Okay, thanks for your help. I probably won't pick up any ambush, and any free TPs will go to pushing my cman above 1x.

As far as cman points are concerned, which ones do you guys are most useful for a THW Paladin? I currently have 3 ranks of feint, 1 rank of surge, and 10 spare cman points that I haven't put into anything yet. I was thinking maybe get the 4th rank of feint, and then start bull rush but I have a couple questions: if I get sanctified arm greaves (for the purpose of getting plasma flares on my bull rush) and sanctified armor as well, does it double my chances of getting a flare? Can leg greaves flare on a bull rush?

Also, on a bounty in the spider temple the other day I got disarmed by an Arachne acolyte and that seems like something I'd be interested in defending against. Do other people have disarm? If so, are they using it offensively or mainly just to protect against being disarmed. How many ranks are enough to substantially reduce a like-level critter's chance of success (so they need to roll a 80 or better say)?

>>If I were you, I would start picking up Spec 1. Except for Feint, I use none of them offensively.

My training looked about like his until cunning defense came out and focus became passive. Bullrush is worthless - speaking as a giant and I'm pretty sure giants have the best chances of success with it.

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Combat Focus focus 2
Dirtkick dirtkick 1
Shield Bash sbash 1
Disarm Weapon disarm 2
Feint feint 5
Charge charge 1
Subdual Strike sstrike 1
Specialization I wspec1 5
Side by Side sidebyside 4
Surge of Strength surge 4
Cunning Defense cdefense 4

I use feint, surge, and wspec. Everything else listed is either passive or for added defense. I take more damage from rogue cmans that I can't train in than most of the ones available to us so I bumped up cdefense instead of getting higher ranks in scharge and charge.

Dgry

<<Bullrush is worthless

I have it only for defense. Mostly for while I'm hunting camps.

---

I didn't figure you were using it offensively. I was just reiterating the fact that it sucks.

I would kill for a reliable knockdown cman as a THW user. HINT HINT cman guru

Dgry

<< I would kill for a reliable knockdown cman as a THW user. HINT HINT cman guru

I know right. :(

What do you regard as a reliable knock down available to one-handers? By far the most best one I have found is ambush critter left leg, and that is available to THW as well.

---

Shield bash was by far the best cman I've used for proning things as a paladin. It doesn't give crazy RT on failures and even stanced the target and forced a bit of RT. When I used it I found it much more reliable than shield charge, so just maxed it out at 5 ranks and dropped scharge. In my opinion bullrush isn't anywhere close to being as reliable or effective as shield bash.

Dgry

> Shield bash was by far the best cman I've used for proning things as a paladin. It doesn't give crazy RT on failures and even stanced the target and forced a bit of RT. When I used it I found it much more reliable than shield charge, so just maxed it out at 5 ranks and dropped scharge. In my opinion bullrush isn't anywhere close to being as reliable or effective as shield bash.

I have it maxed out too, but for a lot of critters I find it is not worth using due to the penalties taken for them being large or quadrupeds. When I am not taking that penalty it is good.

I (almost) always feint first, so the RT and stancing are already there. Without that opening feint, shield bash would look better compared to legging the critter. Bandits is the one place I do find it superior. Feinting is a 1:1 tactic, for larger groups the immediate knockdown that sbash gives one of them becomes more valuable.

>Okay, useful info so far. I had envisioned using bull rush after setting them up with feint first. If I'm not mistaken it works better if they're alrady in offensive, and it stacks RT with feint? Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.

RT on critters does not stack, it refreshes. Feint gives up to 8s RT to a critter at endrolls of 150 and above. This gives you a window of 5s for a follow up manoever after deducting your 3s from feint. Feint gives you time to try a bullrush, but it will not add to the RT that bullrush inflicts.

A lot of CMans work better when the critter is in offensive. Typically you need a roll 25 higher to get the same result over when it is in defensive.

I would suggest just focusing on building up a large AS, as it's effective rate is much higher than relying on a Cman disabler.

On the magical front, while mana might be a limitation, Divine Strike is a great setup at that level.


-farmer

*

That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy.

-Strath

<<Speaking of which: does anyone have a crit type with judgement/divine strike that they feel is mechanically advantageous? I started with plasma and haven't converted yet.

If you're going to convert strictly for mechanical advantage, I would pick a deity with impact crits.

Okay thanks, that's exactly the type of information I was looking for.

