Hey folks, I'm looking to get some opinions or insight from others regarding the Goddess Lorminstra, the Ebon Gate, and Resurrection for my Lorminstra worshipping cleric.

I'll be reposting information as found on the GSIV Wiki to discuss my take on what the lore means and hopefully hear from others as well to gain some greater insight.

Lorminstra

Lorminstra is the Goddess of Death and Rebirth. She is the eldest offspring of Koar and Lumnis.

Lorminstra is also the Goddess of Winter, that annual "death" of nature which parallels the death and rebirth of souls. Lorminstra is also the Keeper of the Ebon Gate. It is her decision whether a soul is allowed to return to Elanthia each time an appeal is made via a ritual of resurrection, and even Koar will not gainsay her decision.

Lorminstra regards Luukos' enslavement of souls to animate his undead as abominable. She supports her brother, Ronan, in his struggle against Luukos' minions, and also petitions Koar frequently to take direct measures to curb Luukos' activities.

Lorminstra's preferred humanoid manifestation is that of a thin woman with black hair and pale alabaster skin. She wears two layers of robes, black over white, and at her side dangles a ring of keys, one for every soul. In manner, she is somber yet caring. Her symbol is a golden key, or a golden key set upon a gate of black.

The main point I'd like some clarification on is the claim that "It is her decision whether a soul is allowed to return to Elanthia each time an appeal is made via a ritual of resurrection, and even Koar will not gainsay her decision."

How does this mesh with clerics belonging to the Pantheon of Lornon or clerics that pray to a different Arkati when resurrecting an adventurer?

*Ebon Gate*

The Ebon Gate is the gateway through which the souls are said to pass through when they have died their final death on Elanthia. Lorminstra, the Goddess of Winter and Rebirth, watches over the Ebon Gate and decides which souls may return to the mortal realm through resurrection, and which pass through the gate forever. Gosaena, the Goddess of Death and Eternity, resides on the other side. It is not known what fate awaits souls beyond the Ebon Gate. It unclear where the Ebon Gate is currently located in the world system, though the Koargard religion seemingly associates it with Mount Aenatumgana.

In the archaic lore it was called the Gates of Oblivion, located on the moon Orhan (Liabo), where the other side of the portal was called Purgatory. It was essentially a form of limbo with souls floating in a timeless nothingness waiting for their fates. The ultimate fate in the death mechanics (except in rare circumstances) until the implementation of GemStone IV was to lose all identity and memory in Oblivion. In the Half-Krolvin religion for the contemporary lore, Oblivion is replaced with the word Krefka, and the similar concept is used of the end of suffering in the annihilation of identity and the soul itself.

Based on the lore I've read, I view the Ebon Gate as being similar to the river Lethe in Greek Mythology. When beings pass through the Ebon Gate they are stripped of their identity (deeds) and essentially become neutral. This makes sense to me as Gosaena governs the realm or plane of existence beyond the Ebon Gate.

Luukos

Luukos is able to claim the souls not only of those he takes by force through his undead minions, but also of those who have sullied themselves in life. Thus, Luukos is also the Lord of Lies, and his minions always seek to spread misinformation among mortals. Legend holds that Luukos can snatch the soul of one who has died with a lie on their lips even from Lorminstra, and that the only way to be free from his hideous jaws is to renounce the lie.

I don't see Lorminstra as being concerned with the physical bodies, but merely the soul. She's not going to concern herself with the rights or wrongs of the various races and focuses upon those acts that she believes corrupt the soul. Examples might include the practice of demonology, necromancy, and abilities (COL Signs) or rituals that pervert a soul's essence. As far as lies are concerned, I think this is an example of how a person generally lives their life. Someone that knowingly lies for greed and malice versus someone that honestly believes a falsehood or tells a falsehood to spare someone pain.


Again, I'm looking for other's opinions and looking to have an open discussion. Thanks for taking the time.


As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4

<<When beings pass through the Ebon Gate they are stripped of their identity (deeds) and essentially become neutral. This makes sense to me as Gosaena governs the realm or plane of existence beyond the Ebon Gate.>>

The reason that part of the Wiki article says that is because it is what happened when you decayed without having any deeds. (It happens to be older than the Gosaena lore entirely.) That was still the case for a handful of years after the current form of the gods document was written. But you can't "go demonic" anymore, so, who knows?

In time your soul finds a home, be it in the light or the darkness, but not again in the mortal world.

As the last memories of your existence fade, an image of the Goddess Lorminstra, who guards the Gates

of Oblivion, tempts your hindsight.

[Purgatory]

It appears that your mortal life has ended once and for all, and that Lorminstra shall be embracing you

shortly. This Purgatory is here to provide you with information about what to expect as you move on to

the next stage of your existence. Before you is The Afterlife. You will need to enter it in order to

create a new character for yourself. --->

You can LOOK AT THE AFTERLIFE to get information about what to expect now that your character has died

permanently. When you are ready, simply RETIRE.

Obvious exits: none.

