How much of a bonus does Self control give to disarming traps? Is it roughly equivalent to 1 rank of the disarming traps skill? 10? 100? Does the bonus increase with training in ranger spells past level? Can we pretty please have Self Control apply a bonus to picking too?!
And on a somewhat related note, my recollection of the interaction between imbued items and 403/404 was that you got the full bonus by default, but I read this on the spell docs:
"Rangers may have their imbued items imbedded with Picking Enhancement to receive a bonus. This bonus is available to the Ranger who imbued the item only and has the potential to be as powerful as the self-cast bonus, with the appropriate amount of Magic Item Use training."
Didn't realize the bonus would scale based on MIU? I'm assuming/hoping my 30 ranks of MIU is enough to get the full bonus...
Also, is there any way to measure a lock (even very roughly), beyond becoming a rogue or a bard?
JASON006
GILBERTJ26
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
02/25/2013 04:16 PM CST
I think there also is a disarm bonus from Mobiles or a combination of them, but I have never seen a formula for either. It may take a picking ranger that has actually noted the changes while picking, not too common.
Hmm I did not see anything in the Mobiles description about a bonus, just in Self Control. I could have sworn the doc on mobiles used to say it did. I have had more then one rogues ask me for the spell to aid with a trap. I have 0 trains in disarm but the full set of ranger spells, next time I get a little box that has a trap that I know I can survive Ill try an disarm it to see if no one provides a better answer before then.
"Rangers may have their imbued items imbedded with Picking Enhancement to receive a bonus. This bonus is available to the Ranger who imbued the item only and has the potential to be as powerful as the self-cast bonus, with the appropriate amount of Magic Item Use training."
I think that just means you have to have enough MIU to use the wand and cast the spell, not that it determines the bonus or what goes in it. That would be based on the one putting the spell into it.
However the amount of MANA the wand or item holds is based on your skills, and my experience that the base.. is not really the base. You can make a wand that is below the base mana. I have made many items that by the charts should hold 40 mana, but only hold 35, 36. By the charts I should be making things with extra mana. I do not think I have ever made a rod with extra mana. That is something I'd like to see as a small change. We should able to assess the imbue items we make and get a more accurate reading then what is current.
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
02/26/2013 12:33 AM CST
According to Porcell's old lock.cmd script, a ranger (me) with zero skills can pick and disarm like this:
Lock numbers with lore assume self-cast,
**LockPick Mod : Base: Lore
**Copper 1.00 : 30 : 95
**Brass 1.00 : 30 : 95
**Steel 1.10 : 33 : 104
**Ivory 1.20 : 36 : 114
**Gold 1.20 : 36 : 114
**Silver 1.30 : 39 : 123
**Mithril 1.45 : 43 : 137
**Ora 1.55 : 46 : 147
**Glaes 1.60 : 48 : 152
**Laje 1.75 : 52 : 166
**Vultite 1.80 : 54 : 171
**Rolaren 1.90 : 57 : 180
**Veniom 2.20 : 66 : 209
**Invar 2.25 : 67 : 213
**Alum 2.30 : 69 : 218
**Golvern 2.30 : 69 : 218
**Kelyn 2.40 : 72 : 228
**Vaalin 2.50 : 75 : 237
**
** Max Trap: 30
** Max Trap With Lore: 107 [self cast]
** Max Trap With Lore: 68 [not self-cast]
I'm not as bad as I thought! I'll save a few boxes with about a -50 trap and see if I can get it without lore.
~Brian, Sepher's player
Lock numbers with lore assume self-cast,
**LockPick Mod : Base: Lore
**Copper 1.00 : 30 : 95
**Brass 1.00 : 30 : 95
**Steel 1.10 : 33 : 104
**Ivory 1.20 : 36 : 114
**Gold 1.20 : 36 : 114
**Silver 1.30 : 39 : 123
**Mithril 1.45 : 43 : 137
**Ora 1.55 : 46 : 147
**Glaes 1.60 : 48 : 152
**Laje 1.75 : 52 : 166
**Vultite 1.80 : 54 : 171
**Rolaren 1.90 : 57 : 180
**Veniom 2.20 : 66 : 209
**Invar 2.25 : 67 : 213
**Alum 2.30 : 69 : 218
**Golvern 2.30 : 69 : 218
**Kelyn 2.40 : 72 : 228
**Vaalin 2.50 : 75 : 237
**
** Max Trap: 30
** Max Trap With Lore: 107 [self cast]
** Max Trap With Lore: 68 [not self-cast]
I'm not as bad as I thought! I'll save a few boxes with about a -50 trap and see if I can get it without lore.
~Brian, Sepher's player
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
02/26/2013 12:36 AM CST
Of course not every one will pick/disarm with those numbers. They're based purely on my stat bonuses.
