The issue also clearly should involve repercussions. It needs a rethink and could include the existing jail mechanics, but removing the potential to lose all your items by being arrested would be a good first step.
CRIME
KRAKII
Re: I think I covered a lot more than simple theft.
12/25/2016 02:52 PM CST
I still think that the skill, and verb, should be completely removed. The ONLY thing that it is useful for, is engendering ill-will and starting CvC/potentially leading to PvP.
Why even keep it? Why put it in in the first place? RoleMaster had something like 100 different skills in their sourcebooks, why choose one that is deliberately harmful?
Why even keep it? Why put it in in the first place? RoleMaster had something like 100 different skills in their sourcebooks, why choose one that is deliberately harmful?
CRIME
Re: I think I covered a lot more than simple theft.
12/25/2016 04:02 PM CST
That's pretty much one of the less thought out replies I've heard. Teefs that can't teef, pffft.
That reminds me, it was FUN to steal from merchants, why in the world is that removed!
That reminds me, it was FUN to steal from merchants, why in the world is that removed!
KRAKII
Re: I think I covered a lot more than simple theft.
12/25/2016 04:35 PM CST
Note that they changed the profession name from 'Thief' to 'Rogue'. :)
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The NPCs never had all that much silver.
And I never found a single merchant--not in-town merchants, who don't really have anything worth steeling (and I'm not convinced you could, anyhow)... but merchant-merchants, who do--that I could successfully steel from.
Which left PCs. Starting CvC, and possibly leading to PvP, like I said.
.
You used to be able to machine-gun steal (thus the "MT in TSW!" thoughts when Sagan and Harcourt and Kree would strip everyone dry), with no chance of getting gems or other trinkets that required you to put something away.
Note that they changed that, too.
And yet they made it possible to pocket things without people seeing the explicit action. Never understood that.
.
I say again: the ONLY thing the skill was ever any actual use for, was engendering ill-will. Ticking off other players.
.
The NPCs never had all that much silver.
And I never found a single merchant--not in-town merchants, who don't really have anything worth steeling (and I'm not convinced you could, anyhow)... but merchant-merchants, who do--that I could successfully steel from.
Which left PCs. Starting CvC, and possibly leading to PvP, like I said.
.
You used to be able to machine-gun steal (thus the "MT in TSW!" thoughts when Sagan and Harcourt and Kree would strip everyone dry), with no chance of getting gems or other trinkets that required you to put something away.
Note that they changed that, too.
And yet they made it possible to pocket things without people seeing the explicit action. Never understood that.
.
I say again: the ONLY thing the skill was ever any actual use for, was engendering ill-will. Ticking off other players.
DVDMORSE
Re: I think I covered a lot more than simple theft.
12/25/2016 04:56 PM CST
>>I still think that the skill, and verb, should be completely removed. The ONLY thing that it is useful for, is engendering ill-will and starting CvC/potentially leading to PvP.
I completely agree with Robert on this one. Theft is only fun for the thief, and it's very frustrating to have a lower-level character being stolen from and be able to do nothing about it--you can't retaliate because the higher-level thief will squash you, accusing the thief is no guarantee that he or she will be arrested, and even if the arrest does happen or if you are able to retaliate somehow your items are not returned to you. Just get rid of the skill completely.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
I completely agree with Robert on this one. Theft is only fun for the thief, and it's very frustrating to have a lower-level character being stolen from and be able to do nothing about it--you can't retaliate because the higher-level thief will squash you, accusing the thief is no guarantee that he or she will be arrested, and even if the arrest does happen or if you are able to retaliate somehow your items are not returned to you. Just get rid of the skill completely.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
PFLATS
Re: I think I covered a lot more than simple theft.
12/25/2016 07:10 PM CST
I have never had fun pickpocketing.
I was literally never caught (short of the few times I OOC-ly pushed my luck on RL friends to mess around) but I can't imagine being caught is fun. The two or three my pickpocketer caught someone and I tried to RP it out, there was no interest from the other party. (I could have just accused them or picked a fight, but that's not how you treat a fellow fingersmith.)
So like Crime says, anytime there's a more interesting skill to train, I dropped pickpocketing.
Honestly, it felt like I was just bullying people. Two fixskills ago, I finally bit the bullet and droppped the skill down to 0, even though it was a central part of my character's RP (that I never actually got to RP out in any depth). Those ranks are even harder to justify if you're not a rogue.
Maybe once he caps, I'll trot it back out again, but I imagine that'll only make things worse, not better.
When you succeed at pickpocketing, you get a pretty weak reward and very little feeling of satisfaction. It's not like TF2 where backstabbing someone with a spy means you outplayed them, it just means you trained enough ranks of pickpocket to not get caught.
And I've never seen a failed pickpocket go so well that I thought, "Wow, that's a cool interaction. I'm glad this skill exists."
I don't have a solution. Just generally disappointed with the skill.
I was literally never caught (short of the few times I OOC-ly pushed my luck on RL friends to mess around) but I can't imagine being caught is fun. The two or three my pickpocketer caught someone and I tried to RP it out, there was no interest from the other party. (I could have just accused them or picked a fight, but that's not how you treat a fellow fingersmith.)
So like Crime says, anytime there's a more interesting skill to train, I dropped pickpocketing.
Honestly, it felt like I was just bullying people. Two fixskills ago, I finally bit the bullet and droppped the skill down to 0, even though it was a central part of my character's RP (that I never actually got to RP out in any depth). Those ranks are even harder to justify if you're not a rogue.
Maybe once he caps, I'll trot it back out again, but I imagine that'll only make things worse, not better.
When you succeed at pickpocketing, you get a pretty weak reward and very little feeling of satisfaction. It's not like TF2 where backstabbing someone with a spy means you outplayed them, it just means you trained enough ranks of pickpocket to not get caught.
And I've never seen a failed pickpocket go so well that I thought, "Wow, that's a cool interaction. I'm glad this skill exists."
I don't have a solution. Just generally disappointed with the skill.
CLOS
Re: I think I covered a lot more than simple theft.
12/25/2016 08:19 PM CST
I am of the opinion every profession guild should offer profession-centric bounties, but that would be a large conversation, in regards to rogues this would mean:
- stealing from NPCs (and thus reviving pickpocketing as a skill)
- assassinations
- attacking merchants (think the inverse of protect the traveler AG bounties, and hunt bandit bounties)
- safe cracking
I agree with the assessment that stealing from PCs is a waste of everyone's time, especially if a capped rogue is stealing from some level 10 character, it was made for a different world when the level disparities were not so egregious (and Spider Temple was one of the highest places you might be hunting)
- stealing from NPCs (and thus reviving pickpocketing as a skill)
- assassinations
- attacking merchants (think the inverse of protect the traveler AG bounties, and hunt bandit bounties)
- safe cracking
I agree with the assessment that stealing from PCs is a waste of everyone's time, especially if a capped rogue is stealing from some level 10 character, it was made for a different world when the level disparities were not so egregious (and Spider Temple was one of the highest places you might be hunting)
