All of the elementals in the Confluence except the earth guys. Probably more obscure ones floating (lol) around, too, but those are le only ones I know off the top of my head.

-james, bristenn's player

---

You think to yourself, "FFF-"

A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!

You evade the bolt by a hair!

Non-crittable creatures are not non-corporeal so to speak. The elementals dissolve into gems, so I don't consider them non-corporeal. I think by definition, only undead can be non-corporeal, but...I suppose there are critters that are similar.

I believe fire sprites are non-corporeal, living, arrows sail through them and they cannot be eye crit.

Non-corporeal and undead are completely separate.

For what it's worth, Fire Guardians (in Solhaven) are also non-corporeal and not undead.

>What's the specific trait that you're interested in? Merely flavor and naming convention, or are you asking about some specific system mechanic?

mainly being able to classify them clearly. The non-corporeal page referred to living non-corp, but when it came to the list, it had zero living on it, and even the "what links here" page has zero creatures at all linked to it.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a GM going in and fact checking the article.

https://gswiki.play.net/Non-corporeal

"Many of these creatures will evaporate quickly after death, much faster than the usual natural creature decay."

Do they all (instead of many) evaporate quickly?

"Usually, they cannot be killed by a critical injury, they do not take wounds from damage"

Are they all immune to critical kill shots (instead of usually)?

>"Usually, they cannot be killed by a critical injury, they do not take wounds from damage"

To the best of my knowledge, the noncorp crit table explicitly prevents critical wounds and fatal critical effects. I assumed the "usually" here means "under normal circumstances", i.e. without being made corporeal by Kai's Smite or Phase. The sentence could use clarification either way.

>Those are both in the article

Yes I quoted the article and asked for more definitive statements

>Do they all (instead of many) evaporate quickly?

Wraiths (which are skinnable) don't evaporate.

I would interpret "non-corporeal" as creatures that use the non-corp critical table.

>mainly being able to classify them clearly.

A general classification may be difficult. The term "non-corporeal" is usually used in a descriptive sense rather than in a narrow technical sense, especially in our documentation. We have a narrow technical sense in the actual code, but there's no guarantee that any individual mention of "non-corporeal-ness" adheres to that technical definition.

That said, the technical version of "non-corporeal" is that the creature has no body parts that are corporeal and has several body parts which are specifically marked as non-corporeal. A creature that has no body parts at all (as per certain elementals) is not considered non-corporeal. The major difference between being non-corporeal and having no body parts (for standard combat purposes) is that the former can be affected by abilities and spells like SMITE and 704, while the latter cannot. There is also special messaging for non-corporeal undead but not for non-corporeal living or no-body-part creatures. Neither non-corporeal nor no-body-part creatures can be wounded (or crit-killed, which is based on wounding). And for completeness, certain corporeal creatures cannot be crit-killed, but may be wounded.

>Do they all (instead of many) evaporate quickly?

Evaporating quickly isn't part-and-parcel of non-corporealness. I'd guess that at least 90% do evaporate quickly, but I can think of a few that don't. It is a per-creature setting.

>Are they all immune to critical kill shots (instead of usually)?

This is part-and-parcel of non-corporealness, yes. Note that this refers to standard melee, ranged, bolt, unarmed, and maneuver combat -- spells and unique damage systems may have their own rules.

I love reading explanations like this, thank you.

- Overlord EK

>You now regard Eorgina with a warm demeanor.

What the page now says about looting is technically inaccurate, but I've dealt with it by adding an extra section about creature timers to the roundtime page rather than the non-corp page.

>I have a feeling the list is extremely limited, can you provide the list of current non-corp living creatures?

None that I know of. The system supports it, but I don't think we've ever made any. (I suppose you could make an argument for Voln members under the effects of Symbol of Transcendence being living non-corporeal creatures, of course).

>Also, what are firephantoms? They are classified as having an elemental body type (on play.net chart), but were also put on the non-corporeal undead list.

They're non-corporeal. If you attack them and get flavor messaging, they're non-corporeal. If you just get damage, they're bodiless (or living non-corporeal, if we ever make such a thing).

>What CMANs work against non-corporeals? I have found that feint works, but are there any others? Want the info instead of having to test them all please.

I can't think of any other non-contact disabler besides feint, though things like mobility and the passive bonuses all work. If you require contact, it has to be physical. (e.g. disarm will work if it has a physical weapon)

Magic may or may not work (manoever spells often work, but I don't know whether the magic CMans do or not)

https://gswiki.play.net/Non-corporeal

https://gswiki.play.net/Creature_action_timer

I've revised the roundtime portion to include the creature action timer, and created a new page for the CAT. One thing that Rathboner wrote in his CAT description that I need more clarification on and would like to put examples on the page, is his statement that "Roundtime from different actions does not stack on creatures, but roundtime does stack on action time."

So Pain + Pain would stack, but Pain + Disarm would not? Which RT would prevail?

I also request GM verification of both pages.

Thank you

>So Pain + Pain would stack, but Pain + Disarm would not? Which RT would prevail?

Normally RT inducing actions can't be repeated, a critter without a weapon can't be disarmed, a prone critter can't be swept etc. Those that can are special cases and may have special rules to prevent abuse. Feint does have a special rule, I don't know whether Pain does or whether its still abusable in the way feint used to be.

>I disagree with this. Pain does (seem) to stack. In my 2 or so years of animating defenders, I did it by stacking pain on them. One pain was hardly enough to get the gem, spread it, cast 730, because I did it manually. I needed at least two casts on.

Sounds like some sort of bug in Pain to me or something in your tactics that was allowing a timer to tick while you were bleeding them down with some other spell if you only used Pain as a finisher.

If you waited till they acted and then threw Pain to finish them, it shouldn't have mattered whether it was one or multiple successive casts, you should have ended up with in the region of 10-15s to do your business before they faded (of which the first 3s would be your cast RT). Which should be enough, but without having a couple of macros to hit to do the business for you might not be much to spare.

e.g. 705*n doing enough damage to drop it to within one Pain's worth, wait to be charged (or swung at or the defender run to the next room etc.), Pain, animation business should work exactly as well as 705 until 2 Pain's worth of hits left, wait to be charged, Pain, Pain, animate. If you aren't waiting for the critter to act, then your different tactics might be tending to leave it with different amounts of time on its action timer before you stalled it with Pain and hence consequences for how easy it was to do your business before it faded.

Rather than vandalizing a page, you could simply share an old official post, or wait like the rest of us.

>However, while I cant speak for Pain I was always under the impression Cmans functioned similar to what Rathboner is saying either replacing a shorter RT or not applying one at all. For example, Warcry bellow (20 RT) followed by Wtrick feint (8 RT) does not add 28 seconds to the creature timer.

Yes, but who said we were only talking about CMANs?

>My guess would be the people only talking about CMANs

if he's only talking about CMANs then he should have indicated that in the article, but he didn't, and further posted here that the spells were not working properly. He wrote a sweeping statement that RT cannot be stacked on creatures and got upset when I questioned it and asked about specific examples. This is why I am asking for staff confirmation, or some post from way back. Summarized since the posts were removed by Mr. Mod when we were finally getting somewhere :)