Can we please make a version of this spell that can be cast on metal armors? Or, preferably that is really just Barkskin if we cast it on ourselves?
I never use this spell, and that is a problem because it is taking up our 20th level spot. Why, might you ask? Because I wear augmented chain mail and I don't train in lores.
I'm not saying erase the current functionality, but please make our 20th level spell at least somewhat useful to all rangers. Personally, I'd rather have Barkskin than whatever it is that we have now.
KALAH
DMWCINCY
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 05:46 AM CDT
I like the concept of 620 but feel like it could use a full review. Besides metal we also cant cast on scripted items plus SMS training due to padding requirements. Scripted armor and padding is more common now then the time this spell was created.
EREK
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 09:54 AM CDT
It's possible that changes in the game systems have outpaced the original intent of this (and possibly other) ranger spell(s).
I've really only used 620 once, and that was to add some cold resist to an alt's armor, knowing the alt would be spending some time fighting creatures that produced ice/cold damage. What I found was that the prep time to get the armor resist functional (the foraging of the ingredients and making of the potions) wasn't TOO bad, but didn't seem like an activity I'd want to do often, especially given that I don't see a big market in adding resistances, given most classes are training past leather.
Two suggestions I'd offer would be to remove restrictions on leather, and also find some easier method to produce the components. i.e. maybe the allow the ranger to create the potion themselves, vs. running around and trying to get several hermits to do them at once.
I have a similar problem with IMBUE (614), in that the amount of blank embeddables dropping in the treasure system has reduced (if not eliminated) the need to ask a ranger for a rod/wand or wearable. I never see "looking for a ranger to create some embeddables!" out there.
I've really only used 620 once, and that was to add some cold resist to an alt's armor, knowing the alt would be spending some time fighting creatures that produced ice/cold damage. What I found was that the prep time to get the armor resist functional (the foraging of the ingredients and making of the potions) wasn't TOO bad, but didn't seem like an activity I'd want to do often, especially given that I don't see a big market in adding resistances, given most classes are training past leather.
Two suggestions I'd offer would be to remove restrictions on leather, and also find some easier method to produce the components. i.e. maybe the allow the ranger to create the potion themselves, vs. running around and trying to get several hermits to do them at once.
I have a similar problem with IMBUE (614), in that the amount of blank embeddables dropping in the treasure system has reduced (if not eliminated) the need to ask a ranger for a rod/wand or wearable. I never see "looking for a ranger to create some embeddables!" out there.
OM1E5GA
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 10:19 AM CDT
I agree the spell is a good concept, but the way it's been implemented makes it both too much of a hassle to bother with and undesirable to have on armor given the trend for players to enhance their equipment as much as possible. The spell is also inconsistent when compared to 625 and 935.Just some of my own thoughts on the spell after reading previous posts and the wiki entry for the spell:
-I like the idea that rangers are encouraged to wear brig or lower armor, the game already encourages professions that conceptually shouldn't be in chain to move into that ASG way too much (I know of sorcerers that wear chain for crying out loud). If this spell were better implemented it would make the lower ASG armors more attractive, esp in places like the Confluence.
-It's a temp enhancement but has more difficult training requirements then 735 and 925, which is are permanent enhancements. The training requirements for 735 and 925 are almost all things those profession are going to be training in anyway just to hunt, they can just train more in them to become more proficient. While SMC and Blessings only improve the spell and aren't requirements, they're both skills only dedicated weed mages are going to be heavily trained in and most other rangers will have to sacrifice in other areas to get. Blessings is probably even ignored completely in favor of Summoning until near/post cap by most.
-Its component requirements are completely out of whack with 925/735. The temp version of 735, while limited to sorcerers, doesn't require any components at all and even the permanent version only requires that the sorcerer hunt (an activity they'd do anyway) and only requires one pour of a potion if ensorcelling an enhansive or sanctified item. 925 requires potions that are freely available unless the item to be enchanted is flaring or sanctified. 620, on the other hand, requires multiple potions to be made one at a time with ingredients that must be foraged from specific areas (if you want fire resistance in RR, you need to travel to Teras to get the plant, for example) regardless of the item's properties. Again, this is comparing a temporary enhancement to permanent ones, if anything it should be easier to put on, not more difficult.
-925/735 are perm enhancements that can be placed on even most high end gear and both benefit almost every hunting situation, 620 is a temp enhancement that is severely limited both by ASG and item properties and it's benefit is situational. I get that wizards/sorcerers are pures while rangers are semis, but it should at least go in Catagory C of item properties for the ASGs it's eligible for.