Also, by impact crits you mean the crush table used my mauls and such?
Kai would be a good god RP-wise for me, and his messaging on Judgement is pretty cool I believe.

Should I be at all concerned that since I"ll likely to be wpsecing and bonding to a maul, I might be in trouble if I encounter anything with crush resistance (having my attack spells and weapon be purely crush based)? Or is that not a concern at all?

This should be complete with the exception of the rank 7 eye crit messaging and damage. Injury ranks are included (1,2,3) with the corresponding critical ranks.

There seems to have been a coding error with Rank3 neck damage (15). More than likely this value should have been 10, and the Rank 5 back crit damage (15)...but it is what it is.

Minor water (903) does impact crits so this is actually the base impact critical table. Many spells have impact criticals associated with them including boil earth, meteor swarm, dark catalyst, elem blast etc. Although the crit rank and messaging for these attacks will correspond to the table below, the damage will usually be greater for them.

Mark

IMPACT (aka minor water) CRITICAL TABLE:
.
.

ARMOR GROUP	CLOTH	LEATHER	SCALE	CHAIN	PLATE
MINOR WATER (903) DF	.455	.345	.283	.242	.173
AvD	30	30/29/28/27	29/27/25/23	31/27/23/19	25/19/13/7

.

LEGEND:

(A) - amputation
(F) - fatal (instant death crit)
(K) - knockdown
(S) - stun
(R1,2,3) Injury ranks


crit(IMPACT)HEAD:
Rank 0 head 0 Blow grazes cheek.
Rank 1 head 5 Brushing blow to temple. (R1)
Rank 2 head 10 Strike to head breaks cheekbone. (R2)(S)
Rank 3 head 15 Nice blow to head! The critter looks dazed! (R2)(S)
Rank 4 head 20 Good blow to head! (R3)(S)
Rank 5 head 25 Strong shot to head messes up brain fatally. (R3)(F)
Rank 6 head 30 Hard blow to temple scrambles brain! (R3)(F)
Rank 7 head 35 Massive blow to temple drops the critter in his tracks! (R3) (F)
Rank 8 head 45 Strike to temple cracks skull open! (R3)(F)
Rank 9 head 50 Blow to head removes skull! (R3)(F)

crit(IMPACT)NECK:
Rank 0 neck 0 Blow just brushes neck.
Rank 1 neck 2 Blow grazes neck lightly.
Rank 2 neck 5 Blow to neck tears tissue. (R2)(S)
Rank 3 neck 15 Nice blow to neck! (R2)(S)ok with damage and stun
Rank 4 neck 12 Good blow to neck! Something snaps! (R3)(S)
Rank 5 neck 15 Strong blow breaks neck! (R3)(F)
Rank 6 neck 20 Hard blow to neck loosens head on shoulders. Quite fatal! (R3)(F)
Rank 7 neck 25 Massive blow to neck snaps it! (R3)(F)
Rank 8 neck 30 Blow shatters bones in the critter's neck leaving its head hanging loosely! (R3)(F)
Rank 9 neck 40 Strike to the critter's throat removes it! (R3)(F)

crit(IMPACT)REYE:
Rank 0 r eye 0 Strike catches eyebrow narrowly missing eye!
Rank 1 r eye 1 Strike hits close to the right eye! (R1)
Rank 2 r eye 3 Blow connects right below right eye! (R1)
Rank 3 r eye 5 Glancing blow to right eye scratches cornea! (R2)(S)
Rank 4 r eye 10 Blow to the eye swells it shut! (R2)(S)
Rank 5 r eye 15 Blow to right eye destroys it! (R3)(S)
Rank 6 r eye 20 Hard strike to right eye pops it! (R3)(S)
Rank 7 r eye ?
Rank 8 r eye 40 Massive blow to right eye sending bone back into the brain! (R3)(F)
Rank 9 r eye 50 Hard strike removes the right eye and a goodly bit of skull! R3)(F)


