I only just remembered this gives TD and consequently is a must have spell (my THW cleric is the only character I have that regularly casts it and only cares about its DS). What I am not sure though, is when to train for it. Now (level 52, just starting on the RR citadel) is the most use I'd have for it, but 13 more spells from 107 to 120 before I am out of the Citadel, is probably too much and then there is very little that throws spells that I see myself hunting this side of high 70s to low 80s.

Drop all the other rounding out I was doing after getting 107 and go for 120 now, or not train spells for the next 15-20 levels and only push for it once I am around level 70? Has anyone else thought about when they are going to train 120?

Current training. Squares are cake. Casters with no more than a couple of levels on me are manageable with care, but I'd want extreme levels of spell tanking for TD to go after a bounty on a dangerous mage apprentice (base level 54).

Two Weapon Combat..................| 111 27
Combat Maneuvers...................| 191 91
Brawling...........................| 208 108
Ambush.............................| 74 16
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 93 21
Physical Fitness...................| 208 108
Dodging............................| 262 162
Arcane Symbols.....................| 30 6
Magic Item Use.....................| 82 18
Harness Power......................| 117 29
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 30 6
Survival...........................| 70 15
Perception.........................| 154 54
Climbing...........................| 122 31
Swimming...........................| 99 23
First Aid..........................| 50 10

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 7

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20

I'm planning to beeline for 120 as soon as I round out a few skills, but realistically I won't have it before my 60's.

What were you going to round out?

>What were you going to round out?

I've been doing it for the last 4 or 5 levels after stopping at 107.

I've been adding ambush so I am reliable at aiming at more targets with more attacks than just the basic. If I miss an opening during a level, I add a rank of ambush.
I've been adding MOC, my current target is 25 ranks so it always takes at least 3 critters to get FoF on me. (10 ranks suffices for 2 like-level, but if they have levels on you, 25 is what it takes)
I'm adding MIU and AS, 20 of each being the next priority after 25 MOC.
At some point mana controls come into the picture (10 ranks would be the target if/when I start on a mana control)
Then there's various CMans that can eat up masses of TPs if I push CMan back towards 2x to get them. Focus 3 gets added next level and 4 and 5 follow at some point. Perfect Self happens at some point, but that's a huge number of TPs, and 120 definitely happens first.
I think lore isn't before cap, but its a place that eats TPs eventually.

130 imbed aren't so readily available and thats a 100s circle spell.

>Never. Everything helpful on the 100's circle is imbeddible. Train in MIU and have your helpful sorcerer friends imbed 100's in rods using raise activators for extended time. Monks are SQUARES! (read as .3 in spell ranks)

How many sorcerers rely on imbeds and scrolls for 100s so they can train lots more lore ranks? Monks aren't rogues or warriors. 120 is core training.

As a little side note, but if someone really needs 120 imbeds that bad, and they have the rods for it, let me know and I can imbed them. I should be able to pump out one 4-charge rod a minute, so it won't take too long. Kastrel is usually around the Landing or FWI.

________________________________
>Barnom exclaims, "I smell delicious!"
>Barnom says, "Like sage and nutmeg.

>"Walkar says, "Yes, too many kings never work. Especially when there's only one throne. It's a wicked game."
>Shameless plug.

To raise? Probably a good bit.

Did some really rough math (remember that Logic, Wisdom, and Intuition all factor into the math here), and for a relatively average stat individual, I'd say it would take around 35 MIU to get roughly a 100% chance using RAISE. If your stats suck, might take as much as 40.

________________________________
>Barnom exclaims, "I smell delicious!"
>Barnom says, "Like sage and nutmeg.

>"Walkar says, "Yes, too many kings never work. Especially when there's only one throne. It's a wicked game."
>Shameless plug.

When imbedding items the person can pick which verb is used to activate them, raise increases the difficulty of using the items but also increases the duration when activating the spell by 50%. Duration is 10 + 30 seconds per rank of magic item use.

>3)Rathboner, I looks like you have a lot of perception. Is that to help with certain things like not walking into bandit traps, aim'ed attacks or something else? How did you decided on the ranks or FA and survival? They are taking up TP's but don't look high enough to do a whole lot of good for skinning so I was wondering about that.

I regard 1x perception as core training on any character. I like seeing stuff. I might skip it on a short lifespan mutant, but not a character that's intended to last for a while. Perception is irrelevant to melee aiming. I don't care much about the bandit trap spotting, but I do like resistance to pushdown and I do like being able to search out bandits in hiding.

FA+survival is to get as much benefit as possible without skinning bounties. I'd have more if it didn't trigger skinning bounties. Herb RT, resistance to environmental effects, foraging. My herb RT is longer than I like, and I get stuck in the swamps more than I like and another 5 off the foraging roll required wouldn't go amiss either, so every couple of levels one or the other will keep getting a rank. If a character skins, I'll have at least 2x between them, and if I don't want skinning bounties, I'll stop just short of 0.5x between them.

>Since the level of the caster is a major factor for success, you'd prolly want easy access to a nearly capped sorcerer if you were going to make regular use of such imbeds.

points to self

>1) RAISE: When you say Raise you mean that to activate a rod one has to RAISE it? With 120 embeds and 4 charges per rod (which sounds like Kastrel can do 1 4charge rod a minute) you'll need either a lot of charged rods or a sorc on standby to charge them up every day. I'd imagine that a monk is going to want to self cast this spell eventually unless he has an alt who can keep him buffed up with 120.