-In addition to the component requirements, it requires multiple pours/casts with decent RTs for each to put it on the armor and yields no EXP. 735, on the other hand, only needs to be CHANNELed at the item with a 3 sec RT and grants EXP.
-As a temp enhancement, there should be a way to remove it from the armor. If someone moves from Icemule to Teras (for example), they're going to want to switch their resistance type. It would be nice if there was a way to do this other then wearing it while being subjected to the relevant elemental damage. Possibly allowing 119 to strip it when cast directly at the armor or via a potion one can purchase from the ranger guild.
-625 should remain a temp enhancement. Most players prefer keeping and improving their existing armor rather then being forced to switch it out as they level, making it perm would require them to switch out their armor as they move to new hunting grounds. Changes should be made to reflect that it's temp rather then making it perm to justify the current process. That most rangers don't even bother putting a level 20 temp enhancement on their own armor shows that the cost (in terms of time and effort) to put it on out-weighs the benefit it gives.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
-I like the idea that rangers are encouraged to wear brig or lower armor, the game already encourages professions that conceptually shouldn't be in chain to move into that ASG way too much (I know of sorcerers that wear chain for crying out loud). If this spell were better implemented it would make the lower ASG armors more attractive, esp in places like the Confluence.
-It's a temp enhancement but has more difficult training requirements then 735 and 925, which is are permanent enhancements. The training requirements for 735 and 925 are almost all things those profession are going to be training in anyway just to hunt, they can just train more in them to become more proficient. While SMC and Blessings only improve the spell and aren't requirements, they're both skills only dedicated weed mages are going to be heavily trained in and most other rangers will have to sacrifice in other areas to get. Blessings is probably even ignored completely in favor of Summoning until near/post cap by most.
-Its component requirements are completely out of whack with 925/735. The temp version of 735, while limited to sorcerers, doesn't require any components at all and even the permanent version only requires that the sorcerer hunt (an activity they'd do anyway) and only requires one pour of a potion if ensorcelling an enhansive or sanctified item. 925 requires potions that are freely available unless the item to be enchanted is flaring or sanctified. 620, on the other hand, requires multiple potions to be made one at a time with ingredients that must be foraged from specific areas (if you want fire resistance in RR, you need to travel to Teras to get the plant, for example) regardless of the item's properties. Again, this is comparing a temporary enhancement to permanent ones, if anything it should be easier to put on, not more difficult.
-925/735 are perm enhancements that can be placed on even most high end gear and both benefit almost every hunting situation, 620 is a temp enhancement that is severely limited both by ASG and item properties and it's benefit is situational. I get that wizards/sorcerers are pures while rangers are semis, but it should at least go in Catagory C of item properties for the ASGs it's eligible for.
-In addition to the component requirements, it requires multiple pours/casts with decent RTs for each to put it on the armor and yields no EXP. 735, on the other hand, only needs to be CHANNELed at the item with a 3 sec RT and grants EXP.
-As a temp enhancement, there should be a way to remove it from the armor. If someone moves from Icemule to Teras (for example), they're going to want to switch their resistance type. It would be nice if there was a way to do this other then wearing it while being subjected to the relevant elemental damage. Possibly allowing 119 to strip it when cast directly at the armor or via a potion one can purchase from the ranger guild.
-625 should remain a temp enhancement. Most players prefer keeping and improving their existing armor rather then being forced to switch it out as they level, making it perm would require them to switch out their armor as they move to new hunting grounds. Changes should be made to reflect that it's temp rather then making it perm to justify the current process. That most rangers don't even bother putting a level 20 temp enhancement on their own armor shows that the cost (in terms of time and effort) to put it on out-weighs the benefit it gives.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
OM1E5GA
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 10:23 AM CDT
<While SMC and Blessings only improve the spell and aren't requirements, they're both skills only dedicated weed mages are going to be heavily trained in and most other rangers will have to sacrifice in other areas to get.>
My soul for an edit function on these forums.... I meant to have "more of" added onto the end of this.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
My soul for an edit function on these forums.... I meant to have "more of" added onto the end of this.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
KRAKII
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 10:59 AM CDT
"the amount of blank embeddables dropping in the treasure system has reduced (if not eliminated) the need to ask a ranger for a rod/wand or wearable. I never see "looking for a ranger to create some embeddables!" out there." -- Erek
I disagree: by preference I but 92-mana rods from somebody's shop, rather than use "an average amount of mana" in a dropped wand (or rod or scepter or whatever).
