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My favorite thing about the enhancive system upon my return to GS 5 years ago is the way it leveled the playing field between established players with all sorts of fancy toys and players starting from scratch like myself. For the first time in the history of the game, a new player could start a character and have a reasonable expectation that using only the silver they earn while leveling they could achieve some degree of parity with players who have been hording the finest items for decades (not that it prevented those players from stacking fusion!).
I guess my question is: What do you expect the impact of the fusion changes will be in this context? And also, do you intend to leave anything I've done un-nerfed? LoL
~Taverkin
BLACKKOBOLD2
GS4-WYROM
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 04:50 PM CST
I'm not ready to talk about those changes yet, but it won't have as much as an impact on how fusion already exists.
What I'd like to challenge you with, is look at fusion from a game development standpoint. Try to think of it objectively. You have to first find an enhancive worth turning into an orb. You also have to choose what to orb, which can be a painstakingly hard task on a really good enhancive. There is an upfront cost, as well as ongoing upkeep. You are limited to 6 orbs on a single character with OTS fusion arms. Those are the downsides. The upsides are removing the persistence concerns of an enhancive, being able to achieve max enhancive traits over time, ability to swab needs with current skillsets, and have an overall system that lacks any mechanical hardships. Once achieved, there is no further work.
GS is a tough mix when it comes to combat/skills. On one hand, we're not balanced for PvP, so that element is off the table. But on the other hand, we're a 20+ year old game that needs to adjust goals to keep things interesting and fun. Or everyone would eventually be bottled necked into a specific build, get bored, and leave. You can argue you'd leave if we take away that power or that power makes the game fun. You can also argue there are more downsides to fusion, like cost to enchant, up properties, getting a hold of powerful enhancives, or how much of the game population have those connections to make it happen. GS development is a lot of tweaking and making systems more thoughtful and thorough. But sometimes the path to do that we have to correct oversights in an original design.
When we hit a roadblock with development, we have to solve the issues of why there is a roadblock to begin with. It's difficult to move on with game design when we are limited by very fixed mindsets. Most other games out there simply raise the level cap, both requiring new gear and new materials to find. When a game goes from level 50 to level 60 in an update, most gear is locked by the level of the character, meaning you're set on a whole new grind to get the level 52, level 54, level 56, level 58, and the level 60 gear as you progress to the new cap. And then you grind a target to get a specific drop until you're decked out again. There are some costs involved, but for the most part, GS doesn't have that.
Fusion is a great system, you won't find many people denying that. It picked up a lot of the shortcomings of our enhancive system and made it something very desirable. We aren't taking that aspect away.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
What I'd like to challenge you with, is look at fusion from a game development standpoint. Try to think of it objectively. You have to first find an enhancive worth turning into an orb. You also have to choose what to orb, which can be a painstakingly hard task on a really good enhancive. There is an upfront cost, as well as ongoing upkeep. You are limited to 6 orbs on a single character with OTS fusion arms. Those are the downsides. The upsides are removing the persistence concerns of an enhancive, being able to achieve max enhancive traits over time, ability to swab needs with current skillsets, and have an overall system that lacks any mechanical hardships. Once achieved, there is no further work.
GS is a tough mix when it comes to combat/skills. On one hand, we're not balanced for PvP, so that element is off the table. But on the other hand, we're a 20+ year old game that needs to adjust goals to keep things interesting and fun. Or everyone would eventually be bottled necked into a specific build, get bored, and leave. You can argue you'd leave if we take away that power or that power makes the game fun. You can also argue there are more downsides to fusion, like cost to enchant, up properties, getting a hold of powerful enhancives, or how much of the game population have those connections to make it happen. GS development is a lot of tweaking and making systems more thoughtful and thorough. But sometimes the path to do that we have to correct oversights in an original design.
When we hit a roadblock with development, we have to solve the issues of why there is a roadblock to begin with. It's difficult to move on with game design when we are limited by very fixed mindsets. Most other games out there simply raise the level cap, both requiring new gear and new materials to find. When a game goes from level 50 to level 60 in an update, most gear is locked by the level of the character, meaning you're set on a whole new grind to get the level 52, level 54, level 56, level 58, and the level 60 gear as you progress to the new cap. And then you grind a target to get a specific drop until you're decked out again. There are some costs involved, but for the most part, GS doesn't have that.