crit(IMPACT)LEYE:
Rank 0 l eye 0 Strike catches eyebrow narrowly missing eye!
Rank 1 l eye 1 Strike hits close to the left eye! (R1)
Rank 2 l eye 3 Blow connects right below left eye! (R1)
Rank 3 l eye 5 Glancing blow to left eye scratches cornea! (R2)(S)
Rank 4 l eye 10 Blow to the eye swells it shut! (R2)(S)
Rank 5 l eye 15 Blow to left eye destroys it! (R3)(S)
Rank 6 l eye 20 Hard strike to left eye pops it! (R3)(S)
Rank 7 l eye ?
Rank 8 l eye 40 Massive blow to left eye sending bone back into the brain! (R3)(F)
Rank 9 l eye 50 Hard strike removes the left eye and a goodly bit of skull! (R3)(F)


crit(IMPACT)CHEST:
Rank 0 chest 0 Strike connects lightly with chest.
Rank 1 chest 5 Strike glances off the chest. (R1)
Rank 2 chest 3 Light strike to chest. (R1)??
Rank 3 chest 15 Nice blow to chest! (R1)
Rank 4 chest 20 Good blow to chest! (R2)(S)
Rank 5 chest 25 Strong blow to chest! (R2)(S)
Rank 6 chest 35 Hard blow to chest breaking ribs! Hard to breathe!(R3)(S)
Rank 7 chest 50 Massive blow to chest collapses sternum! (R3)(S)
Rank 8 chest 60 Blow to chest frees a rib to spear a lung and heart! (R3)(F)
Rank 9 chest 70 Strike to chest causes a large gaping hole! (R3)(F)

crit(IMPACT)ABDOMEN:
Rank 0 abdomen 0 Pathetic attack to the abdomen.
Rank 1 abdomen 5 Blow connects with abdomen. (R1)
Rank 2 abdomen 10 Light strike to abdomen. (R1)
Rank 3 abdomen 15 Nice blow to abdomen! (R2)(S)
Rank 4 abdomen 20 Good blow to the abdomen! (R2)(S)
Rank 5 abdomen 25 Strong blow to abdomen! (R2)(S)
Rank 6 abdomen 35 Hard blow to abdomen looks painful! (R3)(S)
Rank 7 abdomen 50 Massive blow to abdomen! (R3)(S)
Rank 8 abdomen 60 Strike to abdomen ruptures internal organs! (R3)F
Rank 9 abdomen 70 Blow to abdomen breaks the critter almost in two! (R3)F

crit(IMPACT)BACK:
Rank 0 back 0 Strike brushes back.
Rank 1 back 5 Blow to back connects lightly. (R1)
Rank 2 back 10 Light blow to back. (R1)
Rank 3 back 15 Nice blow to back! (R1)(S)
Rank 4 back 20 Good blow to back! (R2)(S)
Rank 5 back 15 Strong blow to back! (R2)(S)
Rank 6 back 35 Hard blow to the critter's back causes it to cry out in pain! (R3)(S)
Rank 7 back 50 Massive blow to back separates vertebrae! (R3)(S)(K)
Rank 8 back 60 Blow to back crushes spinal column. Talk about no backbone! (R3)(N3)(F)
Rank 9 back 70 Blow to back removes the spinal column! (R3)(F)

Nice work on the impact crit table. Is there some place where tables like are available? I started making the plasma one, but if it already exists I'm not gonna bother. Also, does anyone know which arkati have impact crits? The list on Krakiipedia doesn't have any impact critting gods listed, although there a few blank unknown ones, and I can't find it anywhere else.

All in all the impact table seems to have similar effects to the crush table, rank for rank, except that a rank 8 crush to the chest is survivable.

Charl is lightning

>CS spells are a bit more fickle with damage values. You can have different damage values for the same crit message which makes crit rank placement much more difficult than bolt spells. I'll organize what I have and post it up when I have some time.

I think this is only at the top rank. At least that is where I have noticed it, and I haven't seen it anywhere else. You can get rank 9+ crits with damage over and above the rank 9 damage.

>I wish that was the case, but it's not. All crit ranks are subject to limited variability with CS based attacks.

I have seen the critter resistance effects but it has always seemed pretty clear to me that it is a critter effect and can be isolated by working out what the resistance of that critter is. If it is a higher level than normal for that critter, it is obvious from its TD. You get a few wrong if you try pulling them out of a sparse dataset, but not if you have enough data to put anything close to a complete crit table together. I actually find it a good way to work out how much resistance a critter has rather than a problem in working out what the crit is.

Thanks again. I'm slightly confused though. I didn't think that mana disrupt used the vibration critical table. I thought it had the same table as 409. Interesting. Again, thanks for all your help in this. I know some long hours must've gone into those crit tables.