So I was doing some tests with 102/120, because I wasn't sure if the MnS training bonus rounds up or down. (Answer: it rounds down; bonus comes with even-numbered ranks.)
I also discovered something I did not realize and don't see on the Wiki: apparently, if you keep refreshing these spells and never let them drop, you don't get the bonus for increased training in MnS until you've lost/dropped the spell and cast it again.
Turns out I hadn't let them drop for I don't know how long -- probably a few weeks or more. (Amminar's doing pretty well at not dying lately!) As a result, I was missing out on +4 DS for no good reason.
So, PSA for all minor spiritual folks who didn't know this: whenever you gain an even-numbered rank in Minor Spiritual, STOP 102 and 120 and cast them again.
Also, would be nice if this could be changed so that's not necessary! I've noticed that 313 (the cleric defensive spell that increases with rank) does not refresh normally after you've gained a rank, but instead is treated as a fresh cast... probably to deal with this same problem. Maybe something similar could happen with these spells?
AMMINAR
KRAKII
Re: PSA - 102/120
07/26/2015 08:18 PM CDT
I'm virtually positive that the "not getting the updated bonus" thing is universal: I remember that all of the Wizard (& Major Elemental) spells got talked about when the spells got changed. So it's probably "all spells".
DAID
Re: PSA - 102/120
07/26/2015 10:21 PM CDT
>I'm virtually positive that the "not getting the updated bonus" thing is universal: I remember that all of the Wizard (& Major Elemental) spells got talked about when the spells got changed. So it's probably "all spells".
Yeah that's standard for lots of stuff so far as I know.
This is essentially a sort of defect for the way spells appear to work. Take the case that someone casts 104 at your character with more lore ranks than you. It has now become impossible to refresh your own spell! The strange part about it is, the two effects are the opposite. With lores, an external character can grant you the extra bonuses from higher training (because lores benefits in this example are not self-cast limited).
In any case, I totally agree with you. This is known to happen, and it would be nice to see some kind of overhaul. If I had to make a guess, it's somehow in there as a protective element against some kind of abuse (I'm having trouble imagining it just now...in any way that's really overpowered), either that or just a kind of legacy coding effect.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Yeah that's standard for lots of stuff so far as I know.
This is essentially a sort of defect for the way spells appear to work. Take the case that someone casts 104 at your character with more lore ranks than you. It has now become impossible to refresh your own spell! The strange part about it is, the two effects are the opposite. With lores, an external character can grant you the extra bonuses from higher training (because lores benefits in this example are not self-cast limited).
In any case, I totally agree with you. This is known to happen, and it would be nice to see some kind of overhaul. If I had to make a guess, it's somehow in there as a protective element against some kind of abuse (I'm having trouble imagining it just now...in any way that's really overpowered), either that or just a kind of legacy coding effect.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
AMMINAR
Re: PSA - 102/120
07/27/2015 12:03 AM CDT
<In any case, I totally agree with you. This is known to happen, and it would be nice to see some kind of overhaul. If I had to make a guess, it's somehow in there as a protective element against some kind of abuse (I'm having trouble imagining it just now...in any way that's really overpowered), either that or just a kind of legacy coding effect.
I think it's probably the latter. There is a solution used by at least one spell (that I know of) -- 313. Every time you gain a level (and improve the spell by keeping cleric ranks at or above level), the next cast of the spell is treated as a fresh cast, dropping the version previously active. Not a perfect solution, but better than having to remember to stop all the spells that might be affected by training and put them back up!
Also they have found some way to take into account the different-powered-casters problem with lores in 107 at least (the 'deep blue motes' that more powerful casters can give you that go away separately from your own casts when that duration is up.) I have exactly zero experience using 104, though, so not sure what happens there.
Oh and P.S. Amminar died an hour after I made this post, bragging that he hadn't died in so long. (Of course!)
I think it's probably the latter. There is a solution used by at least one spell (that I know of) -- 313. Every time you gain a level (and improve the spell by keeping cleric ranks at or above level), the next cast of the spell is treated as a fresh cast, dropping the version previously active. Not a perfect solution, but better than having to remember to stop all the spells that might be affected by training and put them back up!
Also they have found some way to take into account the different-powered-casters problem with lores in 107 at least (the 'deep blue motes' that more powerful casters can give you that go away separately from your own casts when that duration is up.) I have exactly zero experience using 104, though, so not sure what happens there.
Oh and P.S. Amminar died an hour after I made this post, bragging that he hadn't died in so long. (Of course!)