This idea of lost memories was also represented in the messaging when you decayed and were resurrected. The wording is almost the same now, but it cut the line about your memories coming back. Purgatory and Oblivion are gone. The messaging seems to be heavily based on a handful of H.P. Lovecraft's Dreamland stories:

Suddenly you feel an intense pain scorching your very soul! The world of your past suddenly comes rushing

back into your memory. You are quite bewildered by what has transpired, but alive...

The basic problem is that all of the various things and documents about this stuff come from different points in OOC history. They will have had contexts in a given time that are lost when you mix them all together, or were vestigial and got retconned like deeds. The religious lore is also horribly inconsistent if you really start pressing it.


<<The main point I'd like some clarification on is the claim that "It is her decision whether a soul is allowed to return to Elanthia each time an appeal is made via a ritual of resurrection, and even Koar will not gainsay her decision.">>

This line goes back to the most original form of her documentation: "Eissa is the deity appealed to when a religious 'Lifegiving' is administered." Originally, the idea was that she would refuse if the person had lived long enough or died in a significant way (I think deeds were originally a loophole for this), and her big hang-up was soul annihilation rather than the undead. For what it is worth, it is still possible through an obscure mechanic to sacrifice your soul to Luukos, where your spirit goes to an icy cavern below Lornon.

It is very old. He does not resemble his current "preferred humanoid manifestation", he is depicted having a lizard head. He feeds on your soul and you get dropped back out through a black vortex. But you can still do it. I do not know what the messaging was if you went "demonic" that way.

DEAD>

Slowly the world begins to dissolve in a vortex of utter blackness...

[Lornon]

You find yourself in a barren cavern of black ice, totally alien to your sensibilities. There

are no exits in the seamless dark walls, and you wonder what forces have brought you here...

The Dark God Luukos appears before you in a sudden flash of stinking brimstone. Your eyes follow

his tall, muscular form up to his lizardlike head, and meeting his cold, slitted eyes you begin

to fear for your very soul.

Luukos looks at you with displeasure. "You seek to honor me with a sacrifice?", he hisses angrily.

"Perhaps if you were not so weakened from such a recent death, you would present a more appetizing

picture." Luukos reaches into your soul and tears it out by the roots, flinging you away from himself

when he is finished consuming it. To your surprise, you find yourself with a tenuous grasp on the

universe, and your sole thought as you fall seemingly forever is that of amazement that you still

live . . .

Your fall is broken by the hard earth beneath you as you awaken, dazed and bewildered, but alive

nonetheless...

Back then the idea was that there were flows of essence between the planet and the moon, and the Gates of Oblivion were on the moon of the light gods, and souls would tend to drift that way along a current. Cleric powers were explicitly defined as originating in a deity, so Eissa (Lorminstra) was the one you appealed to for resurrection. Her pantheon was the only one with global reach power wise, other than the dark gods on the other moon, whose followers would have to be Evil Clerics whose profession had necromancy rather than resurrection spells. So in that original context it was a simple matter of the other "Liaboans" defer to her on that and the Dark Gods are not even relevant.

These days all of the other deities have their own specific resurrection messaging. What the others do not do is reincarnate souls that have left the body. Only Lorminstra does that, other than the one obscure loophole with Luukos I just posted. I think this is the fundamental idea of why the Broken Lands was supposed to be so evil.

- Xorus' player

---

>throw shade
You cannot throw a lesser shade!

Actually, if you read that Luukos messaging carefully in its exact wording, it is implying your body gets physically transported back and forth with Lornon.

So that avoids the reincarnation issue entirely, he just doesn't finish off your soul. Maybe originally a lingering protection from having deeds.

- Xorus' player

---

>throw shade
You cannot throw a lesser shade!

This is one where he is pleased with the sacrifice. I think I only have two of the variants, but I've never seen what the message was when you went demonic. It has to be different from the Purgatory / Gates of Oblivion message, but still have the mechanic for rerolling or retiring the character / family.

---

Slowly the world begins to dissolve in a vortex of utter blackness...

[Lornon]
You find yourself in a barren cavern of black ice, totally alien to your sensibilities. There are no exits in the seamless dark walls, and you wonder what forces have brought you here...

The Dark God Luukos appears before you in a sudden flash of stinking brimstone. Your eyes follow his tall, muscular form up to his lizardlike head, and meeting his cold, slitted eyes you begin to fear for your very soul.

Luukos looks at you with a glint of pleasure in his reptilian eyes. "A fitting offering!", he exclaims, lisping softly as he does so.

You see his long, forked tongue slip out of his mouth and shudder uncontrollably. "You shall be well rewarded, my servant!"
Luukos reaches into your soul and tears it out by the roots, flinging you away from himself when he is finished consuming it.

To your surprise, you find yourself with a tenuous grasp on the universe, and your sole thought as you fall seemingly forever is that of amazement that you still live . . .

Your fall is broken by the hard earth beneath you as you awaken, dazed and bewildered, but alive nonetheless...