Fusion is a great system, you won't find many people denying that. It picked up a lot of the shortcomings of our enhancive system and made it something very desirable. We aren't taking that aspect away.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
DESTINY14
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 06:54 PM CST
>You can argue you'd leave if we take away that power or that power makes the game fun. You can also argue there are more downsides to fusion, like cost to enchant, up properties, getting a hold of powerful enhancives, or how much of the game population have those connections to make it happen. GS development is a lot of tweaking and making systems more thoughtful and thorough. But sometimes the path to do that we have to correct oversights in an original design.
Here's some food for thought someone should consider objectively. With the exception of the Spitfire and until the Firebird, fusion and the shaman in particular have been exclusively pay event releases. The biggest glut in fusion orb fodder came from Duskruin sewers, which were allowed to generate loot with no concern as to the effects on the player economy, never mind game balance. In fact, in the last runs, the level cap was even removed so a level 0 F2P AFK scripted character could still get capped quality enhancives out of the system, which was completely mind-boggling.
So basically, the result is you're saying people got too much out of things they actively paid extra for, and now the solution is to nerf it to oblivion to clean the slate. This was so completely short-sighted and yes, these issues were written on the wall when fusion was released 5 years ago, yet it was allowed to happen for the sake of the cash grab from pay events.
Objectively speaking, continuing to take away from things people had already paid for is going to do nothing to inspire people to keep paying more for a subscription based game, nor to spend much on any in-game extras in the future when this is how things are retroactively nerfed. When Dev and pay events conflict like this, the business side of Simu wants to have their cake and eat it too. Things like this don't work when players are paying for both subscriptions AND the extras. This game isn't free, like I've said many times.
Here's some food for thought someone should consider objectively. With the exception of the Spitfire and until the Firebird, fusion and the shaman in particular have been exclusively pay event releases. The biggest glut in fusion orb fodder came from Duskruin sewers, which were allowed to generate loot with no concern as to the effects on the player economy, never mind game balance. In fact, in the last runs, the level cap was even removed so a level 0 F2P AFK scripted character could still get capped quality enhancives out of the system, which was completely mind-boggling.
So basically, the result is you're saying people got too much out of things they actively paid extra for, and now the solution is to nerf it to oblivion to clean the slate. This was so completely short-sighted and yes, these issues were written on the wall when fusion was released 5 years ago, yet it was allowed to happen for the sake of the cash grab from pay events.
Objectively speaking, continuing to take away from things people had already paid for is going to do nothing to inspire people to keep paying more for a subscription based game, nor to spend much on any in-game extras in the future when this is how things are retroactively nerfed. When Dev and pay events conflict like this, the business side of Simu wants to have their cake and eat it too. Things like this don't work when players are paying for both subscriptions AND the extras. This game isn't free, like I've said many times.
BLACKKOBOLD2
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 07:16 PM CST
<I'm not ready to talk about those changes yet, but it won't have as much as an impact on how fusion already exists.
As I've recently been painfully reminded, the impact of a change is not necessarily equal across the board. Hence my concern, as a player rather heavily-invested in the fusion system. Enhancive bonuses, including fusion, make up nearly all the meaningful benefits of my gear. Depending upon what you do to the fusion system, it could have a great impact upon me. Whereas someone who invested in other gear stands to lose nothing from any change.
For the good of the game? Sure. But let's keep an eye out for the impact to players and potential players now. If you're going to break something, what are you doing to compensate? If it's part of a plan to rework a system, then how about developing that plan fully before implementing the necessary-but-painful nerfs so that players aren't hit with the nerf bat "for the good of the game" and left feeling disappointed. There's a better way to handle that.
~Taverkin
As I've recently been painfully reminded, the impact of a change is not necessarily equal across the board. Hence my concern, as a player rather heavily-invested in the fusion system. Enhancive bonuses, including fusion, make up nearly all the meaningful benefits of my gear. Depending upon what you do to the fusion system, it could have a great impact upon me. Whereas someone who invested in other gear stands to lose nothing from any change.
For the good of the game? Sure. But let's keep an eye out for the impact to players and potential players now. If you're going to break something, what are you doing to compensate? If it's part of a plan to rework a system, then how about developing that plan fully before implementing the necessary-but-painful nerfs so that players aren't hit with the nerf bat "for the good of the game" and left feeling disappointed. There's a better way to handle that.
~Taverkin
DESTINY14
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 08:38 PM CST
Most post-capped hunting isn't even worth the effort because post-cap hunting grounds have next to no loot, not because things are too easy and boring.
Being "powerful" in terms of acquiring extra gear, enhancives, and buffs only saves you some deaths at the post-cap level. What's boring is struggling and still getting no loot.
