one shield bash off on me too. But they have to get a one shot kill, because they can't land nearly enough nicks to bleed me out before the stun/RT wears out. That 316 offensive stance is pretty hard to disable enough that I can actually be hurt by weaponry.
Sometimes fights are over rather faster. I've just finished off a couple of necromancers and ...
...
R>search
A tomb troll lopes in.
>search
You search the troll necromancer.
You discard the necromancer's useless equipment.
She carried a weathered tanik strongbox on her!
A tomb troll necromancer decays into a pile of skin and bones.
You search the troll necromancer.
You discard the necromancer's useless equipment.
She didn't carry any silver.
She had a white opal on her!
Interesting, she carried a garnet-set imflass sceptre on her.
She had nothing else of value.
A tomb troll necromancer decays into a pile of skin and bones.
You attempt to punch a tomb troll!
You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a tomb troll!
You have excellent positioning against a tomb troll.
UAF: 352 vs UDF: 356 = 0.988 * MM: 76 + d100: 97 = 172
... and hit for 59 points of damage!
Teeth knocked out... through the back of the tomb troll's head!
A tomb troll blinks in astonishment,
[Its been killed, by a monk, in THREE seconds! Who'd ever believe that?!]
Not when the best circumstances include krynch opportunities. (or flurry, but I think the circumstances that suit flurry are rarer and trickier to get significant benefit from)
Krynch always has significant chance of not triggering, but when it does, its almost as good as being able to target MStrike.
You always need a Plan B, because tiering is never certain, but that's part of the attraction.
>OK e-blade doesn't work, but I can enchant them to 4x at least.
Flare is more important, because it gives a chance of an early kill from an otherwise innocuous attack. The difference between 0x and 4x is at most a 5% chance to hit, its still better than nothing, but in an area with trolls and undead I'll wear fire flares for the trolls rather than get the extra 4x on the undead.
...
You also see a tomb troll necromancer.
[its fast, it regenerates, it has levels on me, it throws sorcerer spells. I'm only a poor monk without even a wizard spell up to boost my TD. Surely its going to have me for breakfast. Quick Run away through one of those obvious exits. Or maybe just try 1207 and run in the soft RT if it doesn't work]
Obvious exits: east, southwest, west
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a tomb troll necromancer.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a tomb troll necromancer.
A tomb troll necromancer is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
Wait 1 second.
[down it went. But its going to take forever to get a tier on it. Surely the poor monk is doomed. Might as well take a jab before running though. You never know, I might get one of those special killpure flares that only monks get.]
You attempt to jab a tomb troll necromancer!
As you strike, a deep golden light surrounds your hands!
You have decent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 330 = 1.021 * MM: 104 + d100: 37 = 143
... and hit for 3 points of damage!
Light strike to the eyebrow. That must sting!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup kick attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
[Heh]
You attempt to kick a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 382 = 0.882 * MM: 101 + d100: 44 = 133
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Hook kick connects with left thigh, fracturing the hip!
The troll necromancer is stunned!
The troll necromancer starts to favor her wounded leg!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
...wait 1 seconds.
[jab for another tier, go for the kill, or feint to stance it, all more all less give the same result in the end]
You attempt to jab a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 376 = 0.896 * MM: 107 + d100: 4 = 99
A close miss!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
A tomb troll necromancer's flesh wounds regenerate slowly.
A tomb troll necromancer's left leg regenerates and looks much better.
[NOOOOO. I missed the jab and its regenerating.]
You attempt to jab a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 379 = 0.889 * MM: 107 + d100: 36 = 131
... and hit for 6 points of damage!
Slap across the eye causes disorientation.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to grapple a tomb troll necromancer!
You have excellent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 369 = 0.913 * MM: 112 + d100: 4 = 106
... and hit for 1 point of damage!
Attempt to grapple right leg fails as the troll necromancer moves aside.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
A tomb troll necromancer's flesh wounds regenerate slowly.
A tomb troll necromancer's left leg regenerates and looks fully healed.
[Its a tier, I can live with that. The necromancer however ...]
R>pun he
You make a precise attempt to punch a tomb troll necromancer!
You have excellent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 370 = 0.910 * MM: 122 + d100: 67 = 178
... and hit for 60 points of damage!
Awesome punch to forehead snaps head straight back with a sickening CRUNCH!
A tomb troll necromancer glares forward, then collapses in a motionless heap.
The deep blue glow leaves a tomb troll necromancer.
The bright luminescence fades from around a tomb troll necromancer.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around a tomb troll necromancer.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a tomb troll necromancer.
The white light leaves a tomb troll necromancer.
The very powerful look leaves a tomb troll necromancer.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>search
You search the troll necromancer.
...
25s RT for me. The troll got quite a few lucky breaks. It had the capability to do me serious damage with its spells (probably about a 40% chance to ward). It never even got to prep something. Unless there is a BAF scripter running around there, causing them to have spells prepped they can throw at me on entry, they don't really have a chance.
Peer about for a bit and here's another one.
...
