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LORDKRIP

Halberds 08/25/2015 06:46 AM CDT

So, I have this character that I want to use a polearm, and I don't want to use a lance. I'm leaning towards a scythe, so that means I'm using a modified halberd.

In my reasearch of the polearm weapon base, I discovered something that I really just couldn't figure out the reason for, and I was hoping someone could enlighten me.

What I discovered was that mechanically, other than the +20 AvD of the naginata, the halberd is identical. The only other place where they are different is that a halberd gets to be all kinds of other nouns, and a naginata is a naginata is a naginata.

Why is it like this? I can't really figure it out, and all I am seeing is that a player has to make a choice between +20 AvD and being stuck with the naginata noun, or having access to all the other halberd nouns but -20 AvD. Am I missing something here?

Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein

KRAKII

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/25/2015 08:48 AM CDT

"Back in the day..."

...the naginata was a backroom order item at Tyron's weapon shop/Tykel he is now.

It was a +20 halberd.

AND it would take Elemental Blade, turning it into a +40 weapon with flares.

.

Somewhere around Growing Pains/early 2000's, it got removed as a +20 halberd and made its own weapon base, with 20 AvD benefit compared to the halberd, but a +0 weapon.

So the effect when you EBlade it, remains exactly the same as what it used to be. It's just that you can do it at 10th level now, rather than having to be 20th.

LORDKRIP

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/25/2015 11:52 AM CDT

Thank you for filling in some history, Krakii. I don't believe it really answered any of my questions though.

I will say that in rereading my original post I realize I was being unfair in my previous assessment. It is not a choice between +20 AvD and -20 AvD. It is a choice between +20 AvD and +0 AvD.

That being said, my confusion remains. What is Gemstone gaining through the current implementation of halberds and naginatas as they are? Is there a purpose for this implementation beyond the strange organic growth of naginatas as their own weapon base detailed by Krakii's player?

Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein

RUFUSMORAY

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/25/2015 12:07 PM CDT

To be blunt. Nothing other than RP purposes. You are much better going with a naginata or a lance over a halbred mechanically. The only other reason to concern yourself is if you are worried that most GM services consider a naginata to be a +20 weapon base for adding flares etc.

However from a pure enchanting purpose the naginata is also better because a wizard can take that to 7x for an effective 9x in some people's opinion. Also if you can get flares added by a service then you have a much better weapon there as well. To be honest:

1) Naginata - Mechanically better, period.
2) Halbred - More RP options.

KRAKII

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/25/2015 12:29 PM CDT

Also, once upon a time, a Halberd was a 1Hand Pole Arm.

And yes, Two-Weapon Combat worked with both of your hands hold Halberds.

This... got changed.

LORDKRIP

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/25/2015 12:53 PM CDT

There is something both disappointing and unsettling about the stance of, "choose between more available nouns, or +20 AvD", so I'm sure that can't be the reason.

It's entirely asinine to have an absolutely identical weapon base in every way but this one mechanically superior way, but limit the noun usage to it. I have faith there's a better reason than this.

Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein

KRAKII

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/25/2015 01:32 PM CDT

Probably not, in all honesty.

The change was primarily made (going from a +20 halberd to a +0 weapon with 20 superior AvD) solely to not have to deprive people of their naginata [Nihongo plural same as singular], because that would be taking something away from people.

Even using other Japanese pole arm names doesn't really preserve the same flavor, because you're talking about a staff length of <pretty much this>, and a blade length of <pretty much this> with <about this> curvature, and so on. Calling it a yumi or yari would just be... different. Not right.

LORDKRIP

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/25/2015 05:21 PM CDT

I'm thinking you may be right.

RIP halberds and company, you've joined whip-blades in a very "special" class of weapons.

Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein

BRANDTJRT

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/25/2015 08:23 PM CDT

Naginatas should be separated better, ideally. Maybe buff them up some and make them 8 second base rt? Not much at that speed Polearm wise.

Though I have a cool halberd (it's a garden spade!) so making them super awesome instead is something that I am okay with.

LORDKRIP

Email Author

Re: Halberds 08/28/2015 10:21 AM CDT

I'm just going to use a naginata until they give me a reason to use a halberd instead, or make the choice more meaningful.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a numerical difference in the naginata vs halberd in the CMAN TRIP bonus, but I'm not in a position to test that just yet.

Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein

GemStone IV · Polearms Discussion