Good evening!

I am a returning player who has done a lot of reading but I want to make sure I am on the right path. I understand that my 30 day window to change stats as well as my pre-level-20 ability to change skills is nearing an end...so I'd like to make any optimizations I can before then.

I have mainly been following the basic guide here:
https://gswiki.play.net/A_beginner%27s_guide_to_playing_a_cleric

Using the pure warder style, I am pretty happy spamming 302 channel and the results are pretty good, especially if I hunt something at or below my level that doesn't have heavy armor...I can usually fry without even needing to use my society skill to replenish my mana.

Here are my stats so far at level 18 as a Dark Elf:

Stats: Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 76 (13) ... 76 (13)
Constitution (CON): 75 (7) ... 75 (7)
Dexterity (DEX): 64 (17) ... 64 (17)
Agility (AGL): 84 (22) ... 84 (22)
Discipline (DIS): 76 (3) ... 76 (3)
Aura (AUR): 83 (26) ... 83 (26)
Logic (LOG): 69 (9) ... 69 (9)
Intuition (INT): 69 (14) ... 69 (14)
Wisdom (WIS): 96 (28) ... 96 (28)
Influence (INF): 38 (-11) ... 38 (-11)

These stats at 18 evolved from the level 0 beginner's guide recommendation:

""The following stats are a good starting point for the beginning cleric:
Strength:70, Constitution:60, Dexterity:90, Agility:60
Discipline:70, Aura:80
Logic:60, Intuition:60, Wisdom:90, Influence:20
A pure warding caster may set Dexterity substantially lower, taking 30 points and transferring 20 to Agility and 10 to Constitution."" [I DID THIS LAST PART]

Skills:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 140 40
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 90 20
Perception.........................| 90 20
Climbing...........................| 30 6
Swimming...........................| 30 6
First Aid..........................| 45 9

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 4

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 3

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 40
Training Points: 15 Phy 0 Mnt (582 Phy converted to Mnt)

1) With my stats, which I just copied from the beginner's guide, what should I adjust before I hit 20? I'd like to find a balance somewhere between good long-term and short-term goals. I don't know if I will ever hit cap but I'd like to be smart about it but also know that fixstats means my choices now are not going to require me to reroll entirely if I decide I wanted a different outcome.

2) Let's talk skills:
-I think the most debatable here is 2x Harness Power? The beginners guide suggests it but I've seen Rathboner frequently suggested 1x. I was definitely pressed for mana frequently until about level 10 but now I find I have enough and also the society helps a lot when I need to refill my mana before finishing a hunt/bounty. Should I stick with 2x or go down to 1.5x or 1x and why?
-Spiritual Mana Control - I went to 25 to get the multicast - I think I pause this until I get back on 1x path for life, right?
-Perception/Physical Fitness - 1x for life correct?
-Spiritual Lore - Ok so I don't care about chrisms at all - they are easy to buy at a player shop and keep stocked up on so I see no reason to make chrisms a goal until wayyy later. So what's the most optimal path with Religion and then branching out? I read somewhere 40 in Religion, then 25 in each of the other 2, then back to Religion? 1x for life right?
-First Aid - looks like I'm 0.5x in this and I'm wondering if there's any purpose other than to be able to bandage decently...but does this even matter if I'm already at 40 cleric base for the best rez? Should I drop it entirely or aim for some threshold where it's efficient then stop? Or just 0.5x for life?
-Magic Item Use - I am using magic items every now and then...I looked at this and Arcane Symbols and chose to 1x MIU. I always intended to do some Arcane Symbols as well but never really had the points to spare considering how aggressively I was pushing for +21 cleric base. Should I just 1x MIU for life and skip AS or do some combination?
-Climbing/Swimming - Seems like I'm going to do 0.3x until 30 ranks in each - seem fair or should I alter that?
-Other: I'd like to get 10 ranks in stalking and hiding at some point but no rush...seems like a good Quality of Life skill and fun too...especially considering my society. Any other random skills I should dabble in now or down the road that are important/very useful?

3) Spells. Ok this is tough for me. I really miss having every spell available like I used to back in the day. I have sacrificed a lot to get to +21 but now I can 1x cleric base and 1.5-2x the other circles. I know 107/116/120 are important goals but I also would love to get 225 and 130. I was thinking I probably need to go to 120 first then up to 225 before going back to aiming for 130? Any thoughts on how I should aim? I'd like to be able to rescue though I recognize that many places will not be safe for me so maybe I should just save all that for when I am closer to the average player's level.

