>I am in the extreme and obvious minority in this but personally I think they should either remove the lance from the game, shift it somewhat, or drop the awl-pike base RT to 8.

I think they should remove the lance from the game, and move the DF and AvDs and such to the awl-pike. Why the heck does a weapon ment to be used from the back of a mount during a charge do so much damage when swung by a guy on foot?

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Aduro Terrarun - Mage Priest of Cingh
Volaticus Tamamushi - Winged Warrior of Honor
Asmodea Drey'Haus - Annoying Pain in the Arse

From what I had heard we did not have the medieval Knight's lance, but rather the footman's lance. I think that if you check the history of Lancer's you will find that the original Lance was similar to the kind of thing carried by hoplites.

Ken

>Even worse than throwing/hurling weapons in some ways.

Oh I would be willing to take that argument up with you;)

At least you have some semblence of DS after you attack...

Seablade and Seablaede
The Ashrim

Lance

The term "lance" has become a catchall for a variety of different pole weapons based on the "spear". While most could still be classified as spears, lances tend to be larger; usually both longer and heavier lances did not have spear tips that broke off and were adapted for mounted combat. The lance is perhaps most known as one of the foremost weapons used by European knights, but the use of lances were spread throughout the old world wherever mounts were available. Generally a spear which is not thrown is called a lance. Because of the extreme stopping power of a lance it quickly became a popular weapon of footmen in the "footman's lance". These eventually lead to the rise of some of the longest types of spears ever, the "pike" and "awl pike". During the 15th through 17th centuries, these weapons of war were so effective that lancers and pikemen not only became a staple of every army, they also became highly sought after mercenaries. In Europe, a "jousting lance" was a variation of the knights lance which was modified from its original war design. In jousting lances, the tips would at times be blunt and the center of the lance could be designed to be hollow, in order for it to break on impact. They were often 4 meters long or more and had special hand guards build into the length of the lance. These are the versions that can most often be seen at medieval reenactment festivals. In war, lances were much more like ordinary spears, long and balanced for one handed use. A lance is also the name given by some anthropologists to the light flexible spears thrown by spear throwers. Spears that are often considered lances include: "Aunurgith" "Awl pike" "Barchi" "Boar spear" "Bohemian ear spoon" *'''Chimbane''' *'''Contus''' *'''Dung''' *'''Falarica''' *'''Footman's lance''' *'''Hasta''' *'''Jousting lance''' *'''Kadji''' *'''Magari yari''' *'''Mon-Gil Mon-Gil''' *'''Ox tongue''' *'''Plancon a picot''' *'''Rummh''' *'''Sangu''' *'''Sarissa''' *'''Spontoon''' *'''Sudis''' *'''Su yari''' *'''Taru''' *'''To-ono''' *'''Yari''' For all others please see '''spear etc.

* On a side note, the picture of the lance that Simu provides on it's website is clearly of a medieval knight's jousting lance.This is not a footman's lance, which is just a long spear head on a 8 foot long pole shaft. A lancer on horseback variation was unbeatable back in the middle ages, it was effectively the F-22 Raptor of the day. The lance ends would often be blunt (not even sharp), but the sheer impact of a ton of flesh and steel traveling at high speeds would completely obliderate any opposing force. And speaking in terms of how it actually was used, the lance was never meant to be a single dueling weapon (as we have it in GS). In fact a row of men with lances was meant to direct battlefield "traffic" in order to secure the enemy in the most vulnerable position.

Anyhow, with historical aspects aside (since this is a game), in game mechanics terms the AwlPike should definetly be removed or overhauled. Apart from an RP aspect, it serves no other purpose. It's similar to saying why pickup up a 1890 Springfield Rifle when you can pick up a M220 SAW for the same costs? Doesn't make much sense.

I'm talking about the mechanics of the weapon type themselves, not the mechanics of hurling boys. Damn uppity newbies.

Jim


"Galileos head was on the block
The crime was looking up for truth
And as the bombshells of my daily fears explode
I try to trace them to my youth"

Ok someone correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the design a footman's lance and pike primarily to be footed and leaned forward against an oncoming mounted charge in order to kill the horses, thus leaving the armored knights on the ground where thy were essentially useless?

Seablade and Seablaede
The Ashrim

Hokay.

There are plenty of weapon bases that make less sense to have than an awl-pike. Scimitars, ball and chains, almost all of the base 1 brawlers, for instance.

It's a fantasy game. Using a jousting lance on foot makes a heck of a lot more sense than a missing leg being a nonfatal wound or spatial teleportation.

-Anathemus' player

<<jousting lance on foot>>

This is just too extreme, even for a fantasy game. Jousting lances gain their power from the fact their being propelled on horseback.

<<Scimitars, ball and chains, almost all of the base 1 brawlers, for instance>>

Scimitars should be removed or fixed. Ball and Chains should do their intended purpose (bypass shield DS), brawlers don't know about.

>>This is just too extreme, even for a fantasy game. Jousting lances gain their power from the fact their being propelled on horseback.

Jousting lance is a not a lance. It is a specially mofied form of a lance. And a lance is just a specially modified spear. A jousting lance tended to be created with a hollow cavity so it would shatter, making it safer.

The lance weapon is not the typical jousting lance. And the lance weapon does crush and puncture, something that would be capable from on foot.


-player of hakwea

"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him" ~Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
The demonologists Handbook: http://www.geocities.com/gsdemonologist/

>It is not an excuse for the game being internally inconsistent or making no sense.

What's internally inconsistent about an Earthling's cavalry weapon being used on foot by an Elanthian?

>There has to be a frame of reference to the real world otherwise everything becomes nonsense.

I disagree both with your assertion and that it applies to this situation; by which I mean I don't think that it's wholly ridiculous for our Elanthian characters (who physically dominate Earthlings in every category) to be able to lance around on foot. (Tangentially, I disagree with your assertion in general because I've had dreams that were wholly devoid of "real" reality, but they seemed extremely consistent at the time, even [dare I say it!] realistic. The mental connection between consciousness and reality is something I'd really want to explore in greater detail if I could figure out how.)

Does your character breathe? Does your character require breath? Does your character require sleep? Food? Does your character have a pancreas? Does your character have a thyroid gland? Does your character make use of ATP? Does your character have a metabolism at all?

Elanthians aren't Earthlings. They share a number of characteristics (enough to make them palpable to us, the players), but that number is not "all". I would go so far as to say that number isn't even "most".

-Anathemus' player

So you're saying that if your character were to remain logged in for a significant period (let's say a week) without ingesting any sort of fuel, he would keel over and possibly die? Further, he would also inevitably conk out and fall asleep? Further, he would do all these things without a single command entered by the player?

-Anathemus' player

Ah, but in a work of fiction there are gaps in time (analogous to characters logging out). It is fair to say that characters do eat at times regardless of player input (i.e. while logged out), but I contend it is unreasonable to posit that characters require food.

-Anathemus' player