Fairly new to this and not playing a Rogue, but rather a picking warrior. I have Disarm 102 and perception 70 with wis bonus of only 6.
Have never been able to detect a scarab. I always Disarm 4X but have still been killed 5 times and injured badly once. Am adding all my Mental points lately to perception but wonder when I'll be able to see one of these things.
TIA
GFORSYTHE
OM1E5GA
Re: What level does Scarab traps start?
06/10/2015 02:26 PM CDT
Your perception is very low for spotting traps. I don't know any hard numbers for spotting them, but if I remember correctly, I wasn't seeing scarabs without fail until around level 20ish. That would have put me at around 60 ranks in perception.... and higher WIS.
By comparison, my level 65 sorcerer that's 1x in Perception rarely spots scarabs manually even with 402 up and only spots them when popping boxes because of 416 most of the time.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
By comparison, my level 65 sorcerer that's 1x in Perception rarely spots scarabs manually even with 402 up and only spots them when popping boxes because of 416 most of the time.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
TROUBLE13
Re: What level does Scarab traps start?
06/10/2015 03:22 PM CDT
It sounds like those are your skill bonuses. You can start finding scarabs as soon as you start finding boxes, I've found them on kobold boxes. For a rogue I was able to spot them with 30 ranks in perception and 30 ranks disarm without any problems. At low levels I'd check boxes 3 times often enough just because I'm paranoid like that. I rarely actually need that third check, but better safe then sorry I guess. If you plan to disarm the scarabs you find you are also going to want 10 ranks of AS.
RATHBONER
Re: What level does Scarab traps start?
06/10/2015 05:06 PM CDT
The training requirement to disarm practically everything like level is 3x disarm, or 2x disarm plus lore. Add 50 ranks perception to that to be reasonably sure of spotting them.
If you are training less disarm, you need correspondingly more perception. If you don't mind the occasionally failure, and you are careful about where you disarm and what critters you hunt, you can get away with rather less.
The relevant stat is Intuition not Wisdom, but its not all that relevant, you can make up with training for tanking INT a lot more readily than you can make up for low training with setting INT high.
While scarabs can be found on kobold boxes, the smallest scarab I've ever seen is about -65. They are more difficult than other trap types tend to be.
Multiple detection is no substitute for appropriate training. Its fine as a way of researching whether you are up to dealing with boxes from that source but it drops the training required for reliable detection by pretty small amounts.
If you are training less disarm, you need correspondingly more perception. If you don't mind the occasionally failure, and you are careful about where you disarm and what critters you hunt, you can get away with rather less.
The relevant stat is Intuition not Wisdom, but its not all that relevant, you can make up with training for tanking INT a lot more readily than you can make up for low training with setting INT high.
While scarabs can be found on kobold boxes, the smallest scarab I've ever seen is about -65. They are more difficult than other trap types tend to be.
Multiple detection is no substitute for appropriate training. Its fine as a way of researching whether you are up to dealing with boxes from that source but it drops the training required for reliable detection by pretty small amounts.
THROGG
Re: What level does Scarab traps start?
06/10/2015 05:54 PM CDT
I'm only 2x in disarm, since my rogue's main focus is combat. Perception however, is dirt cheap for rogues. I keep 2x in this skill, so I can see traps that I can't disarm. I can't even remember the last time I missed seeing a trap from a like leveled critter. It also helps with bandit tasks; rarely are they able to stay hidden on me.
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PENNINGTONB1
Re: What level does Scarab traps start?
06/10/2015 09:11 PM CDT
Scarabs were the only trap my rogue would miss spotting with a fair amount of consistency in the lower level range. As others have said, 2x Perception is the standard, and double check boxes (double checking should cut down on the great majority of your spotting failures). I noticed that this stopped almost entirely around his 30s. For reference, mine was 2x Disarm/Perception with a high WIS and moderate INT.
~Brian, Sepher's player
~Brian, Sepher's player
RATHBONER
Re: What level does Scarab traps start?
06/11/2015 05:50 AM CDT
>I'm only 2x in disarm, since my rogue's main focus is combat. Perception however, is dirt cheap for rogues. I keep 2x in this skill, so I can see traps that I can't disarm. I can't even remember the last time I missed seeing a trap from a like leveled critter.
2x/2x will get you up to speed around level 20, and you'll be increasing the size of your safety margin thereafter. If you are using lore, you should get to the point where you reliably spot the worst trap off a capped critter somewhere around level 65.