I can understand some people wanting a challenge from time to time, but I don't know why anyone would want to be frustrated and die on a regular basis. A lot of people pay for gear and toys precisely so this can happen as infrequently as possible because death = tedium = no fun.
If someone wants a challenge, in any area of the game, it's very easy to power down. What is impossible is powering up past the ceiling that seems to get lowered every day. A lot of the fun in post-cap hunting lies in mowing things down easily, not continuing to struggle and plink away as if you were freshly capped or pre-cap. If this isn't achievable any more, a lot of fun has disappeared.
Being "powerful" in terms of acquiring extra gear, enhancives, and buffs only saves you some deaths at the post-cap level. What's boring is struggling and still getting no loot.
I can understand some people wanting a challenge from time to time, but I don't know why anyone would want to be frustrated and die on a regular basis. A lot of people pay for gear and toys precisely so this can happen as infrequently as possible because death = tedium = no fun.
If someone wants a challenge, in any area of the game, it's very easy to power down. What is impossible is powering up past the ceiling that seems to get lowered every day. A lot of the fun in post-cap hunting lies in mowing things down easily, not continuing to struggle and plink away as if you were freshly capped or pre-cap. If this isn't achievable any more, a lot of fun has disappeared.
SHAYD11
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 08:59 PM CST
>This was so completely short-sighted and yes, these issues were written on the wall when fusion was released 5 years ago, yet it was allowed to happen for the sake of the cash grab from pay events.
100% agree with this
100% agree with this
GS4-WYROM
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 09:51 PM CST
>>So basically, the result is you're saying people got too much out of things they actively paid extra for, and now the solution is to nerf it to oblivion to clean the slate. This was so completely short-sighted and yes, these issues were written on the wall when fusion was released 5 years ago, yet it was allowed to happen for the sake of the cash grab from pay events.
Not at all. Five years ago I wasn't the APM. Five years ago, we had different management in charge of development. Five years ago things were very stagnant. You can't have it both ways. Complain GS development moves at glacial speeds when nothing happens and complain when things are finally moving and the roadblocks are being worked on. Would you rather go back to five years ago?
Orbing and Duskruin have no weight on why fusion was put under review. It's very simply the result of GMs who care about the future of the game. The ONLY reason why there was big time disclaimers that fusion may be undergoing some changes and that it may be the last time fusion exists in the current state was to give everyone proper notice at Ebon Gate. I wanted no one caught by surprise no matter how big or small fusion changes.
We mostly need a little more control over the fusion system and a lot more monitoring overall. I will tell you all what the plan is. We have no plans to rush this. And fusion has no plans in the near future. This would be the case whether or not fusion was being worked on. As I've stated, fusion isn't getting this complete redesign from the ground up. It's undergoing some review, since those before me did not think of the long-term flaws like I am. I'd like to see GS continue on. The only thing short-sighted is when you argue for the systems that are LEFT in flawed states. That goes for anything, not just fusion.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
Not at all. Five years ago I wasn't the APM. Five years ago, we had different management in charge of development. Five years ago things were very stagnant. You can't have it both ways. Complain GS development moves at glacial speeds when nothing happens and complain when things are finally moving and the roadblocks are being worked on. Would you rather go back to five years ago?
Orbing and Duskruin have no weight on why fusion was put under review. It's very simply the result of GMs who care about the future of the game. The ONLY reason why there was big time disclaimers that fusion may be undergoing some changes and that it may be the last time fusion exists in the current state was to give everyone proper notice at Ebon Gate. I wanted no one caught by surprise no matter how big or small fusion changes.
We mostly need a little more control over the fusion system and a lot more monitoring overall. I will tell you all what the plan is. We have no plans to rush this. And fusion has no plans in the near future. This would be the case whether or not fusion was being worked on. As I've stated, fusion isn't getting this complete redesign from the ground up. It's undergoing some review, since those before me did not think of the long-term flaws like I am. I'd like to see GS continue on. The only thing short-sighted is when you argue for the systems that are LEFT in flawed states. That goes for anything, not just fusion.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
DESTINY14
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 10:46 PM CST
>Complain GS development moves at glacial speeds when nothing happens and complain when things are finally moving and the roadblocks are being worked on. Would you rather go back to five years ago?
