I think I'd like to suggest (if Meteor Strike has to be done away with. :( )
Elemental Command (525)
Duration 10 minutes
Self-cast
When a wizard casts Elemental Command, for 10 minutes, she creates a temporary attunement that allows phantom elemental ranks of her choosing. The spell grants a base 20 ranks in the element specified. One additional rank per 5 mana above 20.
Use: invoke 525 30 fire
Result: Grants 50 ranks of EL:F for all combat roll related determination
Mana cost: 20 base plus 30*5 = 170 mana
Cooldown: As appropriate. Would recommend something like 10 minutes or maybe 20 minutes. Not much more, though. Can be influenced by EL:W at your favorite non-10 seed.
Potential improvement - ranks of EMC affecting cooldown? Affecting mana cost?
The key purpose of this spell is to allow the wizard to slightly tailor their EL ranks while hunting specific creatures, to permit unlocks / DFs and other goodness as appropriate.
Limitation: Only affects combat spells.
Doug
DOUG
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/02/2017 09:36 PM CDT
As an alternative suggestion I'd love to see a barrier spell of some sort that effectively manages the crowd in the room by preventing other creatures from entering or leaving for a period of time.
-- Robert
You gesture at Dionket.
You hurl a small surge of electricity at Dionket!
Horrid jolt of electricity shatters ribs in a sickening flash of light!
Dionket is stunned!
<< PING! >>
You avert your eyes as Dionket begins to radiate a blotchy balsamic brown hue.
-- Robert
You gesture at Dionket.
You hurl a small surge of electricity at Dionket!
Horrid jolt of electricity shatters ribs in a sickening flash of light!
Dionket is stunned!
<< PING! >>
You avert your eyes as Dionket begins to radiate a blotchy balsamic brown hue.
MEKK1
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/02/2017 09:39 PM CDT
CANDIDE
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/02/2017 10:51 PM CDT
I do not understand why 525 has lasted this long. It is crazy to me. Move this spell to the arcane list and make a multihit single target bolt in this spot. I think this would solve so many things. A two location hit bolt would be as deadly as 1030 (to a single target) and do more damage if just the base bolts for damage are used. Three locations hit bolt would a dream come true.
GBB
GBB
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/02/2017 11:06 PM CDT
It's still there because we haven't come up with something better to fill the slot. Why move it / remove it if you don't have anything to fill the spot with?
-- Robert
-- Robert
CANDIDE
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/02/2017 11:25 PM CDT
"It's still there because we haven't come up with something better to fill the slot. Why move it / remove it if you don't have anything to fill the spot with?
-- Robert"
IMO a spell that summons a cow would be better. I have never casted this spell. If the problem is to keep creatures with it for invasions then by all means keep in the arcane circle. Until then have a cow or don't have a cow....however you like. We have offered dozens of spells for this slot.
GBB
-- Robert"
IMO a spell that summons a cow would be better. I have never casted this spell. If the problem is to keep creatures with it for invasions then by all means keep in the arcane circle. Until then have a cow or don't have a cow....however you like. We have offered dozens of spells for this slot.
GBB
KANDOR
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/02/2017 11:30 PM CDT
Just an observation -- 917 feels much more dangerous than 525 now.
MEKK1
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/02/2017 11:30 PM CDT
Not a replacement for 525. Make two "new" spells, minor meteor and major meteor. 20 ranks of earth lore unlocks minor meteor for 906. 20 ranks of fire lore unlocks major meteor for Hurl Boulder. Both new spells would have DF increased thru what the lore the original spell used and the new lore that it is unlocked thru.
http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
DOUG
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/02/2017 11:37 PM CDT
I like 525, myself. But with the advent of recent spells (so in the last year), it is showing its long tooth. I always thought we'd retire together, my Meteor Swarm, and me. . . le sigh.
I wouldn't move it to Arcane, though. Just get rid of it (I like MEKK1's suggestion on Hurl Boulder, though - could be fun!)
And also, if we're going to go single target multi-bolt every time, I'd just base it off 518 and be done. The problem is that then, no doubt, some GM (looking at you, Naos!) would base it off of MoC. Caniption city for me, at that point!
Leave 525 free (for Elemental Command).
