So, locksmithing in general isn't used by players as much as it could be because of various legacy systems that are in place and likely won't be or shouldn't be changed. So, moving things away from the NPC Locksmith thread, here's my list of suggestions:
1) NPC Locksmith provides Adventurer's Guild style tasks for a player to assist him in his workload and pick X number of boxes from creatures within a 5 level margin unless harder/easier tasks are requested. Picker is taken to an instanced room with X number of auto-generated boxes from that level range that container no treasure but provide picking XP. Once a box is picked, it's placed in a specific container that checks on disarm/picked status and counts it towards the player's tally. Upon completion, the NPC Locksmith pays out an appropriate fee and XP bonus for completion.
2) Use the Box Generator from Silverwood Manor to provide the same automated service, one box at a time, scaled based on the player's skills. Set a cooldown timer of 15 minutes after X number of boxes are generated for that player. Place this machine in the local rogue's guilds or in a backroom in the NPC Locksmith shops.
3) Allow LM Masters to continue to challenge the Master Trainers to picking contests with live traps. Provide XP for each box picked and an additional bonus for successfully beating the trainer. Offer a prestige point incentive similar to the Sunfist prestige system for most victories.
The L behind the Laphrael
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a shoe.
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Laphrael
BOULEW
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
10/31/2011 08:00 PM CDT
3) Allow LM Masters to continue to challenge the Master Trainers to picking contests with live traps. Provide XP for each box picked and an additional bonus for successfully beating the trainer. Offer a prestige point incentive similar to the Sunfist prestige system for most virtctories.
It would be more work but I would love to see this where both opponents are players vs. challenging the Master Trainers. Still with live traps though.
-- Robert
It would be more work but I would love to see this where both opponents are players vs. challenging the Master Trainers. Still with live traps though.
-- Robert
BOULEW
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
10/31/2011 09:17 PM CDT
I'd also be down with that. I'd love to see the Mentors run their player competition again sometime in the near future.
The L behind the Laphrael
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a shoe.
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Laphrael
The L behind the Laphrael
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a shoe.
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Laphrael
GS4-FINROS
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
11/03/2011 02:21 AM CDT
I sympathize with your desire to gain more utility from a significant training point investment, but what you describe is unlikely to be implemented. Any major experience gain must be accompanied by some amount of risk, and a skilled locksmith faces very little risk in lockpicking. The current system requires the box provider (whomever that might be) to face the larger risk initially, with a smaller amount of risk for actually opening the box. An automatic box generation system would remove the first component, and the second alone does not include enough risk to make it acceptable as a main experience system.
RATHBONER
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
11/03/2011 03:32 AM CDT
If a smith is trying to maximise experience from boxes they will break picks. Picks that cost a lot of silvers. Its only the low end experience that comes risk free. You can hunt critters for 10 exp each pretty much risk free, or you can take significant risk and try for 150 exp each. Its the same with locks.
I don't see a system generating new boxes, but I don't see why one shouldn't siphon off boxes from the NPC. The NPC provides such a high level of service that I don't think boxes will go to players unless there is a game system to redirect them. As long as boxes are in short enough supply that the experience per box is relevant, the smith has to take risks.
Finros, what is the justification for having the smith NPC so overpowered? Other service NPCs provide at a level equivalent to a minimally competent PC, but the smith provides at the level of 1 use per day auction items.
I don't see a system generating new boxes, but I don't see why one shouldn't siphon off boxes from the NPC. The NPC provides such a high level of service that I don't think boxes will go to players unless there is a game system to redirect them. As long as boxes are in short enough supply that the experience per box is relevant, the smith has to take risks.
Finros, what is the justification for having the smith NPC so overpowered? Other service NPCs provide at a level equivalent to a minimally competent PC, but the smith provides at the level of 1 use per day auction items.
BOULEW
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
11/03/2011 07:00 AM CDT
>>Any major experience gain must be accompanied by some amount of risk, and a skilled locksmith faces very little risk in lockpicking.