I've actually never been one who has ever said GS development moves at glacial speeds. It's ironic that you ask if we would rather go back to five years ago when the result of what you're doing, to ensure we can move forward, is to move power levels back to five years ago. People want improvements, not resetting the clock so that it can take another 5 years to strive to get back to a similar level. That's a massive waste of everyone's time, energy, and money. I've never said I wanted post-cap development at the cost of making post-cap skills necessary to achieve the same level of power there was 2 weeks ago. This is the definition of continuing to pay more for less, not improving the game.
>It's undergoing some review, since those before me did not think of the long-term flaws like I am.
Well, that's painfully obvious. But from a long-term customer perspective, those who have supported the game the longest and to the greatest extent in terms of pay events are the ones losing the most. What kind of message does this send people when the people paying to support the game the most are the ones paying for the price of balance? You (Simu) can't have your cake and eat it too.
>I'd like to see GS continue on. The only thing short-sighted is when you argue for the systems that are LEFT in flawed states. That goes for anything, not just fusion.
I'd like to see GS continue on, but the only thing this is doing is speeding up the exodus of those who had been around the longest and have paid the most. With all the talk of acceptable losses, it's no wonder people feel that Simu has zero respect for their long-term customers. I hope after getting rid of everyone so that the game can continue on for longer, you'll be able to find some new people willing to pay on the same level to support the game that long-term customers had in the past.
I've actually never been one who has ever said GS development moves at glacial speeds. It's ironic that you ask if we would rather go back to five years ago when the result of what you're doing, to ensure we can move forward, is to move power levels back to five years ago. People want improvements, not resetting the clock so that it can take another 5 years to strive to get back to a similar level. That's a massive waste of everyone's time, energy, and money. I've never said I wanted post-cap development at the cost of making post-cap skills necessary to achieve the same level of power there was 2 weeks ago. This is the definition of continuing to pay more for less, not improving the game.
>It's undergoing some review, since those before me did not think of the long-term flaws like I am.
Well, that's painfully obvious. But from a long-term customer perspective, those who have supported the game the longest and to the greatest extent in terms of pay events are the ones losing the most. What kind of message does this send people when the people paying to support the game the most are the ones paying for the price of balance? You (Simu) can't have your cake and eat it too.
>I'd like to see GS continue on. The only thing short-sighted is when you argue for the systems that are LEFT in flawed states. That goes for anything, not just fusion.
I'd like to see GS continue on, but the only thing this is doing is speeding up the exodus of those who had been around the longest and have paid the most. With all the talk of acceptable losses, it's no wonder people feel that Simu has zero respect for their long-term customers. I hope after getting rid of everyone so that the game can continue on for longer, you'll be able to find some new people willing to pay on the same level to support the game that long-term customers had in the past.
BLACKKOBOLD2
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 10:53 PM CST
<Not at all. Five years ago I wasn't the APM. Five years ago, we had different management in charge of development. Five years ago things were very stagnant. You can't have it both ways. <Complain GS development moves at glacial speeds when nothing happens and complain when things are finally moving and the roadblocks are being worked on. Would you rather go back to five years <ago?
I don't question your vision at all, Wyrom. You're moving us in the right direction. But at this point I have every reason to question the execution of the various steps along the way. Just because you can see the top of the mountain doesn't mean you won't lead us off of a cliff!
<We mostly need a little more control over the fusion system and a lot more monitoring overall. I will tell you all what the plan is. We have no plans to rush this. And fusion has no plans in <the near future. This would be the case whether or not fusion was being worked on. As I've stated, fusion isn't getting this complete redesign from the ground up. It's undergoing some review, <since those before me did not think of the long-term flaws like I am. I'd like to see GS continue on. The only thing short-sighted is when you argue for the systems that are LEFT in flawed <states. That goes for anything, not just fusion.
Again, execution matters. I can agree with the reasoning, and yet question the merits of the solution. Call me "cautiously pessimistic". I've been burned, but I want to trust that this isn't just going to push me further away from GS.
~Taverkin
I don't question your vision at all, Wyrom. You're moving us in the right direction. But at this point I have every reason to question the execution of the various steps along the way. Just because you can see the top of the mountain doesn't mean you won't lead us off of a cliff!
<We mostly need a little more control over the fusion system and a lot more monitoring overall. I will tell you all what the plan is. We have no plans to rush this. And fusion has no plans in <the near future. This would be the case whether or not fusion was being worked on. As I've stated, fusion isn't getting this complete redesign from the ground up. It's undergoing some review, <since those before me did not think of the long-term flaws like I am. I'd like to see GS continue on. The only thing short-sighted is when you argue for the systems that are LEFT in flawed <states. That goes for anything, not just fusion.