;)
Doug
I wouldn't move it to Arcane, though. Just get rid of it (I like MEKK1's suggestion on Hurl Boulder, though - could be fun!)
And also, if we're going to go single target multi-bolt every time, I'd just base it off 518 and be done. The problem is that then, no doubt, some GM (looking at you, Naos!) would base it off of MoC. Caniption city for me, at that point!
Leave 525 free (for Elemental Command).
;)
Doug
DRUMPEL
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 07:53 AM CDT
>IMO a spell that summons a cow would be better. I have never casted this spell. If the problem is to keep creatures with it for invasions then by all means keep in the arcane circle. Until then have a cow or don't have a cow....however you like. We have offered dozens of spells for this slot.
See Rolton Bombardment - http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Wizards/Developer's%20Corner%20-%20Wizards/view/3133
Granted, it's not a cow, but roltons are kind of similar.
>Not a replacement for 525. Make two "new" spells, minor meteor and major meteor. 20 ranks of earth lore unlocks minor meteor for 906. 20 ranks of fire lore unlocks major meteor for Hurl Boulder. Both new spells would have DF increased thru what the lore the original spell used and the new lore that it is unlocked thru.
Eh, I'm not a fan of a special bolt unlocking just because you trained X amount of some lore. I may make great use of 510 (I don't bother with 910) especially with all the EL:E my wizard has, but he's not going to be training in some EL:F just to unlock some special bolt. He hasn't trained in EL:F or EL:A to unlock Steam or Tonis Bolt, any other bolt unlock won't get him to train in other lores to simply unlock a bolt.
Had he access to those two bolts if there were just given as basic bolts for wizards without needing to unlock them with 20 ranks of such and such lores, sure, he probably would have made use of them. But adding a special bolt because you diverted the limited number of lore ranks that wizards get to another lore, simply for unlocking a bolt, seems like a forced method to get wizards to try and spread out their limited lores.
-Drumpel
See Rolton Bombardment - http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Wizards/Developer's%20Corner%20-%20Wizards/view/3133
Granted, it's not a cow, but roltons are kind of similar.
>Not a replacement for 525. Make two "new" spells, minor meteor and major meteor. 20 ranks of earth lore unlocks minor meteor for 906. 20 ranks of fire lore unlocks major meteor for Hurl Boulder. Both new spells would have DF increased thru what the lore the original spell used and the new lore that it is unlocked thru.
Eh, I'm not a fan of a special bolt unlocking just because you trained X amount of some lore. I may make great use of 510 (I don't bother with 910) especially with all the EL:E my wizard has, but he's not going to be training in some EL:F just to unlock some special bolt. He hasn't trained in EL:F or EL:A to unlock Steam or Tonis Bolt, any other bolt unlock won't get him to train in other lores to simply unlock a bolt.
Had he access to those two bolts if there were just given as basic bolts for wizards without needing to unlock them with 20 ranks of such and such lores, sure, he probably would have made use of them. But adding a special bolt because you diverted the limited number of lore ranks that wizards get to another lore, simply for unlocking a bolt, seems like a forced method to get wizards to try and spread out their limited lores.
-Drumpel
MEKK1
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 09:03 AM CDT
<Had he access to those two bolts if there were just given as basic bolts for wizards without needing to unlock them with 20 ranks of such and such lores, sure, he probably would have made use of them. But adding a special bolt because you diverted the limited number of lore ranks that wizards get to another lore, simply for unlocking a bolt, seems like a forced method to get wizards to try and spread out their limited lores.
-Drumpel>
Lets assume nothing is going to happen to either of those spells further. Cause there probably won't be. What would it matter if this was added? It would neither hurt or benefit you. Nothing would change for you, but someone might make great use of it.
Would just getting handed it be the best, sure. Is that ever going to happen, no. They seem to be dead set on making us unlock things thru lore, so it only seems prudent to offer suggestions in that vein.
http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
-Drumpel>
Lets assume nothing is going to happen to either of those spells further. Cause there probably won't be. What would it matter if this was added? It would neither hurt or benefit you. Nothing would change for you, but someone might make great use of it.
