Claids got the weighting. Why don't we all get natural stuns, droppage/disarm, knock downs? Fat RT on this and giving it that would make it funner.
Mois
LIPPO-GRANDE
LIPPO-GRANDE
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/17/2012 12:37 PM CDT
PS Should be natural defenders because of the distance you keep foes at bay, say natural +10 or something but be maybe easier to knock down by about the same time or vulnerable to same effects you get when attacking with it?
Mois
GS4-AULIS
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/17/2012 01:26 PM CDT
Lances have the highest DF (Damage Factor) of any weapon in game, which is why they don't have weighting like claids.
~Aulis
Forums Manager
QC'er
~Aulis
Forums Manager
QC'er
GS4-KONACON
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/17/2012 02:57 PM CDT
Without going into too much depth here, Aulis hit the nail on the head. Seriously, the DF on lances is intense.
Aside from that, claidhs are a very iconic weapon in Gemstone, and tossing that bonus onto other weapons would remove a lot of that uniqueness that made and has kept claidhs so special over the years.
Gamemaster Konacon
Squares Team
Aside from that, claidhs are a very iconic weapon in Gemstone, and tossing that bonus onto other weapons would remove a lot of that uniqueness that made and has kept claidhs so special over the years.
Gamemaster Konacon
Squares Team
GRYPES
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/17/2012 11:27 PM CDT
PS Should be natural defenders because of the distance you keep foes at bay, say natural +10 or something but be maybe easier to knock down by about the same time or vulnerable to same effects you get when attacking with it?
Mois
They get a +15 natural DS boost. Or did several years ago. Haven't done the math and comparison to other two-handers lately to see if there's still a 15 boost over normal parry defense.
Dgry
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/18/2012 06:44 AM CDT
>They get a +15 natural DS boost. Or did several years ago. Haven't done the math and comparison to other two-handers lately to see if there's still a 15 boost over normal parry defense. - Dgry
Yes, it is +15 in stance OFF. The natural polearm (two-hand grip) DS bonus ranges from +15 in stance OFF to +30 in stance DEF.
Polearm DS bonus: 30 * (50% + stance/2)
.
Two-hand Grip Polearm DS Formula :
.
The stance modifiers are ((20% + stance/2) * 1.35) where stance is 0/20/40/60/80/100 from OFF to DEF respectively.
.
Mark
Yes, it is +15 in stance OFF. The natural polearm (two-hand grip) DS bonus ranges from +15 in stance OFF to +30 in stance DEF.
Polearm DS bonus: 30 * (50% + stance/2)
.
| Polearm DS Bonus By Stance |
| STANCE | 0FF | ADV | FOR | NEU | GUA | DEF |
| DS BONUS | 15 | 18 | 21 | 24 | 27 | 30 |
Two-hand Grip Polearm DS Formula :
.
| ((Weapon Ranks + STR/4 + DEX/4) * stance modifier)) + (weapon enchant bonus * stance modifier) + polearm DS bonus |
The stance modifiers are ((20% + stance/2) * 1.35) where stance is 0/20/40/60/80/100 from OFF to DEF respectively.
.
| Polearm Stance Modifiers |
| STANCE | OFF | ADV | FOR | NEU | GUA | DEF |
| MODIFIER | .27 | .41 | .54 | .68 | .81 | .94 |
Mark
RATHBONER
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/18/2012 08:41 AM CDT
Polearms are massively overpowered in GS, because if they had realistic mechanics no one would use them.
Polearms are formation weapons that are useless in single combat. Claidhs do have the excuse of being effective single combat weapons, but polearms really should be pathetic when used on their own, but with the capability of adding much greater side by side or FoF bonues than other weapons.
Polearms are formation weapons that are useless in single combat. Claidhs do have the excuse of being effective single combat weapons, but polearms really should be pathetic when used on their own, but with the capability of adding much greater side by side or FoF bonues than other weapons.
