I posted something similar in the paladin folder about this, so ignore if you've read already.
I am currently a paladin going the classic OHE/shield route. My plan was to stay there for a bit while I level (only 16 right now) and when the fixskills come, save that for going back to two-handers once I have a bit of training under my belt and can take hits a good deal better. As is, I am a giantman that can swing the 8 second weapons in 6 seconds (I have a two-second reduction), I won't be down to 5 seconds (3 second reduction) until somewhere in the 70's I think it was. This is all based off my natural stats, no AdG badge enhansive.
So, after reading about the craptastic reality of bullrush, and in comparison how wonderful charge is supposed to be (and shield bash has been) I'm starting to rethink that maybe pole-arms are the way to go. However, my dilema comes in that all the polearms jump from 7 sec to 9 sec. The 8 second category is completley skipped. What this results in (for me) is having two weapons that I would probably find myself far to slow with (Lance + awl-pike) and then a series of weapons that hit a little soft for my taste, but more quickly, and the only one I can see my Paladin useing stylistically is even lower on the chart of speed - the naginata. EVENTUALLY I plan on getting MoC ranks for focused strikes, but that will probably be a good deal further down the line than my switch to poles/THW. If this is the case, is the time saved from mstrike with a naginata a commiserate trade-off for the power behind the 9 second beasts that polearms have, and a fair trade-in with charge for the power-loss from the 8 second THWs I would be leaving behind.
I appreciate any advice, I hope I was clear in what I was trying to explain.
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
GHOSTRAVER
AJWITTWER
Re: Soooo....maybe?
04/07/2008 01:22 PM CDT
I don't know what race you are, but it should be noted that your RT will likely not actually be 9 seconds. See http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/RT for more information regarding your actual swing time.
POZeign
POZeign
GRANTA
Re: Soooo....maybe?
04/07/2008 01:27 PM CDT
Paladins have a nice bonus in Arm of the Arkati. This will make a faster, weaker weapon hit harder. I would just hop over to the test server and give polearms are a try. With Arm of the Arkati running, you should have no trouble killing stuff.
I would suggest either a Hammer of Kai or the Naginata as a choice for weapon, as those two puncture which is required for Charge.
You kick Jenovadeath!
>
Jenovadeath seems a bit less imposing.
I would suggest either a Hammer of Kai or the Naginata as a choice for weapon, as those two puncture which is required for Charge.
You kick Jenovadeath!
>
Jenovadeath seems a bit less imposing.
GHOSTRAVER
Re: Soooo....maybe?
04/07/2008 01:47 PM CDT
>I don't know what race you are... -POZeign
>As is, I am a giantman that can swing the 8 second weapons in 6 seconds -Me
I'll be swinging a lance in 7 seconds, still a second longer than I feel comfortable with, and that won't go down to 6 until sometime in my 70's
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
>As is, I am a giantman that can swing the 8 second weapons in 6 seconds -Me
I'll be swinging a lance in 7 seconds, still a second longer than I feel comfortable with, and that won't go down to 6 until sometime in my 70's
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
GHOSTRAVER
Re: Soooo....maybe?
04/07/2008 01:48 PM CDT
>...as those two puncture which is required for Charge.
Did not know that, I'll play with it some on test.
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
Did not know that, I'll play with it some on test.
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
GHOSTRAVER
Re: Soooo....maybe?
04/07/2008 07:19 PM CDT
So.... yeah, got to play with a naginata and charge today. It was a beautiful thing. A stun and a knockdown on almost every maneuver. Down side though, was the ordinary attacks weren't that spectacular. Better than my waraxe it seemed but not near as good as my greatsword.
Also on the negative side, the extra 3 PTP per level really adds up. Keeps me from being able to get a lot of other stuff earlier on, and I won't be even close to 2x PT by cap. Eh, still have 4 days to decide.
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
Also on the negative side, the extra 3 PTP per level really adds up. Keeps me from being able to get a lot of other stuff earlier on, and I won't be even close to 2x PT by cap. Eh, still have 4 days to decide.
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
JAIMALTZ
Re: Soooo....maybe?