[Marsh Keep, Dungeon Vault]
The southern lip of the half-dome ends above and the ceiling of the chamber seamlessly meets the top of a massive iron door. Set between the door and five burning torches on the northside of the chamber is a large stone altar, atop which lies a skeleton impaled through the chest by metal spear. The dark sockets of the skeleton's skull gazes silently at the metal door while its boney hands grasp the spear by its haft above its chest. You also see a tomb troll necromancer.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, northwest
A tomb troll necromancer traces a sign that contorts in the air while she forcefully incants a dark invocation.
[Warning Pain/Disintegration/bloodburst incoming. Take evasive action now or...]
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a tomb troll necromancer.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a tomb troll necromancer.
The troll necromancer is buffeted by the force, but remains standing.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
[Now the monk's going to suffer]
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Force Projection spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a tomb troll necromancer.
A translucent force moves outward from you and toward a tomb troll necromancer.
A tomb troll necromancer is buffeted by the force and is knocked to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
Wait 1 second.
[its down but its got a spell prepped, no tickling with jabs, stun it quick, you never know, that special monk killpure flare might go off...]
You attempt to punch a tomb troll necromancer!
As you strike, a deep golden light surrounds your hands!
You have decent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 316 = 1.066 * MM: 118 + d100: 94 = 219
... and hit for 55 points of damage!
Blow to kidney!
The troll necromancer is stunned!
[heh]
Your yellow leather gloves flare with a burst of flame!
... 25 points of damage!
Burst of flames to right arm toasts skin to elbows.
The troll necromancer howls in agony as the flames dance over her body!
... 30 points of damage!
Flames engulf head searing hair and scalp. Sickening!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
[It might struggle to get that spell off in the near future, time to relax and tickle it]
You attempt to jab a tomb troll necromancer!
You have decent positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 371 = 0.908 * MM: 110 + d100: 68 = 167
... and hit for 7 points of damage!
Glancing slap upside the head causes slight disorientation.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup grapple attack!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
The troll necromancer's skin sizzles from her recent burns.
You attempt to grapple a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 371 = 0.908 * MM: 115 + d100: 9 = 113
... and hit for 15 points of damage!
Elbow to right eye dazes her.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
[its still in defensive so the odds aren't good for an immediate kill, but its got a spell in that head so there's mileage in knocking it about a bit more]
R>pun he
You make a precise attempt to punch a tomb troll necromancer!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 351 = 0.960 * MM: 128 + d100: 45 = 167
... and hit for 42 points of damage!
Solid blow to the jaw leaves the troll necromancer spitting blood... and teeth!
The troll necromancer chokes, momentarily unable to speak!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
The troll necromancer's skin sizzles from her recent burns.
...wait 1 seconds.
[try for the feint to set it up good and proper]
[Roll result: 64 (open d100: -43) Bonus: 10]
You feint to the left, but the troll necromancer isn't fooled for a second.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
[Uh oh. Its recovered from its stun and its going to attack me. I'm going to be splatted by a necromancer ...]
The troll necromancer's skin sizzles from her recent burns.
A tomb troll necromancer swings a slime-covered willow runestaff at you!
AS: +223 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +6 + d100 roll: +28 = -66
A clean miss.
[mashing its head pays off. Necromancers really aren't that good at beating up anyone, let alone a monk, with a runestaff]
[it might not kill it, but another stun would be useful so punch rather than feint or jab, and there's always a chance of that special monk killpure flare]
>pun he
You make a precise attempt to punch a tomb troll necromancer!
As you strike, a deep golden light surrounds your hands!
You have good positioning against a tomb troll necromancer.
UAF: 337 vs UDF: 314 = 1.073 * MM: 124 + d100: 93 = 226
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
Palm strike to face drives nose straight into brain!
A tomb troll necromancer glares forward, then collapses in a motionless heap.
The deep blue glow leaves a tomb troll necromancer.
...
27s of RT for me. Mixed luck. It got actions but couldn't do anything with them.
They probably do get one spell off on me during the course of a hunt. The tomb trolls probably do get one shield bash off on me too. But they have to get a one shot kill, because they can't land nearly enough nicks to bleed me out before the stun/RT wears out. That 316 offensive stance is pretty hard to disable enough that I can actually be hurt by weaponry.
Sometimes fights are over rather faster. I've just finished off a couple of necromancers and ...
...
R>search
A tomb troll lopes in.
>search
You search the troll necromancer.
You discard the necromancer's useless equipment.
She carried a weathered tanik strongbox on her!
A tomb troll necromancer decays into a pile of skin and bones.
You search the troll necromancer.
You discard the necromancer's useless equipment.
She didn't carry any silver.
She had a white opal on her!
Interesting, she carried a garnet-set imflass sceptre on her.
She had nothing else of value.
A tomb troll necromancer decays into a pile of skin and bones.
You attempt to punch a tomb troll!
You exploit the momentum of your previous strike to make a stronger attack against a tomb troll!
You have excellent positioning against a tomb troll.
UAF: 352 vs UDF: 356 = 0.988 * MM: 76 + d100: 97 = 172
... and hit for 59 points of damage!