Would just getting handed it be the best, sure. Is that ever going to happen, no. They seem to be dead set on making us unlock things thru lore, so it only seems prudent to offer suggestions in that vein.
http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
KRAKII
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 09:22 AM CDT
<single-target Meteor Swarm> -- various
See also, Order of the Stick!
[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html (specifically, the last panel of the second page)]
See also, Order of the Stick!
[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html (specifically, the last panel of the second page)]
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 01:49 PM CDT
>Elemental Command (525)
>Duration 10 minutes
>Self-cast
Despite Meteor Swarm's effective "uselessness", I would really hate to trade in what's arguably one of the most powerful offensive spells in the entire game for something like this. Not to mention this should be built into ATTUNE instead anyway.
If it would absolutely have to go into a spell slot instead of being built into ATTUNE like it already should be, 514/914/915 would be a much better place for it. If/when they do get around to doing something with 525, I expect it to be a heavy offensive spell.
>It's still there because we haven't come up with something better to fill the slot. Why move it / remove it if you don't have anything to fill the spot with?
There have been tons of ideas for 525 tossed around on here over the years. Not all were good of course, but a lot of them were.
>Lets assume nothing is going to happen to either of those spells further. Cause there probably won't be. What would it matter if this was added? It would neither hurt or benefit you. Nothing would change for you, but someone might make great use of it.
My guess would be probably because we're trying to get away from lore requirements just to use something at all, as opposed to lore enhancing what's already there, which was the original intent of lores.
~ Methais
>Duration 10 minutes
>Self-cast
Despite Meteor Swarm's effective "uselessness", I would really hate to trade in what's arguably one of the most powerful offensive spells in the entire game for something like this. Not to mention this should be built into ATTUNE instead anyway.
If it would absolutely have to go into a spell slot instead of being built into ATTUNE like it already should be, 514/914/915 would be a much better place for it. If/when they do get around to doing something with 525, I expect it to be a heavy offensive spell.
>It's still there because we haven't come up with something better to fill the slot. Why move it / remove it if you don't have anything to fill the spot with?
There have been tons of ideas for 525 tossed around on here over the years. Not all were good of course, but a lot of them were.
>Lets assume nothing is going to happen to either of those spells further. Cause there probably won't be. What would it matter if this was added? It would neither hurt or benefit you. Nothing would change for you, but someone might make great use of it.
My guess would be probably because we're trying to get away from lore requirements just to use something at all, as opposed to lore enhancing what's already there, which was the original intent of lores.
~ Methais
DOUG
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 02:19 PM CDT
>>Not to mention this should be built into ATTUNE instead anyway.
So we disagree that anything that is simple choice, never gets trained in or improved, and is designed to set limitations should be used this way. Just stating that for clarity. But - I'm curious how you would suggest a spell that allows you to choose be put into ATTUNE.
Less concerned about where in the spell list it comes in, except - it would have to be higher than 20th level. And it can't be the minor elemental. But it could be either the major elemental or the wizard. I suggested major elemental for a specific reason. Don't see how the lower order spells could be used for this, though.
Doug
So we disagree that anything that is simple choice, never gets trained in or improved, and is designed to set limitations should be used this way. Just stating that for clarity. But - I'm curious how you would suggest a spell that allows you to choose be put into ATTUNE.
Less concerned about where in the spell list it comes in, except - it would have to be higher than 20th level. And it can't be the minor elemental. But it could be either the major elemental or the wizard. I suggested major elemental for a specific reason. Don't see how the lower order spells could be used for this, though.
Doug
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 02:56 PM CDT
>But - I'm curious how you would suggest a spell that allows you to choose be put into ATTUNE.
I'm saying that ATTUNE should already grant phantom lore ranks in its respective element. Just like I've been saying for a while now.
>Less concerned about where in the spell list it comes in, except - it would have to be higher than 20th level. And it can't be the minor elemental. But it could be either the major elemental or the wizard. I suggested major elemental for a specific reason. Don't see how the lower order spells could be used for this, though.
I don't think it should be put in a spell slot at all though, because ATTUNE should already grant phantom lore ranks. And that if it absolutely did have to take up a spell slot, I wouldn't consider it worthy of a level 20+ slot, and certainly not as a replacement to Meteor Swarm, as I do, for some strange reason, still hold out hope that Simu will one day #MMGA.