2x/2x will get you up to speed around level 20, and you'll be increasing the size of your safety margin thereafter. If you are using lore, you should get to the point where you reliably spot the worst trap off a capped critter somewhere around level 65.
THROGG
Re: What level does Scarab traps start?
06/11/2015 08:11 AM CDT
>> If you are using lore<<
I don't routinely use 404 when scanning for traps, but then I'm not likely to get capped boxes in the Landing. Well, ok, Deadfall is open again so that may no longer be true. But if anyone tells me they have such a box, I'll use 404 then.
While we're on the topic of perception, how about 402? Does this help in spotting things like box traps, bandit traps, hidden foes etc? There seems to be a strong level check when trying to spot invisible wizards using this spell. Does this carry over to other uses?
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I don't routinely use 404 when scanning for traps, but then I'm not likely to get capped boxes in the Landing. Well, ok, Deadfall is open again so that may no longer be true. But if anyone tells me they have such a box, I'll use 404 then.
While we're on the topic of perception, how about 402? Does this help in spotting things like box traps, bandit traps, hidden foes etc? There seems to be a strong level check when trying to spot invisible wizards using this spell. Does this carry over to other uses?
::This space for Rent::
RATHBONER
Re: What level does Scarab traps start?
06/11/2015 09:59 AM CDT
>While we're on the topic of perception, how about 402? Does this help in spotting things like box traps, bandit traps, hidden foes etc? There seems to be a strong level check when trying to spot invisible wizards using this spell. Does this carry over to other uses?
Both 402 and 404 help to spot box traps. The details of how much they are help are not known to players. My working assumption is that the combined bonus of 402 and 404 to spot a trap is at least as large as the bonus from 404 to disarm it. That worked for me back when I was opening cap boxes around level 50, I missed the occasional trap, but only when I reckoned I might. I missed one around level 80 which I reckoned must have been a fumble roll as well as bad light (some clerics require kneecapping on sight) and a top trap, but I hit the point at which I reckon I had the training to spot top traps reliably around level 53 (3x/2x training, its mid to late 40s if 3x/3x) and every other trap I've set off since then has been player error or a fumble roll on a disarm where I knew that a fumble could be painful. And at 3x/3x before I switched from ranged to fu and turned some perception into spells, I didn't have much trouble with missed traps ever. I'm not sure if scarabs were around in 2000/01 or I was lucky or I just forgot, but I don't remember them ever being a problem for me.
Having 402 running has a general benefit to perception based activities, but is not necessarily significant every time (e.g. perception affects foraging, but 402 provided a zero bonus in all the foraging I've tested it on) Its generally believed to affect the ability to spot bandit traps, and while I don't have numbers to prove it, or know where to look up a saved COASE post that details it, I am sufficiently convinced to be among those that obnoxiously scroll the room while stacking 402 before bandit hunts. (getting even further off topic, Anyone ever tried untrammel for the net traps?)
Both 402 and 404 help to spot box traps. The details of how much they are help are not known to players. My working assumption is that the combined bonus of 402 and 404 to spot a trap is at least as large as the bonus from 404 to disarm it. That worked for me back when I was opening cap boxes around level 50, I missed the occasional trap, but only when I reckoned I might. I missed one around level 80 which I reckoned must have been a fumble roll as well as bad light (some clerics require kneecapping on sight) and a top trap, but I hit the point at which I reckon I had the training to spot top traps reliably around level 53 (3x/2x training, its mid to late 40s if 3x/3x) and every other trap I've set off since then has been player error or a fumble roll on a disarm where I knew that a fumble could be painful. And at 3x/3x before I switched from ranged to fu and turned some perception into spells, I didn't have much trouble with missed traps ever. I'm not sure if scarabs were around in 2000/01 or I was lucky or I just forgot, but I don't remember them ever being a problem for me.
Having 402 running has a general benefit to perception based activities, but is not necessarily significant every time (e.g. perception affects foraging, but 402 provided a zero bonus in all the foraging I've tested it on) Its generally believed to affect the ability to spot bandit traps, and while I don't have numbers to prove it, or know where to look up a saved COASE post that details it, I am sufficiently convinced to be among those that obnoxiously scroll the room while stacking 402 before bandit hunts. (getting even further off topic, Anyone ever tried untrammel for the net traps?)