Teeth knocked out... through the back of the tomb troll's head!
A tomb troll blinks in astonishment,
[Its been killed, by a monk, in THREE seconds! Who'd ever believe that?!]
ARATOS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/17/2013 07:46 PM CDT
Not tiering up is part of the attraction? Serious? I want whatever it is that you're smoking.
ZIZZLE-ZEARL
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/18/2013 12:03 PM CDT
OK e-blade doesn't work, but I can enchant them to 4x at least.
What do you mean it doesn't work? It surely does. Grab yourself some appropriate normal UAC gauntlets and boots. My monk has a set of of e-bladed UAC gear (for non-undead) as well as a nice set of 4x wraps that are blessed by a cleric to give them holy flares. <smooch> Them good flares!
--Zizzle
What do you mean it doesn't work? It surely does. Grab yourself some appropriate normal UAC gauntlets and boots. My monk has a set of of e-bladed UAC gear (for non-undead) as well as a nice set of 4x wraps that are blessed by a cleric to give them holy flares. <smooch> Them good flares!
--Zizzle
THROGG
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/18/2013 01:01 PM CDT
>>What do you mean it doesn't work? It surely does. Grab yourself some appropriate normal UAC gauntlets and boots. My monk has a set of of e-bladed UAC gear (for non-undead) as well as a nice set of 4x wraps that are blessed by a cleric to give them holy flares. <smooch> Them good flares!<<
Apparently I bought the off the shelf 4x ones; I have back room access to Tykels and that's what caught my eye. Are the guantlets and boots on the normal menu 0x UAC gear?
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Apparently I bought the off the shelf 4x ones; I have back room access to Tykels and that's what caught my eye. Are the guantlets and boots on the normal menu 0x UAC gear?
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
ZIZZLE-ZEARL
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/18/2013 02:04 PM CDT
Apparently I bought the off the shelf 4x ones; I have back room access to Tykels and that's what caught my eye. Are the guantlets and boots on the normal menu 0x UAC gear?
That's correct.
--Zizzle
That's correct.
--Zizzle
ALUVIUS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
03/18/2013 02:08 PM CDT
If you have 4WI access there are 4x cold flaring hand/foot items on the rhimar cart pulled around town. Although they wouldn't be good for the glacier :)
ARAMIUS
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
05/21/2013 02:20 AM CDT
>> From what I've watched, and I do watch you guys, I have to disagree that open UCS is too slow. I've seen it smash through things as fast as a claidhmore when used correctly. I think it might even be more powerful at times.
I would love to see logs of this...because for me hunting with UAC at cap, it's about 9-10 seconds in at least before I've tiered up enough to really crit kill something.
Pretty sure claidhmores can do that zero seconds into a fight.
I would love to see logs of this...because for me hunting with UAC at cap, it's about 9-10 seconds in at least before I've tiered up enough to really crit kill something.
Pretty sure claidhmores can do that zero seconds into a fight.
LORDEVARIN
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
05/21/2013 06:07 AM CDT
Comparing UAC to a fantastically weighted weapon. Hmm.
HALDRIK
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
05/21/2013 10:45 AM CDT
>> Comparing UAC to a fantastically weighted weapon. Hmm.
Well to be fair, the Guy said it kills as fast as a Claidhmore. 2nd Guy is just asking for logs.
Well to be fair, the Guy said it kills as fast as a Claidhmore. 2nd Guy is just asking for logs.
TROUBLE13
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
05/21/2013 02:17 PM CDT
With the right training and rolling krynch stance I can see it being possible. But the problem here is that krynch doesn't allow much time to carry over to a new room when seeking out bounty creatures. And you often don't get multiple bounty creatures stacking up in one room. It likely happens in some areas and some rare situations but it isn't the norm.
ROLFARD
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
05/21/2013 04:23 PM CDT
When can I sign up for fantastically crit weighted hand/foot wraps?
WOLFFC3
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
05/21/2013 09:08 PM CDT
UCS is doing things for my ranger that he can't do with a bow. He's been able to uphunt 23 levels. It's dangerous and it means hunting the right critter, but the point is that he can kill these things with UCS but can't wound the same critter with a 6x longbow and e-bladed arrows.
In that respect I can see comparing it to a powerful weapon.
So, the thread is "Monks suck at UAC;" and that may be true. UCS doesn't suck, it'd be kind of nice if Monks were better at it.
In that respect I can see comparing it to a powerful weapon.
So, the thread is "Monks suck at UAC;" and that may be true. UCS doesn't suck, it'd be kind of nice if Monks were better at it.
CAVEMANIA
Re: Monks suck at UAC; improvements needed
05/22/2013 08:21 AM CDT
I agree and I think UAC is good as a secondary attack style. There are situations where UAC is better than swinging a thw with my warrior for the speed alone but they are not frequent enough to use as a main attack style. I havent looked at their training too much but Monks may not have that luxury, though, which is the problem. With only ambushing being strong enough for consistent use, imo, monks being tied to UAC does leave me scratching my head. I do think it is a great combat style, though.