Thanks to anyone that takes the time to read/address these questions!

1) Here is a stat maximizer: http://www.nitefallz.com/statmax.html. There is also a stat cruncher (TP maximizer) at the link for you to play with.

2) For pures I like to 2x to 50 and then stop so that I am 1x by 100. But if mana is not an issue go to 1x, because of diminishing returns in double training. Yes to SMC, Perception, PF. Religion is the most combat-oriented lore, but the others provide useful abilities at different breakpoints, check out the lorechart: https://gswiki.play.net/Lore_chart. FA, AS, MIU are all pretty cheap, so you should 1x in the ones you use at the minimum. Climbing and Swimming you really only need certain thresholds for certain hunting grounds, 50 is usually sufficient for when you get there. Survival and Trading are also useful skills to consider.

3) You should be able to target the spells you want when you can cast them (225 at level 25, etc.). Then maximize your cleric CS, then fill back your spiritual spells. I would only prioritize the fogging spells if you find a big need for it that you can meet. But 240 is real nice.

<<Others will be along to help with the finer details - but important point. There's no longer a time component (30 days) to this expiration of rapid skill and stat reallocation. It is literally 20th training And you'll be worked during your 20th training (after the 1/2 way point) that you need to start finalizing.

Bottom line - this isn't time sensitive, so no panic.

Doug>>

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Thank you for the heads up on that - I'm not sure I saw that anywhere. I just hit 19 last night so I am getting fairly close!

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<<1) Here is a stat maximizer: http://www.nitefallz.com/statmax.html. There is also a stat cruncher (TP maximizer) at the link for you to play with.

2) For pures I like to 2x to 50 and then stop so that I am 1x by 100. But if mana is not an issue go to 1x, because of diminishing returns in double training. Yes to SMC, Perception, PF. Religion is the most combat-oriented lore, but the others provide useful abilities at different breakpoints, check out the lorechart: https://gswiki.play.net/Lore_chart. FA, AS, MIU are all pretty cheap, so you should 1x in the ones you use at the minimum. Climbing and Swimming you really only need certain thresholds for certain hunting grounds, 50 is usually sufficient for when you get there. Survival and Trading are also useful skills to consider.

3) You should be able to target the spells you want when you can cast them (225 at level 25, etc.). Then maximize your cleric CS, then fill back your spiritual spells. I would only prioritize the fogging spells if you find a big need for it that you can meet. But 240 is real nice. >>

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1) That's for the link - I will check it out tonight.

2) I think you're referring to harness power? I'm hesitant to say mana is not an issue because I'm still only using 302 to hunt. Eventually I hear I will use 312 and 317 and the issue now is that they cost too much relative mana to be worthwhile...so continuing to grow my mana with 2x HP seems like a feasible solution...where it's worth it or not is the question.

I checked out the lore chart and didn't see anything THAT exciting outside of Religion...unless it was very expensive and seems so far away as far as the training path.

FA almost seems not worth it at all...it won't help my skinning much at all even at 1x. Tending wounds is the only reason I think I want it but I could probably get away with just buying those herb potions that I can pour in the corpse to heal them instead? Or just find an empath? Or simply rely on the fact that my rez at 40 cleric ranks gives them enough health to stay alive and deal with it themselves?

I do think I will continue aiming for 0.3x climbing/swimming until 50 ranks then?

3) I think 225 is just a luxury to be honest...I feel like priorities are 107, 116, 120, 215, 219? I'm thinking I will just go to 120 first then aim for 219...then take it from there? Sure I could get those quickly if I drop cleric ranks but the goal is to stay +21 for maximum hunting efficiency, which in the long run will allow me to level faster and get the spells I want down the road. I'm not sure if getting important buffs like 120 and 219 earlier outweigh the +CS from +21 training...right now at 19 I certainly don't feel like I need those spells yet, especially with how strong 319 is.

Thanks again!

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<<1 - Put your race and profession into a stat cruncher and start calculating numbers. Here's the one I like: https://gs4chart.cfapps.io/
2 - SMC only gives you extra mana per pulse every 10 ranks, so take it in thresholds instead of 1x.
3 - Yes on 1x Perception and Physical Fitness.
4 - First Aid would mainly be if you want to get more valuable skins and get skinning bounties.

5 - How much Climbing/Swimming you want depends where you are. I don't know about RR or the Nations, but around the Landing and Solhaven you can get away with 10 ranks each until around level 65-75 when it's time for minos and the Bowels. In Icemule 20-25 Climbing is more important early on, along with Survival.