~ Methais
I'm saying that ATTUNE should already grant phantom lore ranks in its respective element. Just like I've been saying for a while now.
>Less concerned about where in the spell list it comes in, except - it would have to be higher than 20th level. And it can't be the minor elemental. But it could be either the major elemental or the wizard. I suggested major elemental for a specific reason. Don't see how the lower order spells could be used for this, though.
I don't think it should be put in a spell slot at all though, because ATTUNE should already grant phantom lore ranks. And that if it absolutely did have to take up a spell slot, I wouldn't consider it worthy of a level 20+ slot, and certainly not as a replacement to Meteor Swarm, as I do, for some strange reason, still hold out hope that Simu will one day #MMGA.
~ Methais
KRAKII
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 03:01 PM CDT
I could get behind a posture of, "If I am casting a spell--or being hit by an attack where I have a defensive spell active that would matter--and it requires some number of Lore ranks for FIRST level of BenefitX, if I am Attuned to that Lore, then I am considered to have that many ranks."
Basically, you get the first benefit. (Yes, this would mean Tonis Bolt would come free, because that's the 'first step' [the ONLY one, too] benefit. But only for Air-attuned Mages.)
Too powerful? (Particularly for someone wanting their basic shot at all those LotteryBenefits from the ELR, without an actual Lore rank in that Element.) Put a cooldown on it, of 10-15 seconds or whatever.
Basically, you get the first benefit. (Yes, this would mean Tonis Bolt would come free, because that's the 'first step' [the ONLY one, too] benefit. But only for Air-attuned Mages.)
Too powerful? (Particularly for someone wanting their basic shot at all those LotteryBenefits from the ELR, without an actual Lore rank in that Element.) Put a cooldown on it, of 10-15 seconds or whatever.
LADYFLEUR
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 03:32 PM CDT
>Put a cooldown on it, of 10-15 seconds or whatever.
I disagree on cooldowns of any kind on our offensive spells, as this isn't something any other pure or semi profession suffers from.
I disagree on cooldowns of any kind on our offensive spells, as this isn't something any other pure or semi profession suffers from.
DOUG
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 03:45 PM CDT
>>I wouldn't consider it worthy of a level 20+
Depends on what it does. From my suggestion, for 10 minutes, you can rewrite your character's attunement and / or lore training (if you have enough mana). While it's a pain to the player, keep in mind the importance of these choices / skills in the game framework. Set aside the annoyance and look at impact against the intended design.
Hmm. . . but. But. BUT! Wasn't there a Methais quote about holding out hope? Hmm. . . time to hit the archives!
Doug
Depends on what it does. From my suggestion, for 10 minutes, you can rewrite your character's attunement and / or lore training (if you have enough mana). While it's a pain to the player, keep in mind the importance of these choices / skills in the game framework. Set aside the annoyance and look at impact against the intended design.
Hmm. . . but. But. BUT! Wasn't there a Methais quote about holding out hope? Hmm. . . time to hit the archives!
Doug
DOUG
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 03:48 PM CDT
>>this isn't something any other pure or semi profession
Hmm. Not a single one? I'm skeptical. I do expect wizards to have the highest bevy of them. I do have a reason for that. And no, I don't like it, so don't read into it.
Doug
Hmm. Not a single one? I'm skeptical. I do expect wizards to have the highest bevy of them. I do have a reason for that. And no, I don't like it, so don't read into it.
Doug
LADYFLEUR
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 04:23 PM CDT
>Not a single one? I'm skeptical.
Nope. I play every pure and semi profession (except paladins), so I know this is true.
>I do expect wizards to have the highest bevy of them.
I don't. I disagree with expecting less out of wizards than any other pure or semi profession. I aim to overachieve, not underachieve, as that's what I find fun at the post-cap level. Or I would have just switched to a profession that allows it already if we were granted a profession change to another pure, which we should have been if our class vision is intended to be so contradictory to what many at the post-cap level enjoyed about wizards before.
Nope. I play every pure and semi profession (except paladins), so I know this is true.
>I do expect wizards to have the highest bevy of them.
I don't. I disagree with expecting less out of wizards than any other pure or semi profession. I aim to overachieve, not underachieve, as that's what I find fun at the post-cap level. Or I would have just switched to a profession that allows it already if we were granted a profession change to another pure, which we should have been if our class vision is intended to be so contradictory to what many at the post-cap level enjoyed about wizards before.
