So these are located at (for example):
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/professions/wizards.asp
I have my bookmark set to 'Bard', because that's the one that I research training point costs and fiddle with. [Heh; see what I did there?]
.
Down at the bottom of the page, the three links are similar to the top: Previous - Professions - Next.
However, there are some differences:
- the middle one, Professions, pretty much always takes you to the page with the pretty tiled illustrations of each profession; no quibbles here;
- the bottom set, though, works differently from the top set (on the bottom, 'previous' is enabled on the Bard page and does take you to Wizard; on the bottom, 'next' is enabled on the Wizard page and does take you to Bard);
- the bottom set, sequential use of the 'previous' link does NOT take you to the Warrior or Sorcerer page at all, they just get skipped right over (the top set does hit those);
- the bottom set, sequential use of the 'next' link does NOT take you to Ranger or Rogue at all (skips them straight to Sorcerer and then Warrior), AND the 'next' from Warrior never gets you to Wizard, it loops you back to Paladin.
Seems like it might need to be fixed.
KRAKII
LUXELLE
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/29/2016 12:54 PM CDT
Krakii:
All of the information pages about GS were unlinked around the time F2P was announced. The only way to access these pages now is from a bookmark or with a Google Search.
The web site menu has the wiki link on it, but nothing else.
I think all the information on those pages was transferred well before they did away with them, so the information is not missing, it's just presented in a wiki format instead.
So I got the impression that the web pages are no longer maintained, and only the wiki ones are being updated. I could be wrong there, but that seems to me to be the only reason to remove them from the GS web site menus.
... and don't mistake me knowing this for supporting it in the LEAST. :( A wiki is one thing. Information that defines the basics of the lore and choices of the game is something else. It's just one more thing that stands in the way of someone new to GS. :(
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
All of the information pages about GS were unlinked around the time F2P was announced. The only way to access these pages now is from a bookmark or with a Google Search.
The web site menu has the wiki link on it, but nothing else.
I think all the information on those pages was transferred well before they did away with them, so the information is not missing, it's just presented in a wiki format instead.
So I got the impression that the web pages are no longer maintained, and only the wiki ones are being updated. I could be wrong there, but that seems to me to be the only reason to remove them from the GS web site menus.
... and don't mistake me knowing this for supporting it in the LEAST. :( A wiki is one thing. Information that defines the basics of the lore and choices of the game is something else. It's just one more thing that stands in the way of someone new to GS. :(
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
KRAKII
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/29/2016 02:00 PM CDT
Ahh, ALL of them. <nod> I'd been told elsewhere that the spell pages were undone, but I didn't take away that all of those info pages were now dead. Thanks!
LUXELLE
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 12:30 AM CDT
The bright side of this is that the new wiki searches are MUCH better, and will include the newest information for existing players.
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
DAID
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 08:50 AM CDT
>... and don't mistake me knowing this for supporting it in the LEAST. :( A wiki is one thing. Information that defines the basics of the lore and choices of the game is something else. It's just one more thing that stands in the way of someone new to GS. :(
I basically support it. It might be a good idea to have some more locked wiki pages that define official stances on various clutch topics, but overall the wiki is much more in-depth than the website ever was. And while I don't have specific examples at just this moment, there were things on the website that were out-dated by years or in fact just always wrong. So far as I know, changing things on the website is only something that could be done by local people. The wiki has a very significant advantage in that sense.
One area I would like to get around to double checking is the Flora Guide: https://www.play.net/gs4/info/flora/home.asp
But, even some of this has definitely been moved over to the wiki by a GM: https://gswiki.play.net/A_Speech_Unspoken:_The_Language_of_Flowers
That particular article can be considered a perfect example where something from the website was moved to the wiki, and why I fully support shifting over to the wiki entirely, and exactly how to do it.
I basically support it. It might be a good idea to have some more locked wiki pages that define official stances on various clutch topics, but overall the wiki is much more in-depth than the website ever was. And while I don't have specific examples at just this moment, there were things on the website that were out-dated by years or in fact just always wrong. So far as I know, changing things on the website is only something that could be done by local people. The wiki has a very significant advantage in that sense.
One area I would like to get around to double checking is the Flora Guide: https://www.play.net/gs4/info/flora/home.asp
But, even some of this has definitely been moved over to the wiki by a GM: https://gswiki.play.net/A_Speech_Unspoken:_The_Language_of_Flowers
That particular article can be considered a perfect example where something from the website was moved to the wiki, and why I fully support shifting over to the wiki entirely, and exactly how to do it.
LUXELLE
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 12:29 PM CDT
>> but overall the wiki is much more in-depth than the website ever was.
For someone new, or looking at the game, the web site pages, old as they were, made a much better initial presentation and resource.
... that's really my only point. I know the wiki has more information, is (now) searchable, has updated information, cross linked, etc. For existing players, once you understand that things are on the wiki and how it works, the wiki is highly superior.
I'm one of the wiki's fan club members! :)
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
For someone new, or looking at the game, the web site pages, old as they were, made a much better initial presentation and resource.
... that's really my only point. I know the wiki has more information, is (now) searchable, has updated information, cross linked, etc. For existing players, once you understand that things are on the wiki and how it works, the wiki is highly superior.
I'm one of the wiki's fan club members! :)
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
DMWCINCY
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 01:20 PM CDT
The other issue with the wiki is that it really is resource overload and not really geared towards a newbie. As a mentor I do speak with newbies and I do get the occasion when a true newbie is utterly lost and even more confused by the wiki. I will always say its awesome we do have the mentor program and my fellow mentors do a great job of helping here as well as several players that do help donate their time to true newbies. Still there are some that sadly get missed. I know there are newbie guides but sadly they are really written a lot of times with the impression you at least know the basics. Unless I missed it (which is possible as I dont study the wiki as much as I should to be able to help others better) there could be more work done to make a few guides that speak only of the basics and not dive into professional basics.