6 - Assuming you're talking about hiding to use CoL signs, nothing stops you from hiding with 0 ranks. Another option is getting wiregrass bracelets/anklets from rangers and getting Invisibility imbedded in them by wizards.>>

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Thanks for your response!

1) I will work on the stat cruncher tonight
2) Thanks for the tip on SMC! I will definitely try that out.
3) Roger
4) I heard even 1x first aid isn't enough to skin well at equal level and I don't want to do more than 0.5x...so it sounds like I should just drop it altogether and rely on potions for tending wounds before rez? What I'm wondering is if there's some threshold I should get to and then just stop?
5) I'd like to have decent ability to climb/swim wherever I go and 0.3x seems like a good way to approach that conservatively.
6) I just remember that having the ability to be better/faster at hiding was a nice quality of life thing, not necessarily for CoL because you could just go to an empty room usually...especially since there are far less people playing these days than 20 years ago

Thanks again everyone!

To skin well you'd need either 2x First Aid or 1x First Aid plus 0.5x or more Survival. I went 1x in First Aid and Survival from 20 to cap, which also helps with making foraging a snap (especially because you can sanct), but not everybody enjoys bounties for foraging or especially skinning.

If you only want First Aid for tending then there isn't any particular threshold. You could get a feel for it by using diagnose full until you find something reasonable, but IMO, if you're set on not going past 0.5x then you'd be disappointed by your tending ability and RT even at level 80--if not level 100. Either way, though, you should generally be taking a person to get healed before raising anyway unless you're somewhere you can't fog or drag from.





As for 2x Harness Power, it's all about comparing it to other options for the same amount of TPs.

128/0 into Harness Power at 2x costs = 8 mana up front and 1.2 mana per pulse (out in the field, but 2 mana per pulse on a node)
128/0 into Cleric base at 3x costs (when breaking past the level +21 mark) = 1 cleric CS
128/0 into other spell circles at 3x costs = new spells! ...and 0.67 cleric CS.

(...and, just for fun because you're thinking about it, 130/0 = 10 ranks of Stalking and Hiding. :P)


IMO new spells are top priority up to 120 and 219 (arguably you don't need 219 for quite a while either if you're getting outside spells), but mana vs. CS is a tougher question. From my experience I'd say it depends what stance you're usually in. There's incentive to push CS since channeling doesn't have benefits if you don't hit in the first place, but for guarded and maybe neutral the benefits are minor enough that I'd lean toward the mana. Anything more offensive and I'd say take the CS.

Thanks again for all the responses! I should hit 20 in the next few hours and I've decided (hopefully with good reason!) to aim to maximize my TPs around 50. I have no clue if I will ever make it to cap and 50 seems like a good long-term goal for now. Should I near cap I think a fixstats is in order. It's hard to imagine suffering for 50+ levels by tanking Wisdom in order to maximize it years(?)later? I'd rather just optimize more near-term and pay for it with a fixstats.

Anyways, here's what I went with - please feel free to share thoughts:


Strength (STR): 70
Constitution (CON): 65
Dexterity (DEX): 50
Agility (AGI): 65
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 80
Logic (LOG): 75
Intuition (INT): 85
Wisdom (WIS): 80
Influence (INF): 20

Happy Thanksgiving!

The stats on my hardcore cleric (dwarf, pure smite build, Voln) at the moment are

Strength (STR): 62
Constitution (CON): 62
Dexterity (DEX): 20
Agility (AGI): 88
Discipline (DIS): 60
Aura (AUR): 82
Logic (LOG): 92
Intuition (INT): 80
Wisdom (WIS): 94
Influence (INF): 20

There are minor adjustments planned (WIS is set to be 100 all the way to level 20, but I'll drop it to somewhere it comes back up to 100 around level 40-50 assuming I last to level 20, but this is pretty close to long term setting now)

...

Training (level 15) is

Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 78 17
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 50 10
Harness Power......................| 78 17
Spirit Mana Control................| 45 9
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 70 15
Perception.........................| 35 7
Climbing...........................| 20 4
Swimming...........................| 10 2
First Aid..........................| 30 6
Trading............................| 10 2

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 4

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 7

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 35


(SMC is 9 to avoid an odd mana pulse, I blew my nerves once too often smiting with 1 mana so training is tweaked to avoid ending up on 1 mana while hunting, its heading to 25 at 18)