04/07/2008 09:13 PM CDT
As the paladin that started a recent thread in the paladin folders about two handed vs polearm weapons, I'd have to recommend two handed weapons for you.
As a human paladin, it was a much tougher call for me (I picked polearms, waiting for my yearly fixskill) because bullrush is affected by size, and you being a giant you'll have better success. I also have 3 seconds off of my swing, and I'll have 4 seconds off my swing at level 72 with some help from an AG badge.
Bull rush is 15 stamina, charge is 20, and feint is 5. You can do a bull rush (5 seconds, 15 stamina) + a feint (3 seconds, 5 stamina) in almost the same time & stamina as one charge (7 seconds, 20 stamina) and will be almost as good. It won't do the stuns and wounds, but it'll give about the same RT and will drop the stance further than a single charge will.
Then, I'd pick up a maul and use that for a while so you'd have a 5 second swing, while still hitting much harder than a 7 second polearm. The extra 3/0 points saved can be dumped into ambush to give you the option to aim for heads with them at later levels.
Sorvael, player of
As a human paladin, it was a much tougher call for me (I picked polearms, waiting for my yearly fixskill) because bullrush is affected by size, and you being a giant you'll have better success. I also have 3 seconds off of my swing, and I'll have 4 seconds off my swing at level 72 with some help from an AG badge.
Bull rush is 15 stamina, charge is 20, and feint is 5. You can do a bull rush (5 seconds, 15 stamina) + a feint (3 seconds, 5 stamina) in almost the same time & stamina as one charge (7 seconds, 20 stamina) and will be almost as good. It won't do the stuns and wounds, but it'll give about the same RT and will drop the stance further than a single charge will.
Then, I'd pick up a maul and use that for a while so you'd have a 5 second swing, while still hitting much harder than a 7 second polearm. The extra 3/0 points saved can be dumped into ambush to give you the option to aim for heads with them at later levels.
Sorvael, player of
GHOSTRAVER
Re: Soooo....maybe?
04/08/2008 07:11 AM CDT
Appreciate it. That's sort of where I've been leaning since last night, especially seeing how the naginata felt like a wet noodle compared to my greatsword. I still like the concept of the naginata on my paladin better, but no so much that I'm willing to hinder myself in combat. I'll definetley look into mastering feint once bullrush is done. I just wish bullrush was close to as good as shield bash/charge and not require me to learn another CM just to be on par. Oh well, thanks again all for the help.
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
Andrew
"I'm no physician, but there appears to be a dagger through my chest."-Richard, LFG
JAIMALTZ
Re: Soooo....maybe?
04/08/2008 08:55 AM CDT
To put it in perspective, if you went polearms, you'd probably want 2 ranks of precision anyway to deal with the puncture immune creatures, and always hit with crush. Mauls crush 100% of the time.
That costs 6 CML points for rank 1, and 9 ranks for rank 2, for a total of 15 CML points on top of your charge ranks.
It'll cost you 3 + 6 + 9 = 18 to get 3 ranks of feint, or 30 for if you go for rank 4. It isn't too big of a difference, and since you're saving 3/0 every training, you'll make up the difference fairly quickly.
Also from my testing, I think it'd be best to do the feint first, and then the bullrush. On low successes bullrush doesn't produce much RT, and the critter might stand up before you get a chance to feint or wack it. If you do the feint first, you stack the RT and low successes on bullrush won't matter as much because you'll be able to get a swing in before they stand up.
That costs 6 CML points for rank 1, and 9 ranks for rank 2, for a total of 15 CML points on top of your charge ranks.
It'll cost you 3 + 6 + 9 = 18 to get 3 ranks of feint, or 30 for if you go for rank 4. It isn't too big of a difference, and since you're saving 3/0 every training, you'll make up the difference fairly quickly.
Also from my testing, I think it'd be best to do the feint first, and then the bullrush. On low successes bullrush doesn't produce much RT, and the critter might stand up before you get a chance to feint or wack it. If you do the feint first, you stack the RT and low successes on bullrush won't matter as much because you'll be able to get a swing in before they stand up.
GSTEPHENSON