That said, I do wait until I can find them in a PlayerShop where someone stashes a week's worth of work, rather than hunting down a person to do them right that moment.
I disagree: by preference I but 92-mana rods from somebody's shop, rather than use "an average amount of mana" in a dropped wand (or rod or scepter or whatever).
That said, I do wait until I can find them in a PlayerShop where someone stashes a week's worth of work, rather than hunting down a person to do them right that moment.
DOUG
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 11:35 AM CDT
>>by preference I but 92-mana rods from somebody's shop
Agreed, I buy those, too. Were I to guess, I'd say most capable of casting 420 do that as well. Much better!
As to the resistance side of the discussion - I'm on the fence. Good points, but isn't the spell design crafted to work on 'natural', rather than 'forged' items? Maybe the spell, as is, is tuned to non-natural, but the natural side could be tuned to be much easier than it presently is, especially self-cast (ala ensorcell)?
Doug
Agreed, I buy those, too. Were I to guess, I'd say most capable of casting 420 do that as well. Much better!
As to the resistance side of the discussion - I'm on the fence. Good points, but isn't the spell design crafted to work on 'natural', rather than 'forged' items? Maybe the spell, as is, is tuned to non-natural, but the natural side could be tuned to be much easier than it presently is, especially self-cast (ala ensorcell)?
Doug
EREK
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 02:33 PM CDT
I dunno Doug, seems like I could rationalize it either way. A "natural" (leather or cloth) item is still worked, i.e. cut, punched, cured, whatever. A "forged" item at its base is still a natural substance (i.e. a metal or similar), unless that substance has properties forbidding magical enhancement.
LEAFIARA
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 02:46 PM CDT
I've asked at least three different ranger friends to make imbeddables for me at several points in the past year, either on the spot or with a few days' notice. I find 614 to be an incredibly cool spell, actually!
As for 620... I don't have any suggestions other than the obvious one that the incompatibility with metal armor should be reconsidered, since that makes it very, very niche.
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
As for 620... I don't have any suggestions other than the obvious one that the incompatibility with metal armor should be reconsidered, since that makes it very, very niche.
https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara
DOUG
Re: I never use 620
07/09/2018 03:27 PM CDT
>>I could rationalize it either way
Yep, right there with you, Erek. Part of the reason why I suggested it be easier for hides (what can be done right now) and perhaps have a difficulty mod for metal. All of this, of course, only applies to armors a ranger would work for others.
Now, casting on oneself? Borrowing a bit from those heathen sorcerers and wiley wizards, I think I'd favor 620 to simply be self-cast switchable resists (ala mage armor), and provide the immediate benefit of the ranger's training without all of the preparation work (like - kinda - ensorcell).
But then, BriarFox would rule. So maybe we can't have that. . .
Doug
Yep, right there with you, Erek. Part of the reason why I suggested it be easier for hides (what can be done right now) and perhaps have a difficulty mod for metal. All of this, of course, only applies to armors a ranger would work for others.
Now, casting on oneself? Borrowing a bit from those heathen sorcerers and wiley wizards, I think I'd favor 620 to simply be self-cast switchable resists (ala mage armor), and provide the immediate benefit of the ranger's training without all of the preparation work (like - kinda - ensorcell).
But then, BriarFox would rule. So maybe we can't have that. . .
Doug
BRIARFOX
Re: I never use 620
07/10/2018 06:39 AM CDT
I don't use 620 much, but if properly trained and enhanced, you can add 95% elemental resistance to leather armor, and that's just spectacular. I would like a few changes, though:
1) I'd love to be able to get multiple potions from a single herbalist. Why have to run to six different towns?
2) Lightning resistance should be an option (let us use "storm griffin moss" foraged from the Keen or something)
3) I would like to be able to pour a potion onto metal armor for a temporary effect, say 10 hits.
FYI, we've always been able to remove a resistance. Just ask the herbalist about REMOVE. It's 5k. He'll give you a potion to pour on the resistant armor.
~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox
You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
1) I'd love to be able to get multiple potions from a single herbalist. Why have to run to six different towns?
2) Lightning resistance should be an option (let us use "storm griffin moss" foraged from the Keen or something)
3) I would like to be able to pour a potion onto metal armor for a temporary effect, say 10 hits.
FYI, we've always been able to remove a resistance. Just ask the herbalist about REMOVE. It's 5k. He'll give you a potion to pour on the resistant armor.