VANKRASN39
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 01:31 PM CDT
>The other issue with the wiki is that it really is resource overload and not really geared towards a newbie.
That's why I made the new player category, and that is now linked on the left navigation column under New Player Info.
https://gswiki.play.net/Category:New_Player
DMWCINCY
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 01:51 PM CDT
Ok let me try this one more time. It is data overload. Looking at the page and the basic mechanics link all it is is a list of a TON of links. A basics page that gives just the basics is needed not a list of a ton of links.
VANKRASN39
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 01:53 PM CDT
>Looking at the page and the basic mechanics link all it is is a list of a TON of links.
if you stick to the NEW PLAYER CATEGORY and only read applicable articles (discount all other profession/town guides) it's not that much. I said nothing about going to basic mechanics.
DOUG
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 02:10 PM CDT
I think we all ingest information differently.
I like V's delineation, but I'm a bit old hand. I recognize for folks (like my kids and grandkids!) that I bring along to these lands, there hasn't yet been an ideal way to get all the info they need to them - but then I'm involved, too. . . so maybe it's me. We should just ask them. Um. . . no, wait. . .
At any rate, I am all on board with supporting any other well structured view that can orient new players. I just don't know what it would be.
Doug
I like V's delineation, but I'm a bit old hand. I recognize for folks (like my kids and grandkids!) that I bring along to these lands, there hasn't yet been an ideal way to get all the info they need to them - but then I'm involved, too. . . so maybe it's me. We should just ask them. Um. . . no, wait. . .
At any rate, I am all on board with supporting any other well structured view that can orient new players. I just don't know what it would be.
Doug
VANKRASN39
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
09/30/2016 02:22 PM CDT
Zhouy1 actually transferred this page from play.net and added helpful screenshots.
https://gswiki.play.net/New_Players%27_Guide
DAID
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
10/05/2016 12:45 PM CDT
Honestly, when it comes to information overload, I think the fact is that the game is quite complicated.
Also, when I started playing there was only a handful of guides and I don't think I knew about any of them. True, some aspects of the game were simpler then, but for the most part I don't think the complexity level has changed in a meaningful way.
Whether a guide has information presented nice and tidy or in all its glory ... people need to play the game. And even since this thread was created I learned something new of not small importance about the game.
Far from saying it's hopeless -- maybe we do need some simpler starter guides -- I'm just saying it is what it is. I was usually the type when renting a video game to at best read the manual page on button arrangements and play for a while first before (/ if ever) reading the manual.
It could just be that we are suggesting people to actually read guides much too soon, and they should explore the game a bit first, while knowing that guides exist as soon a s they have a question specific enough to be answered, rather than spending several days reading about playing the game rather than actually playing.
Also, when I started playing there was only a handful of guides and I don't think I knew about any of them. True, some aspects of the game were simpler then, but for the most part I don't think the complexity level has changed in a meaningful way.
Whether a guide has information presented nice and tidy or in all its glory ... people need to play the game. And even since this thread was created I learned something new of not small importance about the game.
Far from saying it's hopeless -- maybe we do need some simpler starter guides -- I'm just saying it is what it is. I was usually the type when renting a video game to at best read the manual page on button arrangements and play for a while first before (/ if ever) reading the manual.
It could just be that we are suggesting people to actually read guides much too soon, and they should explore the game a bit first, while knowing that guides exist as soon a s they have a question specific enough to be answered, rather than spending several days reading about playing the game rather than actually playing.
KANDOR
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
10/10/2016 09:08 PM CDT
I think many of the existing wiki pages already work this way, but putting a basic overview "above the line" and restricting tables and details below the line would do a lot to help newer players understand the basics (a la the older official documentation) without wading through details they aren't looking for. I think most of the pages are organized very well, but some of them do jump into details pretty quickly.
DOUG
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
10/10/2016 09:10 PM CDT
>>I think most of the pages are organized very well, but some of them do jump into details pretty quickly.
Inclined to agree, but also think that most of the basic pages don't suffer from this.
I like the 'above the fold' brief summary idea even on advanced pages, though. Maybe in a couple of months I'll pick it up as another project for myself.
Doug
Inclined to agree, but also think that most of the basic pages don't suffer from this.
I like the 'above the fold' brief summary idea even on advanced pages, though. Maybe in a couple of months I'll pick it up as another project for myself.
Doug
DAID
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
10/11/2016 08:31 AM CDT
A little off topic, but I wanted to take the project with the expanding text to spoiler pages first and foremost, and have all the spoiler information hidden by default.
DOUG
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
10/11/2016 10:51 AM CDT
If that's to me, absolutely - as long as there's not a pronoun missing in that sentence. ;)
Doug
Doug
DAID
Re: GemStone page, 'profession' (with description, skill costs, &c.)
10/14/2016 09:21 AM CDT
I think you were one of the first ones tinkering with that kind of hiding feature on gswiki.
It wasn't directed at anyone, though. Sure, I would like to do it, but you know, if someone else did it first, I won't complain. The spoiler pages are already tagged so it should be fairly straight forward.
While I think the Spoiler banner is of great value, it kind of doesn't work well if someone doesn't want a spoiler but wants some information nonetheless.
It wasn't directed at anyone, though. Sure, I would like to do it, but you know, if someone else did it first, I won't complain. The spoiler pages are already tagged so it should be fairly straight forward.
While I think the Spoiler banner is of great value, it kind of doesn't work well if someone doesn't want a spoiler but wants some information nonetheless.
