1) Depends which stats you are talking about. WIS is extremely important and well worth setting to max early. Nothing else comes close in importance to it. DEX grows very slowly on clerics and extremely slowly on dwarf clerics. If you are bolting you will want to be starting it somewhere in the 90s. If you don't need DEX for bolt AS or weapon speed, that's a lot of points you can put into other stats.

2) what do you want to do? They can all work, but the things you need by way of training and tactics to get going are rather different.

If its first pure as well as first cleric, I'd train spell aim. If its an alt I want to be an accomplished raiser as soon as possible, I wouldn't.

Reply Reply Delete Delete
>>Throgg usually has some good advice when it comes to swinging pure classes.<<

Ooooh! Namedropping! My ears are burning!

Having had a weapon using cleric, mage, empath and even sorcerer, I can say that clerics probably come in third in terms of physical combat effectiveness. That's because mages have the whole (e-wave + haste) thing, and empaths have better buffs as far as AS boosting spells. Clerics do have an advantage, however, in having cheaper training costs for weapons skills. Their crowd control spells are also better than the empaths; 316 is far superior to 1120 because of the longer duration of effect.

If you want to be in character, train in polearms and for your weapon, use ... a Hammer of Kai! OK, not the best polearm, but decent, and training polearms will let you use a lance as well, possibly the hardest hitting weapon in the game. To use a lance properly, you will need a high agi/dex bonus total, however.

As a weapon user, you will, of course, also want to train in CM, and get 211 and 215 sooner than usual for the weapon AS buffing effect. A training scheme like this will probably leave no room for spell aiming.

On the other hand, a cleric is probably most effective in combat as a pure caster. In which case, if you go that route the above discussion is irrelevant. As a pure caster, you WILL want to train in spell aiming; make sure you have a decent dexterity since this factors directly into your bolt AS, and dwarven dex bonus is less than other, more spry, races. At the upper end of the level scale, you may find creatures whom you cannot hit with warding spells, but are vulnerable to bolts. Vathors come to mind.


"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

>>anything i have completely bonked?

Depending on where you hunt you are going to want some climb/swim. And 1x perception is always a good idea for getting around and its other uses, but at least 30 ranks.

No SMC, you'll want this for raising and sharing, likely 25 ranks at the very least, most clerics 1x it.

No idea what stat cruncher you used. I'd suggest something along the lines of these for stats:

STR	62	100
CON	62	100
DEX	92	100
AGL	88	100
DIS	58	100
AUR	82	100
LOG	62	100
INT	62	100
WIS	72	100
INF	20	70

I used this site to help with stats: http://web.archive.org/web/20130518122455/http://home.mchsi.com/~cphillips73/StatCruncher/StatCruncher.html

this maybe a newbie question, but what is the difference between the
stat cruncher:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130601060205/http://home.mchsi.com/~cphillips73/StatCruncher/GS4/StatCruncher.html

and

stat maximizer
http://web.archive.org/web/20130601144508/http://home.mchsi.com/~cphillips73/StatCruncher/GS4/StatMaximizer/StatMaximizer.html

because the numbers i am getting are wildly diffrenet

They optimise for different things

Stat cruncher optimises for training points
stat maximiser optimises for growth

for the shield builds to you have to do shield/weapon or could you just train shield use?

>>Make sure you train in Pole Arms, so you can use a Hammer of Kai. <<

That was my advice, plagarist! Advice which the OP promptly ignored, btw.

>>If you are looking to just use a shield for defense or RP reasons and have no real desire to train a weapon skill<<

That's an interesting concept. Your shield taking the place of a runestaff ... keeping one hand open for channeling. It should work; the drawback is the loss of TPs you will need to invest, since a runestaff functions without any specific skill. The plus side is not having to worry about being disarmed.

The Bells of Hell
go ding-a-ling-a-ling
for you, but not for me.

>i know i would lose out on the flares from runestaffs but other then that not seeing a huge problem.

The main reason for having a runestaff rather than weapon/shield is that you have to sink more TPs into generating your DS if you do it with weapon/shield. You are either going without DS, or you are going without TPs, thats the real loss, not going without flares.

I went and pulled out my cleric for some DS checks. Checks are both in guarded stance since that's the stance you will be spending a lot of time in; 5x large shield vs 4x runestaff. Also note that 319 takes effect before the AS:DS attack is resolved, even though he has no chance of hitting me; I'll need to recast it.

>>
Xygon positions himself to attack you.
The evanescent shield shrouding you flares to life and absorbs the oncoming blow.
>'arg
You say, "Arg."
>
You feel more refreshed.
>'Forgot about that
You say, "Forgot about that."
>'try again
You say, "Try again."
Xygon swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +194 vs DS: +451 with AvD: +4 + d100 roll: +95 = -158
A clean miss.
>stow r
You put a gold-capped orase runestaff in your spidersilk backpack.
>rem aeg
You sling a squared black aegis banded and reinforced with hammered vultite off from over your shoulder.
>'again
You say, "Again."
>
Xygon drops all defense as he moves into a battle-ready stance.
>
Xygon swings a closed fist at you!
With blinding speed, you block the attack with your aegis!
>
Xygon swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +388 vs DS: +515 with AvD: +4 + d100 roll: +28 = -95
A clean miss.<<

OK, and here's the training I have.

>>
skill
Guenhafyr (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 201 101
Combat Maneuvers...................| 201 101
Brawling...........................| 201 101
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 96 22
Magic Item Use.....................| 114 28
Harness Power......................| 202 102
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 50 10
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 163 63
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 150 50
Swimming...........................| 170 70
First Aid..........................| 180 80

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 67

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 67

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 166
Training Points: 18 Phy 0 Mnt (1588 Phy converted to Mnt)<<

You will notice that I have no spell aiming and lack a lot of both blessing and summoning lore. I could bulk up on all of those if I dropped brawling and shield. Basically you have to ask yourself if an extra 65 DS at cap is worth sacrificing those other skills. A side benefit is that I am immune to being disarmed and weaponfire. Those attacks are not terribly common, however. (Although those damned Taladoran Mages tore up my THW wielding capped empath with weaponfire spells, so you never know).