OM1E5GA
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
02/26/2013 01:09 AM CST
<According to Porcell's old lock.cmd script, a ranger (me) with zero skills can pick and disarm like this:>
I'm not familiar with this script, but it looks like it's not taking into account that you need ranks in Picking Locks to get the full bonus of any pick better then a copper pick. (1 rank for steel up to 50 ranks for vaalin). I'm not sure exactly how it scales based on how many ranks you have verse how many are required (at least not beyond getting the full benefit of the various picks as you reach the number of ranks required), but I'd assume that with zero ranks every pick would act like a copper lockpick.
<I'll save a few boxes with about a -50 trap and see if I can get it without lore.>
This might take a while, it seems like I rarely see any traps below -75 even when picking kobold boxes.... but then, that might just be because of the town most of the boxes I pick are from.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
I'm not familiar with this script, but it looks like it's not taking into account that you need ranks in Picking Locks to get the full bonus of any pick better then a copper pick. (1 rank for steel up to 50 ranks for vaalin). I'm not sure exactly how it scales based on how many ranks you have verse how many are required (at least not beyond getting the full benefit of the various picks as you reach the number of ranks required), but I'd assume that with zero ranks every pick would act like a copper lockpick.
<I'll save a few boxes with about a -50 trap and see if I can get it without lore.>
This might take a while, it seems like I rarely see any traps below -75 even when picking kobold boxes.... but then, that might just be because of the town most of the boxes I pick are from.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
RATHBONER
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
02/26/2013 01:19 AM CST
Apart from "30" you won't pick/disarm with those numbers either. That script assumes you are reasonably well trained. There are penalties for not being properly trained for the pick, and lore bonus is capped by skill.
I don't know if anyone has ever worked out the bonus for self control, if you are trying to research it yourself make sure you control the other factors involved, lighting in particular. http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Locksmithing_saved_post lists them all.
I don't know if anyone has ever worked out the bonus for self control, if you are trying to research it yourself make sure you control the other factors involved, lighting in particular. http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Locksmithing_saved_post lists them all.
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
02/26/2013 05:51 AM CST
No, the script doesn't take into account not being properly trained for picking locks (nor did I know that to be a factor, honestly), but I doubt (I'm guessing) Porcell's player thought it particularly necessary. Regarding disarming, I'll try to do some testing after some actual research into the subject. Fortunately, the place my rogue hunts typically has boxes with crappy traps, so it shouldn't be too, too bad.
~Brian, Sepher's player
~Brian, Sepher's player
JASON006
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
03/06/2013 04:11 AM CST
>>No, the script doesn't take into account not being properly trained for picking locks (nor did I know that to be a factor, honestly), but I doubt (I'm guessing) Porcell's player thought it particularly necessary. Regarding disarming, I'll try to do some testing after some actual research into the subject. Fortunately, the place my rogue hunts typically has boxes with crappy traps, so it shouldn't be too, too bad.
Let me know if you need a guinea pig. At this point I wouldn't really know where to start testing it. My ranger is capped with 202 ranks of disarming. Best trap so far is a -452 scales. He's also killed himself on a -470ish scarab. :)
Let me know if you need a guinea pig. At this point I wouldn't really know where to start testing it. My ranger is capped with 202 ranks of disarming. Best trap so far is a -452 scales. He's also killed himself on a -470ish scarab. :)
JASON006
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
10/18/2014 04:51 AM CDT
Has anyone been able to confirm that the bonus to disarming from 613 is working? With 162 ranger ranks I'm not entirely sure if my ranger's disarming is anything beyond what disarm skill, dex bonus, and traplore should be giving him. Maybe I'll start dispelling 613 to see if I notice a difference.
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
10/18/2014 08:31 AM CDT
>Has anyone been able to confirm that the bonus to disarming from 613 is working? With 162 ranger ranks I'm not entirely sure if my ranger's disarming is anything beyond what disarm skill, dex bonus, and traplore should be giving him. Maybe I'll start dispelling 613 to see if I notice a difference.
I've had the same experience, though I never did much testing. If the bonus is working properly, it's a pretty small one.
~Brian, Sepher's player
I've had the same experience, though I never did much testing. If the bonus is working properly, it's a pretty small one.
~Brian, Sepher's player
RATHBONER
Re: Self control, lores, etc.
10/18/2014 09:49 AM CDT
>I've had the same experience, though I never did much testing. If the bonus is working properly, it's a pretty small one.
I'd expect it to be in the region of 20-30 but thats based on what I know of the other factors and http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Locksmithing_(saved_post) rather than any testing.
I'd expect it to be in the region of 20-30 but thats based on what I know of the other factors and http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Locksmithing_(saved_post) rather than any testing.
