I find that I run myself out of mana quite often using bone shatter at lower levels (only 11 trains right now). To this point I have used wands or hunted around nodes to get by. For various reasons, including RP, I do not want to be a weapon-swinger. The compromise I envision is to take up brawling and do some Voln Fu when mana runs low, or use spells to soften targets up/get control and then use the Fu.
Question 1: if I've got a rune staff in my right and nothing in my left hand, when a critter swings at me, do I get any defensive strength from brawling via the open left hand? Does the runestaff DS just supersede that?
Question 2: as an empath we can only single train in brawling, but we also get spells to help control our prey and potentially boost UAF. Can anyone confirm whether things like Bravery (211), Heroism (215), and Intensity (1130) improve UAF?
Question 3: what I am imagining is throwing down an Unbalance or Web Bolt or maybe even just Bone Shatter to pin/stun a critter; stow the runestaff; and start going bananas. Is this a totally stupid idea? I understand going pure caster is probably a more simple and efficient method of hunting but just indulge me for a second. Can this work? Can anyone that has tried this offer any pointers?
LOSERDOM
JAKKAL
Re: Empath as Brawler?
01/31/2013 03:13 PM CST
Voln Fu doesn't really exist anymore. There is only the Unarmed combat system or swinging a brawling weapon around.
1) Runestaff would superceed your brawling skill for defence if you held one, you'd get nothing from brawling until you stowed the staff. You could still punch and kick but with it out, but it was entirely ineffective when I tried doing it as a wizard. Once I lost the runestaff my defence took a bit of a hit, but was still high enough to avoid most attacks so I didn't bother with stowing a staff. You may have a different experience since you can't use 102 with brawl and that's a large part of an empath's defence.
2) Bravery (211), Heroism (215), Empathic focus (1109) and Intensity (1130) should all raise UAF. Empath's should have the highest UAF of all the pures.
3) If you're training in spell aim and summon lore for web bolt, you won't have the points for brawling and combat manuevers. Might as well just stay a pure with all those magical skills. Bone shatter till you get a stun or knockdown and then finish off with kicks might be more viable.
If you just don't want to swing a weapon around, you may want to consider archery.
---Mirrami, crossbow empath
1) Runestaff would superceed your brawling skill for defence if you held one, you'd get nothing from brawling until you stowed the staff. You could still punch and kick but with it out, but it was entirely ineffective when I tried doing it as a wizard. Once I lost the runestaff my defence took a bit of a hit, but was still high enough to avoid most attacks so I didn't bother with stowing a staff. You may have a different experience since you can't use 102 with brawl and that's a large part of an empath's defence.
2) Bravery (211), Heroism (215), Empathic focus (1109) and Intensity (1130) should all raise UAF. Empath's should have the highest UAF of all the pures.
3) If you're training in spell aim and summon lore for web bolt, you won't have the points for brawling and combat manuevers. Might as well just stay a pure with all those magical skills. Bone shatter till you get a stun or knockdown and then finish off with kicks might be more viable.
If you just don't want to swing a weapon around, you may want to consider archery.
---Mirrami, crossbow empath
THROGG
Re: Empath as Brawler?
01/31/2013 06:29 PM CST
>>I find that I run myself out of mana quite often using bone shatter at lower levels (only 11 trains right now). To this point I have used wands or hunted around nodes to get by. For various reasons, including RP, I do not want to be a weapon-swinger. The compromise I envision is to take up brawling and do some Voln Fu when mana runs low, or use spells to soften targets up/get control and then use the Fu.<<
You will be seriously frustrated, I suspect. The UAC is generally not designed for fast kills. My experience with this is limited, but when I used my 2x brawling trained rogue to test it out, her best results were obtained attacking from hiding (i.e. ambushing). Her results from the open were fairly feeble.
You might try asking in the UAC folder; opinions may vary as to your viability.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
You will be seriously frustrated, I suspect. The UAC is generally not designed for fast kills. My experience with this is limited, but when I used my 2x brawling trained rogue to test it out, her best results were obtained attacking from hiding (i.e. ambushing). Her results from the open were fairly feeble.
You might try asking in the UAC folder; opinions may vary as to your viability.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
THROGG
Re: Empath as Brawler?
01/31/2013 06:33 PM CST
>>Question 3: what I am imagining is throwing down an Unbalance or Web Bolt or maybe even just Bone Shatter to pin/stun a critter; stow the runestaff; and start going bananas. Is this a totally stupid idea? I understand going pure caster is probably a more simple and efficient method of hunting but just indulge me for a second. Can this work? Can anyone that has tried this offer any pointers?<<
I have no idea how much such disabling spells will reduce a critter's defence vs UAC. What you might to is find someone who is alredy trained in brawling, and take him/her along with you on a hunt. Have your friend attack the critter, then cast a disabling spell and see what the effect is when they attack again.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
I have no idea how much such disabling spells will reduce a critter's defence vs UAC. What you might to is find someone who is alredy trained in brawling, and take him/her along with you on a hunt. Have your friend attack the critter, then cast a disabling spell and see what the effect is when they attack again.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
THROGG
Re: Empath as Brawler?
01/31/2013 07:33 PM CST
Hmm, just thinking again; all the spell perks might offset the bad parts. Empaths make the best weapon users of all the pures as far as AS goes (hasted warmages are in another category altogether; AS is almost irrelevant when you can attack 1x per second), so that may also apply to UAC. Your UAC combat will suffer a bit from wearing armor, you will want to get enchanted hand and foortwraps to help offset this.
We get a fixskills in May; I assume you have one saved up now, which is why you are inquiring. You might want to try the brawling thing using fixskills now; if the results suck, you can always go back in May. You probably won't need CMans, since you can use spells to disable a foe.
Since the UAC is fairly new, you may well be the first brawling/UAC empath ever. You can write a training manual if it works!
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
We get a fixskills in May; I assume you have one saved up now, which is why you are inquiring. You might want to try the brawling thing using fixskills now; if the results suck, you can always go back in May. You probably won't need CMans, since you can use spells to disable a foe.
Since the UAC is fairly new, you may well be the first brawling/UAC empath ever. You can write a training manual if it works!
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
DVDMORSE
Re: Empath as Brawler?
02/05/2013 02:19 AM CST
I had a Voln Fu empath who hunted that way up to about level 53. Then the changes to unarmed combat came in. I tried to keep him as a brawler, but it just did not work. He now swings a morningstar. My advice is don't do it.
--David, still not happy that a character he had played since GSIII was forced to change his hunting style
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
--David, still not happy that a character he had played since GSIII was forced to change his hunting style
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
HEATHERHAZE
Re: Empath as Brawler?
02/06/2013 01:45 AM CST
<<<David, still not happy that a character he had played since GSIII was forced to change his hunting style>>>
I had a similar disappointment with my Voln-fu sorcerer. UAC totally nerfed her brawling ability, and I had to use a fixskills to retrain her. It was heartbreaking, but at least it freed up a lot of TPs for more magic skills. She's a better sorceress, now, but I still miss her fighting skill. Unfortunately, singling in brawling is just not enough. While I think an empath would fare better than my sorcerer, I still doubt it would be a satisfying experience.
~ Heathyr and friends
I had a similar disappointment with my Voln-fu sorcerer. UAC totally nerfed her brawling ability, and I had to use a fixskills to retrain her. It was heartbreaking, but at least it freed up a lot of TPs for more magic skills. She's a better sorceress, now, but I still miss her fighting skill. Unfortunately, singling in brawling is just not enough. While I think an empath would fare better than my sorcerer, I still doubt it would be a satisfying experience.
~ Heathyr and friends
