NIGHTVET
The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/08/2013 09:55 PM CST
Having spent yet another 1.2 million silvers making half a dozen far below average and half a dozen average lock picks trying to make an exceptional one just to TRY the impossibly complex locks from Lich Landing Citadel, I'm at the breaking point of frustration with being a lcoksmith. I find it appalling that LOCKSMITHS are the LAST ones able to open these locks, they can be bashed, waggled or just brought to Larton. I'm down SEVERAL MILLION silvers just trying these locks. Talk about making the PC locksmith a waste of time and effort.
NIGHTVET
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/08/2013 10:15 PM CST
Took the entire next million to get one exceptional pick. That's over 2 million silvers for a lock pick. Yes, you can tell me how I could use store bought - one needs EVERY bit to get these locks. I repeat - it's beyond ridiculous that a locksmith needs to spend millions of silvers to consider trying to unlock boxes that OTHER professions can easily get opened.
RATHBONER
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/09/2013 05:09 AM CST
They are actually about giving a PC locksmith a chance to get a very high record. Some PC locksmiths like to have very high record locks opened, and having invasion critters drop them is the only way it happens.
There ought to be a whole lot more lock ranges "almost impossibly complex", "virtually impossibly complex", "are we nearly impossibly complex yet" etc. but the reason these invasion critters drop big locks is that some PC locksmiths asked for them and the GM responded.
Waggling and Larton are overpowered for normal locks too. Waggling ought to draw an amount of mana that depends on the lock size and Larton ought to take 40s RT per box. 550 mana per cast for impossibly complex would be about right.
There ought to be a whole lot more lock ranges "almost impossibly complex", "virtually impossibly complex", "are we nearly impossibly complex yet" etc. but the reason these invasion critters drop big locks is that some PC locksmiths asked for them and the GM responded.
Waggling and Larton are overpowered for normal locks too. Waggling ought to draw an amount of mana that depends on the lock size and Larton ought to take 40s RT per box. 550 mana per cast for impossibly complex would be about right.
NIGHTVET
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/09/2013 05:37 AM CST
I'm quite aware some locksmiths like being able to get very high record locks. I play one of them, with one of the highest (to my knowledge since there is no actual list available) locks picked. My point is two-fold. 1.) It should not cost millions of silvers to make picks to try locks that require an open roll to unlock. 2.) Locksmiths should BE the goto PLAYERS to get locks unlocked. It should never be EASIER for a waggler/basher/NPC locksmith to open the locks. These locks are tough enough that several capped, tripled locksmiths choose to simply wedge them. I don't mind them being tough. I mind them costing so much to consider trying them.
RATHBONER
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/09/2013 06:30 AM CST
>I don't mind them being tough. I mind them costing so much to consider trying them.
It doesn't seem to me an unreasonable level of expense when going for a record. What is unreasonable is not knowing whether or not you are going for a record when the lock is well under your current record. If you have a 1620 record and a 1550 box, you should be able to tell that the box you are holding isn't the same level of complexity as the one you already opened, before you spend millions on trying picks on it.
>2.) Locksmiths should BE the goto PLAYERS to get locks unlocked. It should never be EASIER for a waggler/basher/NPC locksmith to open the locks.
I am not convinced bashing beats wedging. Wedging wins easily when I have tested it though I haven't tested against this size of lock. Waggling should be more expensive in mana, boxes that are too hard to pick should require too much mana to waggle. NPC picking should operate like repairing. Pay your money, get a ticket, and come back later to collect the open box.
It doesn't seem to me an unreasonable level of expense when going for a record. What is unreasonable is not knowing whether or not you are going for a record when the lock is well under your current record. If you have a 1620 record and a 1550 box, you should be able to tell that the box you are holding isn't the same level of complexity as the one you already opened, before you spend millions on trying picks on it.
>2.) Locksmiths should BE the goto PLAYERS to get locks unlocked. It should never be EASIER for a waggler/basher/NPC locksmith to open the locks.
I am not convinced bashing beats wedging. Wedging wins easily when I have tested it though I haven't tested against this size of lock. Waggling should be more expensive in mana, boxes that are too hard to pick should require too much mana to waggle. NPC picking should operate like repairing. Pay your money, get a ticket, and come back later to collect the open box.
THORNBROOK
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/09/2013 09:29 AM CST
For the OP, as part of your preparation were you using the above average crafted vaalins as well as the alchemy thingy that mods down a lock temporarily? If the alchemy item reduces the size of the lock as seen in your record..I can see why you wouldn't be using it. I too would like to see more lock ranges defined.
Lochiven
NIGHTVET
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/09/2013 05:25 PM CST
Exceptional crafted pick - yes
Alchemy stuff - no. As you suspected, it appears to lower the difficulty of the lock. Also, no supply of it. Last I checked, rogues can't do alchemy. Before the argument of how it can be obtained, what other profession's defining skill requires ANOTHER profession's guild products to maximize?
I've already requested both more increments for measuring as well as actually GETTING A VALUE on a 'read' on the high end. I have gotten the 'read' message a few times with only the impossibly complex descriptor and no lock value.
As far as it being a reasonable cost to get a record - Really? I don't understand that at all. Why should there be an amount of silvers needed to be spent to reach for a record? Hunters do not need to replace their weapons and armor - breakage has been quite well avoided. Why is it ok that locksmiths need to spend MILLIONS of silvers to pick locks? Are we going to start charging to get into hunting grounds to set a new most powerful opponent record?
