I want to know if using Web is feasible with the following as goals for level 100:
Minor Spiritual: 120
Major Spiritual: 25
Empath:..........100
Also, I've never made it past level 60. Is there a lot of immunity to Web at the higher levels?
Then also, would someone run through a level cap hunting area and collect Minor Spiritual TD data with Web?
TURNER5000
VANKRASN39
Re: Able to use Web
05/02/2018 01:45 PM CDT
>I want to know if using Web is feasible with the following as goals for level 100:
in what way? warding? bolt? Area is very easy to use.
TURNER5000
ZHOUY1
Re: Able to use Web
05/02/2018 03:11 PM CDT
Minor Spiritual TD is the same as any spiritual TD (the existing bestiary presentation is misleading in listing MnS/MjS/Cleric/Empath separately; semi circles have a separate pushdown). In any case that spread of spells gives you 475 MnS at level 100 which is enough to web most things with the -25 TD pushdown, though your Empath Base CS will be very low and you really should go up to 40 in MjS before then.
There is not a lot of outright immunity to Web except for Elementals, but a fair number of high level creatures can shake it off on their next action.
There is not a lot of outright immunity to Web except for Elementals, but a fair number of high level creatures can shake it off on their next action.
TURNER5000
TURNER5000
Re: Able to use Web
05/02/2018 03:36 PM CDT
Does the shaking it off substitute for their next attack?
So if the cast succeeded, would I then be guaranteed one safe weapon swing?
So if the cast succeeded, would I then be guaranteed one safe weapon swing?
KRAKII
Re: Able to use Web
05/02/2018 04:00 PM CDT
"Action", not attack. Their chosen action can be an attack, but it could also be to prep a spell (or if previously prepped: cast that one) or decide to move or...
There are some creatures who both break a disabler (like a stun) and stand up in the same action (arctic titans spring to mind, as I recall); other creatures have a chance of doing a flavor effect (goblins, roltons) or something else.
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Anything that can be done cheaply ("not-hunt-ending" cost) & quickly ("faster than creatures act") to cause a creature to use its action, is usually worth doing.
This could very well include having your macro set to drop that wooden cudgel with Minor Edge/902 on it (being magical, they will now pick it up)... and probably they inflict a hell of a lot less damage with it than whatever real weapon they were carrying.
Likewise, anything that makes their actions take longer than normal, is usually worth doing. (Slow/504, Pious Trial/1602, Depression/1015, for examples.) Not only have they spent their action getting less effective (trading their +0 steel sword or falchion or greatsword for a +15 wooden cudgel is NOT a bargain) but it takes them longer than normal to do it.
.
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TL:DR version: yes, use web, slow them down, take more actions. :)
There are some creatures who both break a disabler (like a stun) and stand up in the same action (arctic titans spring to mind, as I recall); other creatures have a chance of doing a flavor effect (goblins, roltons) or something else.
.
Anything that can be done cheaply ("not-hunt-ending" cost) & quickly ("faster than creatures act") to cause a creature to use its action, is usually worth doing.
This could very well include having your macro set to drop that wooden cudgel with Minor Edge/902 on it (being magical, they will now pick it up)... and probably they inflict a hell of a lot less damage with it than whatever real weapon they were carrying.
Likewise, anything that makes their actions take longer than normal, is usually worth doing. (Slow/504, Pious Trial/1602, Depression/1015, for examples.) Not only have they spent their action getting less effective (trading their +0 steel sword or falchion or greatsword for a +15 wooden cudgel is NOT a bargain) but it takes them longer than normal to do it.
.
.
TL:DR version: yes, use web, slow them down, take more actions. :)
TURNER5000
OM1E5GA
Re: Able to use Web
05/02/2018 06:46 PM CDT
<Anything that can be done cheaply ("not-hunt-ending" cost) & quickly ("faster than creatures act") to cause a creature to use its action, is usually worth doing.