The same could be said of any profession who has significantly trained their characters, spelled up, or obtained high-end defensive items. Yet the level-based, not skill-based, method of awarding hunting experience (and treasure) assumes any character of level X has the same level of risk as the next character of level X, and this is certainly not the case by any means.
If not any of these ideas, then what? It is a significant training point investment, but the player base is simply not large enough to support locksmithing as a valid means of gaining experience due to the other various risk-free methods of bypassing all of the time and risk involved. Measures have been taken to account for reduced player population - audience requirements, and now the guild master nomination requirements - so what can we do to make PC locksmithing useful again without inconveniencing the majority of other players to the point of bitterness?
With appropriate skills, a locksmith can handle any trap by 260 ranks of Disarm Traps, making the last 43 ranks a fairly large buffer zone to simply make the job easier. Maybe it's time to look into re-scaling trap difficulty to the point where 303 ranks is required for the most difficult traps, and then you have not only a much grander scale of health risk involved in picking, but also a massive time investment for every failed attempt, in addition to the standard silver risk involved every time you test your 125k silver lockpick.
The L behind the Laphrael
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a shoe.
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Laphrael
The same could be said of any profession who has significantly trained their characters, spelled up, or obtained high-end defensive items. Yet the level-based, not skill-based, method of awarding hunting experience (and treasure) assumes any character of level X has the same level of risk as the next character of level X, and this is certainly not the case by any means.
If not any of these ideas, then what? It is a significant training point investment, but the player base is simply not large enough to support locksmithing as a valid means of gaining experience due to the other various risk-free methods of bypassing all of the time and risk involved. Measures have been taken to account for reduced player population - audience requirements, and now the guild master nomination requirements - so what can we do to make PC locksmithing useful again without inconveniencing the majority of other players to the point of bitterness?
With appropriate skills, a locksmith can handle any trap by 260 ranks of Disarm Traps, making the last 43 ranks a fairly large buffer zone to simply make the job easier. Maybe it's time to look into re-scaling trap difficulty to the point where 303 ranks is required for the most difficult traps, and then you have not only a much grander scale of health risk involved in picking, but also a massive time investment for every failed attempt, in addition to the standard silver risk involved every time you test your 125k silver lockpick.
The L behind the Laphrael
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a shoe.
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Laphrael
GS4-FINROS
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
11/04/2011 02:38 AM CDT
>Finros, what is the justification for having the smith NPC so overpowered? Other service NPCs provide at a level equivalent to a minimally competent PC, but the smith provides at the level of 1 use per day auction items.
I don't know why it was designed that way originally. But having been in place for so many years, the relevant question is now "why change it?" rather than "why maintain it that way?" Nobody thinks that the current version is ideal, but there are a thousand other systems to work on as well, and there are only so many that any of us can focus on at once.
>If not any of these ideas, then what? It is a significant training point investment, but the player base is simply not large enough to support locksmithing as a valid means of gaining experience due to the other various risk-free methods of bypassing all of the time and risk involved. Measures have been taken to account for reduced player population - audience requirements, and now the guild master nomination requirements - so what can we do to make PC locksmithing useful again without inconveniencing the majority of other players to the point of bitterness?
I agree with what you say here, but I have no viable solutions to offer in the short term. The problem requires a much larger investment of time and resources than I currently have available. I agree that it's a problem, it's one that I'd like to address, but I'm not going to pretend that I can do anything about it in the near future. Any comprehensive solution has to involve the treasure system, the NPC, the lockpicking and disarming skills themselves, bashing, magical means of opening a box, lock mastery, and many others areas.
I don't know why it was designed that way originally. But having been in place for so many years, the relevant question is now "why change it?" rather than "why maintain it that way?" Nobody thinks that the current version is ideal, but there are a thousand other systems to work on as well, and there are only so many that any of us can focus on at once.