It would not be so bad if lockpick crafting was made more reasonable. Average attempts don't even yield off the shelf quality picks. Make the cost 125k or even 150k with average attempts yielding off the shelf quality. My issue is not it being difficult. Despite pointing out the discrepancy with hunting gear, I don't even mind needing to pay for picks. I mind it costing millions of silvers for EACH pick when it's likely to break several attempting these locks.
OM1E5GA
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/09/2013 06:07 PM CST
<I mind it costing millions of silvers for EACH pick when it's likely to break several attempting these locks.>
To be fair, each vaalin pick you make is only costing you 100,000 silvers and, unless you're just getting the really short end of teh RNG, it shouldn't be taking you 20+ attempts at making picks to get an above average vaalin pick when there's a 1/3 chance of getting one.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
To be fair, each vaalin pick you make is only costing you 100,000 silvers and, unless you're just getting the really short end of teh RNG, it shouldn't be taking you 20+ attempts at making picks to get an above average vaalin pick when there's a 1/3 chance of getting one.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
NIGHTVET
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/09/2013 07:11 PM CST
I think you are grossly mistaken regarding the odds. It's definitely not 1 in 3. As I stated, the last one took TWENTY TWO attempts.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/12/2013 12:06 PM CST
Took the entire next million to get one exceptional pick. That's over 2 million silvers for a lock pick. Yes, you can tell me how I could use store bought - one needs EVERY bit to get these locks. I repeat - it's beyond ridiculous that a locksmith needs to spend millions of silvers to consider trying to unlock boxes that OTHER professions can easily get opened.
Not sure I agree with your argument that a locksmith NEEDS to spend millions of silvers to consider trying to unlock these boxes. As you have pointed out, they can be wedged. Additionally, a locksmith could also look to add the UNLOCK spell to their arsenal - I'm guessing a locksmith would be more skilled at casting this spell than most as I believe skill in picking locks factors into the success factor for this spell.
-- Robert
Not sure I agree with your argument that a locksmith NEEDS to spend millions of silvers to consider trying to unlock these boxes. As you have pointed out, they can be wedged. Additionally, a locksmith could also look to add the UNLOCK spell to their arsenal - I'm guessing a locksmith would be more skilled at casting this spell than most as I believe skill in picking locks factors into the success factor for this spell.
-- Robert
NIGHTVET
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/12/2013 01:13 PM CST
The point being the ability to pick the locks. Someone FAR below cap can wedge open these locks. The point was trying to make a locksmith's skills be of value, not devalue them further by providing other means to get locks opened.
CRACKER03
Re: The annoying state of being a locksmith.
01/12/2013 02:18 PM CST
>The point being the ability to pick the locks. Someone FAR below cap can wedge open these locks. The point was trying to make a locksmith's skills be of value, not devalue them further by providing other means to get locks opened.
Look on the bright side...the traps still cause the casters and bashers significant issues...assuming the citidel is putting out trapped boxes.
>Additionally, a locksmith could also look to add the UNLOCK spell to their arsenal - I'm guessing a locksmith would be more skilled at casting this spell than most as I believe skill in picking locks factors into the success factor for this spell.
I highly reccomend this. My rogue actually has mustered up to Elemental Barrier and it's worth every training point. The second part of the above statement, while it is backed by the official documentation is something I'd really like a NIR to check the background code on.
It's horribly unscientific, but I've had my capped 3x spell trained 0 lockpicking skill and capped 3x lockpicking 30 ranks of MNE spells rogue take turns casting unlock at more than a few boxes I didn't feel like wasting a wedge or risking a pick at...The sorcerer is almost always the one that pops the box. Of course that may be entirely coincidental, but I'd love to know how much of a 'bonus' we get for mechanical picking skill when casting 407.
>I think you are grossly mistaken regarding the odds. It's definitely not 1 in 3. As I stated, the last one took TWENTY TWO attempts.
I feel your pain here...I don't make picks that often at this point, but they are almost always below average, and it certainly has nothing to do with level, stats, encumberance, or injuries, because all are optimal whenever I attempt to create a lockpick. Maybe I'm also just that unlucky.
--Kammaris
Look on the bright side...the traps still cause the casters and bashers significant issues...assuming the citidel is putting out trapped boxes.
>Additionally, a locksmith could also look to add the UNLOCK spell to their arsenal - I'm guessing a locksmith would be more skilled at casting this spell than most as I believe skill in picking locks factors into the success factor for this spell.
I highly reccomend this. My rogue actually has mustered up to Elemental Barrier and it's worth every training point. The second part of the above statement, while it is backed by the official documentation is something I'd really like a NIR to check the background code on.
It's horribly unscientific, but I've had my capped 3x spell trained 0 lockpicking skill and capped 3x lockpicking 30 ranks of MNE spells rogue take turns casting unlock at more than a few boxes I didn't feel like wasting a wedge or risking a pick at...The sorcerer is almost always the one that pops the box. Of course that may be entirely coincidental, but I'd love to know how much of a 'bonus' we get for mechanical picking skill when casting 407.
>I think you are grossly mistaken regarding the odds. It's definitely not 1 in 3. As I stated, the last one took TWENTY TWO attempts.
I feel your pain here...I don't make picks that often at this point, but they are almost always below average, and it certainly has nothing to do with level, stats, encumberance, or injuries, because all are optimal whenever I attempt to create a lockpick. Maybe I'm also just that unlucky.
--Kammaris