~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox
You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
LAWRONIUS
Re: I never use 620
07/10/2018 10:20 AM CDT
Please let us use 620 on scripted armor. Pretty please.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: I never use 620
07/10/2018 07:06 PM CDT
>> Please let us use 620 on scripted armor. Pretty please.
It does work on at least some scripted armor. I would recommend being more specific on which script(s) you are looking for it to work with.
-- Robert
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
It does work on at least some scripted armor. I would recommend being more specific on which script(s) you are looking for it to work with.
-- Robert
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
LAWRONIUS
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 12:14 AM CDT
Does it? On the wiki it states 620 cannot be used with any scripted armor. Which ones is it compatible with?
Specifically, in my case for my request, I'd love it to work with Forest Armor. Which seems like perfect thematic armor for a ranger to have.
Specifically, in my case for my request, I'd love it to work with Forest Armor. Which seems like perfect thematic armor for a ranger to have.
OM1E5GA
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 11:18 AM CDT
<FYI, we've always been able to remove a resistance. Just ask the herbalist about REMOVE. It's 5k. He'll give you a potion to pour on the resistant armor.>
Hhhmmm.... I didn't see this when looking at the wiki article. I'll have to go look again and add this info if it's not there.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Hhhmmm.... I didn't see this when looking at the wiki article. I'll have to go look again and add this info if it's not there.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
GS4-ESTILD
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 04:40 PM CDT
I just finished coding an update to make Resist Nature (620) work on heavier armors. It's going to require a new potion, which the herbalist will craft from a single new, rare foragable that can be randomly found (while foraging for any other item). The resistance applied to heavier armors will also only be half as effective. The changes won't be live until after they're reviewed (which can take a few weeks).
GameMaster Estild
GameMaster Estild
DMWCINCY
GS4-ESTILD
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 04:51 PM CDT
| DMWCINCY |
| What about scripted armors? |
Scripts are blocked by default, but the script creator can optionally flag it so the spell can work on such items. Feel free to BUGITEM such armors to request they be reviewed by the script owner.
GameMaster Estild
DMWCINCY
DOUG
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 06:28 PM CDT
Well, damn. Nothing to be on the fence about, now.
Thanks, Estild!
Doug
Thanks, Estild!
Doug
LAWRONIUS
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 06:41 PM CDT
Wow!!! This is amazing!! Thank you so much Estild!!!!!
BRIARFOX
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 07:26 PM CDT
This is a fantastic and unexpected change. Thank you, Estild!
~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox
You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that dartsThis right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox
You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that dartsThis right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
HATESHI
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 09:43 PM CDT
Really awesome updates. Thank you!
- Overlord EK
>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.
- Overlord EK
>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.
KITHUS
Re: I never use 620
07/11/2018 09:48 PM CDT
Awesome update. now how about changing it so we can use it on armor with padding above very heavy?
| Keith/Brinret/Eronderl |
| Keith is correct |
| -Wyrom, APM |
| Keith is correct. |
| -GameMaster Estild |
CRESPO8
Re: I never use 620
07/20/2018 01:15 PM CDT
Boo, the idea that it only worked on lighter armor was actually interesting. I just rather have had it actually be more useful than let it work on heavier armor. Thanks for putting in the work to make changes, which is awesome, i just would rather have seen it changed in a different way. I want to see lighter armor actually have some sort of advantage over just everyone getting into chain/plate (besides actually being able to cast spells in)
Daemon Ranger
Daemon Ranger
GILCHRISTR
Re: I never use 620
07/20/2018 02:25 PM CDT
just to be clear, it now works on metal armor accessories (like vultite leg greaves)?
BRIARFOX
Re: I never use 620
07/20/2018 03:45 PM CDT
It will have half the effectiveness on metal armor and require a rare potion ingredient. These changes aren’t live yet.
Three questions about 620, Estild et al: 1) When does the 5 cast/wk limit reset? A week after the first cast or at a specific time each week (like Sun midnight)? 2) When does the strength of the resistance get calculated, at initial cast or sealing cast (this is good to know for using enhancives)? 3) How long does an initial cast give you before it, presumably, fades if you don’t pour the potions and seal it?
~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox
You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
Three questions about 620, Estild et al: 1) When does the 5 cast/wk limit reset? A week after the first cast or at a specific time each week (like Sun midnight)? 2) When does the strength of the resistance get calculated, at initial cast or sealing cast (this is good to know for using enhancives)? 3) How long does an initial cast give you before it, presumably, fades if you don’t pour the potions and seal it?
~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox
You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
