Last night, my warrior knocked the arm off of a bandit, which then managed to hide. We were stuck in a standoff: he refused to come out of hiding because there was nothing he could do without a right arm, and my 1x perception couldn't find him. Then my buddy who converted from warrior to paladin happened to walk in, cast Judgment, and solved that problem.
Pures and semis all get spells that pull their targets from hiding in the course of their training. As for monks, I'm not sure if Vertigo helps, but either way, Squares are left hanging.
Rogues in particular should have the easiest time combating hiders, but they're stuck spending 3 seconds of hard RT just to search them out, while casters can reveal creatures from hiding and attack them in 3 seconds of soft RT.
I'm not sure the best way to handle this. A quick fix would be to let open War Cries pull creatures from hiding, have Shadow Mastery reduce SEARCH RT the same way it reduces SNEAK RT (At max rank, -2 RT when active and -1 RT when not active). Ideally, though, there would be an attack for Rogues that pulls creatures from hiding without an opposed perception check and inflicts damage, a status, or both.
(And if Vertigo doesn't pull creatures from hiding, it should.)
PFLATS
ARMSTRONGR1
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
07/09/2016 02:28 PM CDT
Although not a fix for all, my warrior is in Voln. Symbol of sleep pulls those bandits right out of hiding and has them snoring.
It is favor costly but a great tool for those sneaks.
Goldstr
DRUNKTANK
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/18/2016 04:35 AM CDT
Perception helps with standard maneuver rolls. As a warrior I consider this pretty critical, so I've always singled in it. I haven't often had trouble finding hiding bandits. Maybe up your perception?
Not that I'm against war cries pulling things out of hiding. That would make life easier in some regards (which I am all for), but the means to search out those bastiches already exists.
As far as rogues are concerned, I imagine most of them have the perception required. If not, well.. I'm not sure what to say since it is so damned cheap for them.
Glurph
>wtrick tslice
You try to stuff your razern morning star in your ear.
Not that I'm against war cries pulling things out of hiding. That would make life easier in some regards (which I am all for), but the means to search out those bastiches already exists.
As far as rogues are concerned, I imagine most of them have the perception required. If not, well.. I'm not sure what to say since it is so damned cheap for them.
Glurph
>wtrick tslice
You try to stuff your razern morning star in your ear.
PFLATS
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/18/2016 01:58 PM CDT
>As a warrior I consider this pretty critical, so I've always singled in it. I haven't often had trouble finding hiding bandits.
>my 1x perception couldn't find him
At 1x perception, I don't think I've found a hiding bandit since at least level 75 sometime last year. If memory serves, 2x perception rogues don't find bandits every time.
The main point of the post, though, is that every class besides a warrior and a rogue can use spells to pull creatures out of hiding based on a CS roll, not a perception one AND can do it without receiving hard roundtime AND never receive more than 3 RT at at time AND disable and/or attack them in the process.
Rogues should be one of the best classes at fighting hiders. They are not.
>my 1x perception couldn't find him
At 1x perception, I don't think I've found a hiding bandit since at least level 75 sometime last year. If memory serves, 2x perception rogues don't find bandits every time.
The main point of the post, though, is that every class besides a warrior and a rogue can use spells to pull creatures out of hiding based on a CS roll, not a perception one AND can do it without receiving hard roundtime AND never receive more than 3 RT at at time AND disable and/or attack them in the process.
Rogues should be one of the best classes at fighting hiders. They are not.
ROBLAR
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/18/2016 02:11 PM CDT
Common imbeds with 410 would work, and probably other spells types.
A rogue "can" eventually be the best at fighting hiders (without spells) as they can potentially 3x perception! Doing so without hard rt is the area of cast/soft rt and doubtful that an alternate ability would happen with that type of rt.
2x perception is hit or miss but eventually finds them, sometimes right way. Can also always enhance past that trained level.
But sure other ways sound cool and would be interested. Other ideas other then spells and that skill?
A rogue "can" eventually be the best at fighting hiders (without spells) as they can potentially 3x perception! Doing so without hard rt is the area of cast/soft rt and doubtful that an alternate ability would happen with that type of rt.
2x perception is hit or miss but eventually finds them, sometimes right way. Can also always enhance past that trained level.
But sure other ways sound cool and would be interested. Other ideas other then spells and that skill?
GS4-IXIX
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/30/2016 08:12 PM CDT
Two updates just went out:
The first one will give bandits (and any other critters that hide) a penalty to staying hidden when they're injured, using the same formula that players get. That wouldn't have helped much in this case since it was the arm, but at least you know it's more fair now ;)
The second one is that open uses of Carn's Cry will knock bandit's out of hiding if you hit them, like this:
>warcry cry all
You let loose an eerie, modulating cry!
A bandit is forced from hiding!
A bandit looks at you in utter terror!