JOEKRYSTEL
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/18/2012 09:13 AM CDT
>Polearms are massively overpowered in GS, because if they had realistic mechanics no one would use them.
>Polearms are formation weapons that are useless in single combat. Claidhs do have the excuse of being effective single combat weapons, but polearms really should be pathetic when used on their own, but with the capability of adding much greater side by side or FoF bonues than other weapons.
Besides a few nouns (pikes, sarissas and similar 20+ foot weapons), that is totally erroneous. Even most of those terms were also used to indicate shorter individual weapons at some point. Making a blanket statement to include spears, tridents, pole-axes, bills and the like as formation only weapons borders on the absurd. You might as well say all shields are only useful shield walls. If we move to a more realistic interpretation of weapons though, I would surely love for my sarrissa to work with a shield as they actually did.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
>Polearms are formation weapons that are useless in single combat. Claidhs do have the excuse of being effective single combat weapons, but polearms really should be pathetic when used on their own, but with the capability of adding much greater side by side or FoF bonues than other weapons.
Besides a few nouns (pikes, sarissas and similar 20+ foot weapons), that is totally erroneous. Even most of those terms were also used to indicate shorter individual weapons at some point. Making a blanket statement to include spears, tridents, pole-axes, bills and the like as formation only weapons borders on the absurd. You might as well say all shields are only useful shield walls. If we move to a more realistic interpretation of weapons though, I would surely love for my sarrissa to work with a shield as they actually did.
AIM: GS4Menos
>Here lies the formless world we´re living in
>Gravity is finally giving in
>High altitudes and still upward we go
>I was never meant to lead but to follow
HEATHERHAZE
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/18/2012 11:06 AM CDT
>Besides a few nouns (pikes, sarissas and similar 20+ foot weapons), that is totally erroneous.
I think it's fairly apparent if we're referring to ridiculously overpowered weapons we're referring to those "few nouns"...especially lances.
Lances are the most ridiculous weapons in the game. If you argue that they should be powerful weapons, I'd agree...IF we were talking about mounted combat. But the type of lances used on foot are more akin to spears and javelins, and should by NO means be the juggernauts of destruction they are in GS4. Even the infantry variety of lance was not used in close melee. It was more of a one-off weapon that was abandoned in favor of a sword or mace once the enemy was within melee range. Seeing people run around "swinging" lances requires an immense suspension of disbelief. I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they made lances the best weapon in the game. Ridiculous.
~ HH
I think it's fairly apparent if we're referring to ridiculously overpowered weapons we're referring to those "few nouns"...especially lances.
Lances are the most ridiculous weapons in the game. If you argue that they should be powerful weapons, I'd agree...IF we were talking about mounted combat. But the type of lances used on foot are more akin to spears and javelins, and should by NO means be the juggernauts of destruction they are in GS4. Even the infantry variety of lance was not used in close melee. It was more of a one-off weapon that was abandoned in favor of a sword or mace once the enemy was within melee range. Seeing people run around "swinging" lances requires an immense suspension of disbelief. I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they made lances the best weapon in the game. Ridiculous.
~ HH
LIBERTUS
ROLFARD
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/18/2012 09:41 PM CDT
Can someone postulate on end roll death crits of claids vs lance with claidh weighting? For fun?
RATHBONER
Re: Lance Weighting and Alternatives
04/19/2012 01:10 PM CDT
A claidh would require the roll to be higher by about 5/4/6/19/50 against the different armor classes from cloth up to plate.
The biggest difference is that 40 points crit weighting isn't enough to turn the merest scratch into a death crit with a claidh vs. plate, but it is for a lance against everything, most of the rest is the higher AvD of the lance and the remainder is the higher DF of the lance.
The biggest difference is that 40 points crit weighting isn't enough to turn the merest scratch into a death crit with a claidh vs. plate, but it is for a lance against everything, most of the rest is the higher AvD of the lance and the remainder is the higher DF of the lance.