DOUG
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 06:50 PM CDT
>>Nope. I play every pure and semi profession
As do I, and at differing levels. But I can't profess to be an expert in them all. Always more for me to learn! I cede the point.
>>I don't.
I feel you may misunderstand. I repeat: " And no, I don't like it".
>>Or I would have just switched to a profession that allows it already if we were granted a profession change to another pure
And I truly hope your wish is granted, with the option to revert should the profession again become fun for you.
Doug
As do I, and at differing levels. But I can't profess to be an expert in them all. Always more for me to learn! I cede the point.
>>I don't.
I feel you may misunderstand. I repeat: " And no, I don't like it".
>>Or I would have just switched to a profession that allows it already if we were granted a profession change to another pure
And I truly hope your wish is granted, with the option to revert should the profession again become fun for you.
Doug
MEKK1
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/03/2017 08:30 PM CDT
<My guess would be probably because we're trying to get away from lore requirements just to use something at all, as opposed to lore enhancing what's already there, which was the original intent of lores. ~methais>
But that is exactly what this is. It is an evoked version of that spell, you still have the base spell and if you have the lore your boulder gets surrounded in fire or your steam of fire gets a rock core. Nothing is taken away from the original spell but the spell is enhanced.
http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
But that is exactly what this is. It is an evoked version of that spell, you still have the base spell and if you have the lore your boulder gets surrounded in fire or your steam of fire gets a rock core. Nothing is taken away from the original spell but the spell is enhanced.
http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif
GAROFALOA
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/28/2017 06:37 PM CDT
Leave meteor swarm alone! I swear, I'm gonna go on a spree if you armchair experts don't knock it off. I want it better, not gone!
GAROFALOA
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/28/2017 06:54 PM CDT
Guys, let's put a human aspect to the nuts and bolts of meteor swarm for a second. It's become, for better or worse, a part of my character's lore. In terms of gameplay? I've probably only used it a half a dozen times, including the small incident that occurred with Rozy during the GM open house on New Years Eve.
In storyline s past, I've stopped invading armies, sunk Krolvin slave ships, and what have you.
It's become a part of my character so much, that I've altered my armor and gotten meteor tatoos from farain
I concede that something should be done to revamp it. But, take things like this into consideration when you guys decide to play armchair GM and decide to rewrite the spell lists. And leave 525 alone(that goes for you dev team!)
And I'd also like to once again beat a dead horse and remind dev team and armchair GMs that some of us do chose our lores based on how we portray our characters. Not just for mechanical benefits.
-Andrew
Hapenlok
VICIMER
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/28/2017 09:27 PM CDT
It's weird. Meteor Swarm in Gemstone isn't usable because it's too damaging and in D&D it's too weak for the spell slot.
**********************
A quick flick of Wyrom's wrist sends a dagger into flight!
The thorny barrier surrounding you blocks Wyrom's attack!
One of the vines surrounding you lashes out at Wyrom, driving a thorn into his skin! Wyrom flinches slightly.
**********************
A quick flick of Wyrom's wrist sends a dagger into flight!
The thorny barrier surrounding you blocks Wyrom's attack!
One of the vines surrounding you lashes out at Wyrom, driving a thorn into his skin! Wyrom flinches slightly.
GS4-ESTILD
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/29/2017 02:03 PM CDT
If and when we get to 525, it'll be redesigned to be useful while staying with the current concept. We have no intentions of removing it.
GameMaster Estild
GameMaster Estild
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/29/2017 02:11 PM CDT
>If and when we get to 525, it'll be redesigned to be useful while staying with the current concept. We have no intentions of removing it.
https://68.media.tumblr.com/d1fd0e45eded8f51363c67c3efa666b0/tumblr_mv00n22k4g1s24m93o1_400.gif
~ Methais
https://68.media.tumblr.com/d1fd0e45eded8f51363c67c3efa666b0/tumblr_mv00n22k4g1s24m93o1_400.gif
~ Methais
GS4-VIDUUS
Re: 525 Improvement Idea
05/29/2017 08:15 PM CDT