Again, execution matters. I can agree with the reasoning, and yet question the merits of the solution. Call me "cautiously pessimistic". I've been burned, but I want to trust that this isn't just going to push me further away from GS.
~Taverkin
DESTINY14
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 11:27 PM CST
Not specifically applicable to fusion but speaking more generally about the direction of the game, moving things backwards for the sake of putting goals further out of reach is not game development or improvement. It's treading in place. Make it frustrating enough, and eventually players will just get off the treadmill when combat and the game start to seem like work and not fun. It's not going to inspire people to waste another 5 years to regain the lost power or abilities just because the game is more tedious, less fun, and takes even longer to progress. There has to be some middle ground between stagnant development and just resetting the clock.
PC1234
Re: Fusion
01/31/2016 11:27 PM CST
| It's very simply the result of GMs who care about the future of the game. |
This reason has been tossed around a lot recently.
Every nerf has been chalked up to "It's simply that we care about the future of the game."
Frankly, I would be happy to never hear this excuse being used ever again.
RATHBONER
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 06:59 AM CST
>What I'd like to challenge you with, is look at fusion from a game development standpoint.
Its the enhancive system as a whole, not fusion in particular that needs looking at. The degree to which skills and stats can be enhanced is just too great compared to the underlying systems. I don't think there'd be much of a problem with fusion if there wasn't a problem with enhancives. I really don't like the way the limit varies between professions (2 for monks, 4 for pures, 6 for the rest) but otherwise it would have a lot going for it as part of the enhancive system, if the enhancive system as a whole wasn't so unbalancing.
Its the enhancive system as a whole, not fusion in particular that needs looking at. The degree to which skills and stats can be enhanced is just too great compared to the underlying systems. I don't think there'd be much of a problem with fusion if there wasn't a problem with enhancives. I really don't like the way the limit varies between professions (2 for monks, 4 for pures, 6 for the rest) but otherwise it would have a lot going for it as part of the enhancive system, if the enhancive system as a whole wasn't so unbalancing.
LORDKRIP
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 07:47 AM CST
I'm really confused by the sentiment expressed here regarding fusion. But mostly I feel like this just illustrates my general confusion with Simutronics and their customer service on the development side of their business here in GSIV.
By starting the dialog with, "I'm not ready to talk about those changes yet", you're cutting all further dialog off at the knees. You've given the players a warning or an informational statement that 'fusion is changing/under review', but what purpose does it serve? Who does it serve? Are we supposed to be grateful to know that a thing we like is changing, and we have no input, no recourse, and no actual ability at further dialog to learn anything (evidenced by the opening statement).
It's easy to see all of the above as simply some slight or injustice against the player base, but that's silly. Why would the APM (or any caring employee) troll the customers of the business they work for? So, that can't be it. These attempts at pre-change transparency has some other intention or purpose. Is it to keep the customers informed? To help customers transition so they're not shocked?
I'm honestly confused because I see this interaction over and over.
Simu: Unconfirmed and currently undescribed changes are coming!
Players: SKY IS FALLING!
Other Players: Which sky?! This sky! No that sky! Also, we hate you!
Simu: We're still working on the thing we're not talking to you about.
Players: Just hurry up already
Other players: *rabid foaming teeth clacking noises*
Simu: We finished the thing! We're very proud of ourselves! Please praise us.
Players: Oh, that? Most of those other players quit
Simu: But, we... =(
Players: What have you done for us lately?!
Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein
By starting the dialog with, "I'm not ready to talk about those changes yet", you're cutting all further dialog off at the knees. You've given the players a warning or an informational statement that 'fusion is changing/under review', but what purpose does it serve? Who does it serve? Are we supposed to be grateful to know that a thing we like is changing, and we have no input, no recourse, and no actual ability at further dialog to learn anything (evidenced by the opening statement).
It's easy to see all of the above as simply some slight or injustice against the player base, but that's silly. Why would the APM (or any caring employee) troll the customers of the business they work for? So, that can't be it. These attempts at pre-change transparency has some other intention or purpose. Is it to keep the customers informed? To help customers transition so they're not shocked?
I'm honestly confused because I see this interaction over and over.
Simu: Unconfirmed and currently undescribed changes are coming!
Players: SKY IS FALLING!
Other Players: Which sky?! This sky! No that sky! Also, we hate you!
Simu: We're still working on the thing we're not talking to you about.
Players: Just hurry up already
Other players: *rabid foaming teeth clacking noises*
Simu: We finished the thing! We're very proud of ourselves! Please praise us.