This could very well include having your macro set to drop that wooden cudgel with Minor Edge/902 on it (being magical, they will now pick it up)... and probably they inflict a hell of a lot less damage with it than whatever real weapon they were carrying.>
I'd be careful with this. I could be misremembering, but it seems to me that most critters that will make use of dropped weapons/shields are capable of picking them up and attacking in the same action. I'm not really interested in verifying, but I'm pretty sure I've seen monkeys, krolvin, flesh golems, and hisskra all do this.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
This could very well include having your macro set to drop that wooden cudgel with Minor Edge/902 on it (being magical, they will now pick it up)... and probably they inflict a hell of a lot less damage with it than whatever real weapon they were carrying.>
I'd be careful with this. I could be misremembering, but it seems to me that most critters that will make use of dropped weapons/shields are capable of picking them up and attacking in the same action. I'm not really interested in verifying, but I'm pretty sure I've seen monkeys, krolvin, flesh golems, and hisskra all do this.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
KRAKII
Re: Able to use Web
05/03/2018 09:00 AM CDT
I think I've seen the drop/get as a single combined action, you're right. So it's a worthy caution. Not sure I recall drop/get/attack, but I could be mis-remembering and be willing to get convinced...
The point being that what they lose (in AvD point comparison and DF [should they actually get in a hit]) is more than making up for the paltry AS that they gain to try to hit you. You're a LOT safer getting tagged by a crap weapon like that than <whatever it is they normally use>.
(This is basically the opposite situation from cave trolls, who carried short swords [to do crap damage] but if you either cut off their arm (or Disarmed their weapon or blew it up with VibChant), they would use the Claw natural attack... which was WAY more dangerous. Giants with crap weapons vs. Pound natural attack, same thing.)
You are taking advantage of their desire to use a magical weapon, even though the weapon itself is lame.
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Warding spellcasters who use EWave--which does precisely bupkis to whether or not they can hit in a CS/TD check--are doing the same thing. An action that a creature spends just to stand up... they are NOT whacking on you. (And they will stand up, because they're removing the -50 from their physical attacks AS.)
Even with Tonis running for -3s RT, if my Bard gets knocked over (currently in Treekin, that could be getting bashed in the back by a warrior, kicked in the shin by a sapling, SpikeThorned by a druid, or <something else I can't recall>)...
...I lay there, and let the next round of Disruption go through to thin the deadwood.
THEN (during that handy 3s castRT) I stand up, when I couldn't be attacking/casting anyhow.
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Having them spend their time doing any of that, means it's one more cycle of "Them Not Hitting You," during which time "You Are Smashing Them."
The point being that what they lose (in AvD point comparison and DF [should they actually get in a hit]) is more than making up for the paltry AS that they gain to try to hit you. You're a LOT safer getting tagged by a crap weapon like that than <whatever it is they normally use>.
(This is basically the opposite situation from cave trolls, who carried short swords [to do crap damage] but if you either cut off their arm (or Disarmed their weapon or blew it up with VibChant), they would use the Claw natural attack... which was WAY more dangerous. Giants with crap weapons vs. Pound natural attack, same thing.)
You are taking advantage of their desire to use a magical weapon, even though the weapon itself is lame.
.
Warding spellcasters who use EWave--which does precisely bupkis to whether or not they can hit in a CS/TD check--are doing the same thing. An action that a creature spends just to stand up... they are NOT whacking on you. (And they will stand up, because they're removing the -50 from their physical attacks AS.)
Even with Tonis running for -3s RT, if my Bard gets knocked over (currently in Treekin, that could be getting bashed in the back by a warrior, kicked in the shin by a sapling, SpikeThorned by a druid, or <something else I can't recall>)...
...I lay there, and let the next round of Disruption go through to thin the deadwood.
THEN (during that handy 3s castRT) I stand up, when I couldn't be attacking/casting anyhow.
.
Having them spend their time doing any of that, means it's one more cycle of "Them Not Hitting You," during which time "You Are Smashing Them."
TURNER5000
Re: Able to use Web
05/20/2018 08:39 AM CDT
How often can creatures shake off the webbing and are immune to stun?