Raise gives the best duration with the hardest difficulty of activation. As for duration, if you have 35 MIU as I'm thinking you should need for 120 raise imbeds, you would get about 36 minutes per cast which sounds like it would be just short of letting you get two hunts in, given the relatively slow monk hunting style.
________________________________
>Barnom exclaims, "I smell delicious!"
>Barnom says, "Like sage and nutmeg.

>"Walkar says, "Yes, too many kings never work. Especially when there's only one throne. It's a wicked game."
>Shameless plug.

>When imbedding items the person can pick which verb is used to activate them, raise increases the difficulty of using the items but also increases the duration when activating the spell by 50%. Duration is 10 + 30 seconds per rank of magic item use. -- Trouble13

Raise adds 33% to the MIU ranks duration bonus.

>Raise gives the best duration with the hardest difficulty of activation. As for duration, if you have 35 MIU as I'm thinking you should need for 120 raise imbeds, you would get about 36 minutes per cast which sounds like it would be just short of letting you get two hunts in, given the relatively slow monk hunting style. -- Irvinetomoe

That should be very close, depending on stats, for a guaranteed activation.

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DURATIONS:

These are the magical item duration formulas, measured in seconds, for spells (which include 120) that use the new standard durations:

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/1456

Note: A successful activation also requires that the number of MIU ranks equals the spell level (eg., there is a minimum 20 MIU rank requirement to activate an imbed with spell 120).

TAP activator:

600 sec base + [(MIU ranks × 30 x 0.5] or [600 sec base + (MIU ranks * 15)]

RUB and WAVE activators:

600 sec base + [(MIU ranks * 30]

RAISE activator:

600 sec base + [(MIU ranks * 30 * 4/3] or [600 sec base + (MIU ranks * 40)]

EAT/DRINK:

A flat 10 minute duration (eg., Pure Potions). No MIU bonus

Small statues (1712): 1200 sec base + (MIU ranks * 30)

For our hypothetical monk with 35 MIU ranks, using the RAISE activator (40 seconds per MIU rank bonus) with a 120 imbedded wand/rod, the duration will be:

600 sec + (35 * 40) = 2000 sec or 33:20 min

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Activation Succes:

Assuming no encumbrance or armor undertraining penalties, the RAISE activation 'modifiers' total for monks with an imbedded MnS spell is:

(MIU Skill bonus) + (Activation Modifier) + (Stat Modifier) + (Magical Knowledge Bonus) + (INTUITION bonus) + (LOGIC bonus) - (Spell Level * 5) = Modifiers

With 35 MIU ranks (130 skill), 15 WIS, 15 INT and 15 LOG bonuses activating a 120 imbed with RAISE.

MIU Skill: 130
RAISE Activation Modifier: -40
Stat Modifier: Wisdom bonus * 2
Magical Knowledge Bonus: +40 (Monks have access to the minor spirit circle)
Intuition bonus: 15
Logic bonus: 15
Spell level penalty (level * 5): -100 (20 * 5)
Requirement for success: +101 endroll

[130 MIU skill - 40 activation mod + 30 stat mod (WIS * 2) + 40 knowledge bonus + 15 INT bonus + 15 LOG bonus - 100 (spell lev * 5) = +90 'modifiers' total.

A successful activation would require a minimum d100 roll of 11 (1d100: 11 + Modifiers: 90 == +101 endroll).

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I have a rogue (rogues, like monks, have access to MnS spells) with 20 MIU ranks, 17 WIS, 16 LOG and 22 INT. His activation 'modifiers' total 62 with a 120 imbed w/ RAISE activator. With 20 MIU ranks his activation success rate is 62% and would increase to 100% at 34 ranks.

You raise your thin wand skyward!
1d100: 45 + Modifiers: 62 == 107

Mark

Neat thing to know about raising rods. 202 ranks of MIU and a 120 rod being raised is 2 hours of the spell (and training that much MIU benefits all your imbeds including small statues). I'm not doing math right now but i'm wondering what is the cost for 20 spell ranks vs 200 MIU ranks. I still consider the MIU better as it works for all your imbeddibles.


PS should you need 120 imbeds I can meet on teras or FWI or come to a Twilight Hall Magic Mixer. Low level sorcerers can get a bonus imbedding 120 in the guild magic workshop (which is as powerful a bonus as a CHE magic workshop)

The other problem of course is that getting 20 ranks of spells takes only 20 levels; getting 100 ranks of MIU takes 100 levels.

>For every person that will reply saying sure just look me or XXX up and I/they'll do it for you, well in reality that just doesn't ever seem to work out well.

Hey, if someone gives me a time and place that is Landingish or FWI, I'll be there. Bring your own rods. It takes materials and coordination, but I haven't had any people asking despite my offer.
________________________________
>Barnom exclaims, "I smell delicious!"
>Barnom says, "Like sage and nutmeg.

>"Walkar says, "Yes, too many kings never work. Especially when there's only one throne. It's a wicked game."
>Shameless plug.