DS works for pures with I believe its 8 ranks of magic skills to get your DS up. That includes lores. For a square they would need to train in THW. But for a caster as long as you train 2 spells, HP, AS, MnS, spell aim, and 2 lores your DS will rise each level as long as you train for it. I don't know if you are planning on swinging that runestaff but if you are then you will need THW training, otherwise, just train in magic. I hope this makes sense.

I haven't crunched a ton of numbers on this, but I've got a broken magically trained rogue (1x in spells and all that jazz) that is fully trained in THW and all I can tell you is my DS when holding a 4x Runestaff is a whole heckuva a lot less than it is holding a 4x Quarterstaff... so my findings is that runestaffs always take your magical skills into account when generating your DS rather than weapon skill, even if they act like quarterstaves when swung (which, ahem, I am not totally sold on when it comes to ambushing). My guess for the reasoning behind this is people like me.

I was trying to abuse flaring runestaffs and the ability to parry bolts and all that fun stuff, all while standing in swarms mstriking and ambushing until my black little heart was content.

Yes, for the record, even with the tanked DS it can be pretty fun. That is what Wall of Force and small statues are for, amiright?

.jaired
>LIKE A BOSS
Please rephrase that command.

>>They don't interact, you get one or the other formula.

Although there are similarities in the formulas, runestaff DS wipes the floor with THW DS for pures, even pretty mutant ones. You get shield like bonuses just for holding a runestaff, which you don't get for the THW, so although the training part of the formula is the same at 1x THW and 8x magic skill, the runestaff has substantially higher DS.

Stand in front of an arbalester and you might adjust your views on the situations in which you would hold a runestaff. Missile defense for THW pures is utterly horrible.<<

We have this discussion periodically. Yes, runstaves count as THWs, and can be used that way, although their damage factor sucks. Many years ago, I met a warrior who insisted he was a mage, and used a runestaff as a THW. He went around in robes, m-striking critters with his runestaff.

He was, of course, quite insane.

Other than that rather spectacular exception, I haven't met any squares (or semis for that matter) who go around using runestaves. Hmm, there's a concept; a runestaff using pure spell casting bard. I wonder if anyone has done that. Most magic using bards seem to go with shields.

Situation is important. I have a THW using empath who also carries around a normal 4x runestaff in addition to her 7x flail. She pulls out the runestaff when facing foes that can bolt/hurl, then disarms the foe, changes over to her flail, and whacks them over the head (she can even use focused m-strike! Wheeee! Umm, ok, serious mutant warning!).

Also, professional training point costs matter. I have a pure casting cleric who doesn't use a runestaff. Why? Because clerical TP costs for weapons and such are less than for any other "pure" profession. She has 101 ranks of shield, 101 ranks of brawling, more magical skill ranks than you can shake a stick at, and her self spelled DS (with a statue and symbol of protection) is preposterously high; well over 600 (without WoF). And you CAN be disarmed while holding a runestaff; you can't be disarmed when using an open hand. Oh, and just so you know, DS vs missiles is poorer than vs hand held weapons for just about everyone.


The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me

The last lot of runestaff upgrades made it quite attractive for pure bards to use one.

Not just any ol' runestaff, either: Bards can sing up a Sonic Weapon Runestaff, and get the awesome air-flares that Song dishes out.

I'm at 6.5 magic ranks per level on my Bard, currently.

See, I was kind of hoping that a pure who trained for runestaff DS and then added THW ranks on top would get an increase in parry DS. I suppose this isn't the case then?

Umm, ok let me rephrase that; as mentioned before, my empath has trained in a bunch of magic skills, as well as CM and THW, so she can use either a THW or a runestaff, as the situation requires.

The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me