Creating a thread for this discussion to bring a bit of focus here, and to 517 spell improvement suggestions.
>>When I talk about giving everything wizards have away for free, look no further than 515, which is still inexplicably other-cast despite not being imbeddable even after all the nerfs, and there's no restriction on the wizard needing to be present as part of the group.
If it is other-cast, I wouldn't expect to see any requirement to be present as a member of the group. So that ties. The real question is should it be 'other-cast' or not.
Most of the spells available to the spiritual classes that fall into this bucket are offensive / defensive spells. There might be a utility spell or two in the spirit lists, but I can't think of any that work this way. Help?
At any rate, that 'utility' moniker is important here. A cleric isn't likely to cast the group Heroism (215) in town, because by the time the hunting grounds had been reached, the duration will be elapsed or nearly elapsed.
The same holds true for Rapid Fire (515), but unlike a defensive or offensive spell and the positional requirement of 'hunting grounds', rapid fire can be used in non-combat situations, and in many various locations like in town. As such, and given our ability to 'help others with their tasks', I think this is appropriate.
Most of the reference spiritual spells cannot be imbedded either. Yes, I know about certain other matters.
One player suggested we open this up wider, so that spells from all lists are more freely available. I offered the position that 'utility' is a wizard's forte and I wouldn't want to see that destroyed. I take the same position here - 'utility' is a wizard's forte, and it would hamper the profession's design to pull back all sharing / availability because of some sense of desired (but I say unnecessary) equality. We don't need equality, we need differentiation. One of those differences is wizard / utility. Don't destroy that.
Doug
DOUG
LADYFLEUR
Re: 515 Given Away
04/26/2017 09:14 PM CDT
>The same holds true for Rapid Fire (515), but unlike a defensive or offensive spell and the positional requirement of 'hunting grounds', rapid fire can be used in non-combat situations, and in many various locations like in town. As such, and given our ability to 'help others with their tasks', I think this is appropriate.
This is completely false that other professions need Rapid Fire to help them in non-combat situations. That's what multi-cast was designed to address, as another NIR has already pointed out in the past.
>I offered the position that 'utility' is a wizard's forte and I wouldn't want to see that destroyed. I take the same position here - 'utility' is a wizard's forte, and it would hamper the profession's design to pull back all sharing / availability because of some sense of desired (but I say unnecessary) equality. We don't need equality, we need differentiation. One of those differences is wizard / utility. Don't destroy that.
I never played a wizard, since GS3, because of wanting to be a utility profession. The utility designation was forced upon us. Now there are so many, people will cry if their utility is "destroyed". There are still plenty of regular buffs that are fully balanced for that a wizard can share without being turned into a bot logged in to provide X spell and then logged out. I disagree with the design inconsistency of not first adjusting spells as necessary to protect those who play the profession first, rather than to give everything away to others.
This is completely false that other professions need Rapid Fire to help them in non-combat situations. That's what multi-cast was designed to address, as another NIR has already pointed out in the past.
>I offered the position that 'utility' is a wizard's forte and I wouldn't want to see that destroyed. I take the same position here - 'utility' is a wizard's forte, and it would hamper the profession's design to pull back all sharing / availability because of some sense of desired (but I say unnecessary) equality. We don't need equality, we need differentiation. One of those differences is wizard / utility. Don't destroy that.
I never played a wizard, since GS3, because of wanting to be a utility profession. The utility designation was forced upon us. Now there are so many, people will cry if their utility is "destroyed". There are still plenty of regular buffs that are fully balanced for that a wizard can share without being turned into a bot logged in to provide X spell and then logged out. I disagree with the design inconsistency of not first adjusting spells as necessary to protect those who play the profession first, rather than to give everything away to others.
DOUG
Re: 515 Given Away
04/26/2017 10:39 PM CDT
>>This is completely false that other professions need Rapid Fire to help them in non-combat situations.
I never said they did. I said our ABILITY to help them, not their NEED for our help. I enjoy helping others. I'm not sure how you can think that's completely false, but I assure you - it is completely factual and totally AFE proof!
>>That's what multi-cast was designed to address, as another NIR has already pointed out in the past.
Yep, to cut down the screen scrolling that occurred in a short period of time. As an interesting point to contemplate - it would have been much easier to just move Rapid Fire to self cast to solve that issue, and yet the extra Dev time was devoted to fix the problem at its cause.
>> I disagree with the design inconsistency of not first adjusting spells as necessary to protect those who play the profession first, rather than to give everything away to others.
I can see arguments made for other spells, but we landed here - so I would like to understand more. In what way is Rapid Fire, specifically this spell and that this spell can be cast on others, causing you to feel your wizard is unprotected? Bonus points if you can work in that this spell cannot be found on scrolls - unlike most other 'protected' profession spells that can.
>>The utility designation was forced upon us.
That designation has been around since before any of us (with the possible exception of Robert) started playing. I chose the profession because of that designation specifically.
Doug
I never said they did. I said our ABILITY to help them, not their NEED for our help. I enjoy helping others. I'm not sure how you can think that's completely false, but I assure you - it is completely factual and totally AFE proof!
>>That's what multi-cast was designed to address, as another NIR has already pointed out in the past.
Yep, to cut down the screen scrolling that occurred in a short period of time. As an interesting point to contemplate - it would have been much easier to just move Rapid Fire to self cast to solve that issue, and yet the extra Dev time was devoted to fix the problem at its cause.
>> I disagree with the design inconsistency of not first adjusting spells as necessary to protect those who play the profession first, rather than to give everything away to others.
I can see arguments made for other spells, but we landed here - so I would like to understand more. In what way is Rapid Fire, specifically this spell and that this spell can be cast on others, causing you to feel your wizard is unprotected? Bonus points if you can work in that this spell cannot be found on scrolls - unlike most other 'protected' profession spells that can.
>>The utility designation was forced upon us.
That designation has been around since before any of us (with the possible exception of Robert) started playing. I chose the profession because of that designation specifically.
Doug