>If not any of these ideas, then what? It is a significant training point investment, but the player base is simply not large enough to support locksmithing as a valid means of gaining experience due to the other various risk-free methods of bypassing all of the time and risk involved. Measures have been taken to account for reduced player population - audience requirements, and now the guild master nomination requirements - so what can we do to make PC locksmithing useful again without inconveniencing the majority of other players to the point of bitterness?
I agree with what you say here, but I have no viable solutions to offer in the short term. The problem requires a much larger investment of time and resources than I currently have available. I agree that it's a problem, it's one that I'd like to address, but I'm not going to pretend that I can do anything about it in the near future. Any comprehensive solution has to involve the treasure system, the NPC, the lockpicking and disarming skills themselves, bashing, magical means of opening a box, lock mastery, and many others areas.
TROUBLE13
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
11/05/2011 02:12 PM CDT
The population currently isn't much smaller then when I had first started and maybe now I should make more of an effort to find a PC locksmith instead of the NPC. But for a while there weren't to many locksmiths around who could open my boxes. And while population is part of the problem another part is that more and more people who choose to be rogues are encouraged to go the full combat route with no picking skills. Others have also made the switch from picking to combat because it made them a lot better hunters and didn't find picking locks to be that rewarding.
SHAFTJ
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
11/05/2011 02:24 PM CDT
Somebody else suggested it before and I seconded it: I like the idea of moving the NPC locksmiths to either the town picking spot or somewhere close to it. Put Larton upstairs in the tower, make a locksmithing cart and put the Icemule smith there instead of a backroom in the general store, etc etc. That way, people who need something opened will end up in the same place and people who want to unlock something, if they're both looking at the same time.
-Keleborrn.
-Keleborrn.
TROPHYGAME
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
11/05/2011 06:11 PM CDT
I'll third Kel's voice on this one.
And to you Laph, I'll look into the lockpicking contests again and see what I can drum up along with some other mentors. If there is enough interest I am sure we can easily do another event
~Jukes
www.tehir.net
AIM: Tehir Xunlari
And to you Laph, I'll look into the lockpicking contests again and see what I can drum up along with some other mentors. If there is enough interest I am sure we can easily do another event
~Jukes
www.tehir.net
AIM: Tehir Xunlari
KEITHOBAD
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
12/25/2014 01:21 AM CST
I would like to add my support to moving Larton to the top of east tower. At least then you have to script passed the bored smiths. Sigh.
It's partly a treasure system problem, I agree. The over generation of heavy but ultimately mostly worthless boxes makes spending time on them an unrewarding affair.
I actually bothered someone today to open a box containing 435 silvers and nothing else.
I would love LOVE some attention paid to that system. Lowering the number of time-wasting boxes so that it's actually a cause for joy when you find one. And fill them with a bounty of gems and stuff valuing 10-100k.
THROGG
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
12/25/2014 10:56 AM CST
>>I would like to add my support to moving Larton to the top of east tower<<
Or, perhaps a Vathor could eat him during the last phases of the current storyline. I personally wouldn't care if he vanished, but I suspect some folks would complain, so it's not likely to happen.
"For the female of the species
is more deadly than the male."
Or, perhaps a Vathor could eat him during the last phases of the current storyline. I personally wouldn't care if he vanished, but I suspect some folks would complain, so it's not likely to happen.
"For the female of the species
is more deadly than the male."
KEITHOBAD
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
12/26/2014 03:58 AM CST
If I thought that could happen, I would MUCH prefer that.
RATHBONER
Re: Uses for Locksmithing
12/31/2014 12:33 PM CST
>I would like to add my support to moving Larton to the top of east tower.
Move him inside the guild, he's almost in it as it is. Then people would have to either get a rogue to open their boxes, or get a rogue to get Larton to open their boxes.
Move him inside the guild, he's almost in it as it is. Then people would have to either get a rogue to open their boxes, or get a rogue to get Larton to open their boxes.