The bandit convulses with terrified shivers!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
For rogues - perception is arguably as cheap as it could possibly be, and 410 is much easier to access either by learning it or through magic items, so there's no rogue specific update (though MTPs are probably in slightly shorter supply for any given rogue, hence the arguably...).
For monks - nothing really jumped out as an obvious answer, or an obvious deficiency - but now is probably a good time to bring it up if you have any strong feelings one way or the other.
Ixix
The first one will give bandits (and any other critters that hide) a penalty to staying hidden when they're injured, using the same formula that players get. That wouldn't have helped much in this case since it was the arm, but at least you know it's more fair now ;)
The second one is that open uses of Carn's Cry will knock bandit's out of hiding if you hit them, like this:
>warcry cry all
You let loose an eerie, modulating cry!
A bandit is forced from hiding!
A bandit looks at you in utter terror!
The bandit convulses with terrified shivers!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
For rogues - perception is arguably as cheap as it could possibly be, and 410 is much easier to access either by learning it or through magic items, so there's no rogue specific update (though MTPs are probably in slightly shorter supply for any given rogue, hence the arguably...).
For monks - nothing really jumped out as an obvious answer, or an obvious deficiency - but now is probably a good time to bring it up if you have any strong feelings one way or the other.
Ixix
HAZADO22
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/30/2016 08:17 PM CDT
Monks - CMAN review please!
Could we maybe get some armor specializations?
dual punching and jabbing?
MSTRIKE RT review?
Hazado
Could we maybe get some armor specializations?
dual punching and jabbing?
MSTRIKE RT review?
Hazado
ROBLAR
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/30/2016 08:30 PM CDT
<The second one is that open uses of Carn's Cry will knock bandit's out of hiding>
Thanks!
Thanks!
GS4-IXIX
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/30/2016 08:38 PM CDT
<<Monks - CMAN review please!
Could we maybe get some armor specializations?
dual punching and jabbing?
MSTRIKE RT review?>>
I meant in regards to hidden critters!
Though if you have other things to bring up I'd invite you to post in the Monk category.
Ixix
Could we maybe get some armor specializations?
dual punching and jabbing?
MSTRIKE RT review?>>
I meant in regards to hidden critters!
Though if you have other things to bring up I'd invite you to post in the Monk category.
Ixix
PFLATS
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/31/2016 12:56 AM CDT
Whoa, thanks! That's great.
COLEMANJ
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/31/2016 05:22 AM CDT
I'm not sure how many are aware of this, but an open cast 1203 will reveal creatures from hiding, assuming you don't reach the maximum number of targets.
MMC
Ranks Additional Targets Total Targets
13 1 2
35 2 3
110 3 4
200 4 5
Obviously, not as effective as 410, but useful just the same based on your MMC
DAID
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/31/2016 06:46 AM CDT
>The first one will give bandits (and any other critters that hide) a penalty to staying hidden when they're injured, using the same formula that players get. That wouldn't have helped much in this case since it was the arm, but at least you know it's more fair now ;)
Woah now...giving creatures the same penalties as players. That's crazy talk!
But seriously, nice updates.
Woah now...giving creatures the same penalties as players. That's crazy talk!
But seriously, nice updates.
RATHBONER
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/31/2016 08:22 AM CDT
>I'm not sure how many are aware of this, but an open cast 1203 will reveal creatures from hiding, assuming you don't reach the maximum number of targets.
Can you cast it with no MMC and no target visible and it reveal 1 hidden bandit or do you have to have a visible target and hence at least the MMC for 1 extra to knock something out of hiding?
Can you cast it with no MMC and no target visible and it reveal 1 hidden bandit or do you have to have a visible target and hence at least the MMC for 1 extra to knock something out of hiding?
KRAKII
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/31/2016 10:12 AM CDT
Don't use tabs/spaces on the Boards; they wipe out whitespace.
use the special 'table' and 'slash-table' commands, in square brackets.
Fixed that up for you.
use the special 'table' and 'slash-table' commands, in square brackets.
| Mana | Control: | Mental |
| Ranks | Add'l. Targets | Total Targets |
| | | |
| 13 | 1 | 2 |
| 35 | 2 | 3 |
| 110 | 3 | 4 |
| 200 | 4 | 5 |
Fixed that up for you.
ROBLAR
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/31/2016 10:26 AM CDT
<or do you have to have a visible target>
Or maybe it can be set to Incant Open so no target is needed (I did this with 410/435/412)?
Or maybe it can be set to Incant Open so no target is needed (I did this with 410/435/412)?
COLEMANJ
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
08/31/2016 11:19 PM CDT
That's beyond my knowledge spectrum. I don't know how to do those funny things
KITHUS
Re: Warriors, Rogues, and Pulling Creatures from Hiding
09/01/2016 08:00 AM CDT
Next time you want to table something IM me and I'll show you how.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Keith is correct
Wyrom, APM
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Help%20for%20Players/Policy%20Discussions/view/246
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Keith is correct
Wyrom, APM
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Help%20for%20Players/Policy%20Discussions/view/246