Players: Oh, that? Most of those other players quit
Simu: But, we... =(
Players: What have you done for us lately?!
Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein
CAPTAINREDBEARD
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 08:37 AM CST
Yah that does make some sense. What are the current problems with the enhancive/fusion system?
DAID
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 08:50 AM CST
>By starting the dialog with, "I'm not ready to talk about those changes yet", you're cutting all further dialog off at the knees. You've given the players a warning or an informational statement that 'fusion is changing/under review', but what purpose does it serve? Who does it serve? Are we supposed to be grateful to know that a thing we like is changing, and we have no input, no recourse, and no actual ability at further dialog to learn anything (evidenced by the opening statement).
I kind of have to agree, in the sense of not knowing what to do with this information. There was the claim on the wizard forums that the recent changes to wizards could not have been communicated more poorly (which I strongly disagreed with for various reasons). The present information on fusion actually compares well with the extreme example I gave of worse communication (which was a lot of non-sense words surrounding 'wizards will be changing soon').
I've never used fusion, because it not only requires more expensive (and new) base gear, but then investing coins into the orbs as well. Whether my reasons for not using the system points to some of its flaws I'm unsure, but I'd be more likely to use fusion if it was easier to add fusion slots to existing items. In principle accessibility of adding new fusion slots to existing items could be offset by maximizing the number of fusion orbs that can apply to a single character at a given time; this would address Rath's point how fusion isn't well-balanced with regard to different professions, too.
Of course, anyone who is presently using more fusion slots than whatever this limit is would probably not be in favor of such a change.
Overall, now I'm wondering if should I be trying to get some of the existing 4x fusion gear, in case the number of slots off-the-shelf decrease and the price on older items skyrockets? Or maybe I ought to continue avoiding the system because it's dumb to invest in a system which will somehow be changing? Note that these are 100% opposite behaviors, which tells me the warning about fusion changing isn't really helping me at all, and I don't think I'm alone here.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
I kind of have to agree, in the sense of not knowing what to do with this information. There was the claim on the wizard forums that the recent changes to wizards could not have been communicated more poorly (which I strongly disagreed with for various reasons). The present information on fusion actually compares well with the extreme example I gave of worse communication (which was a lot of non-sense words surrounding 'wizards will be changing soon').
I've never used fusion, because it not only requires more expensive (and new) base gear, but then investing coins into the orbs as well. Whether my reasons for not using the system points to some of its flaws I'm unsure, but I'd be more likely to use fusion if it was easier to add fusion slots to existing items. In principle accessibility of adding new fusion slots to existing items could be offset by maximizing the number of fusion orbs that can apply to a single character at a given time; this would address Rath's point how fusion isn't well-balanced with regard to different professions, too.
Of course, anyone who is presently using more fusion slots than whatever this limit is would probably not be in favor of such a change.
Overall, now I'm wondering if should I be trying to get some of the existing 4x fusion gear, in case the number of slots off-the-shelf decrease and the price on older items skyrockets? Or maybe I ought to continue avoiding the system because it's dumb to invest in a system which will somehow be changing? Note that these are 100% opposite behaviors, which tells me the warning about fusion changing isn't really helping me at all, and I don't think I'm alone here.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
CAVEMANIAC
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 10:04 AM CST
Wyrom posts there wont be much change for how fusion currently exists and suddenly its getting nerfed into oblivion? They just cant win these days. I will however add my name to the folks that enjoy fusion as a means to create a custom set of gear. The ability to offset bad racial stats and maximize combat stats are very important to me. I hope whatever the adjustments are this is considered. It also effects certain combat styles more than others.
VANKRASN39
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 10:20 AM CST
>Orbing and Duskruin have no weight on why fusion was put under review.
Going the other way, this notice has a serious effect on the ROI for Duskruin. I hope there will be an announcement before the next run with what will happen with the fusion system. High bonus enhancives (>5 stat bonus, >11 skill bonus) were rarely seen before Duskruin. The event flooded the market with enhancives that were able to be sold based on the fact that they could be orbed. Not being able to orb anything will put the value of most items back to 35k.
GS4-WYROM
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 01:53 PM CST
>>By starting the dialog with, "I'm not ready to talk about those changes yet", you're cutting all further dialog off at the knees. You've given the players a warning or an informational statement that 'fusion is changing/under review', but what purpose does it serve? Who does it serve? Are we supposed to be grateful to know that a thing we like is changing, and we have no input, no recourse, and no actual ability at further dialog to learn anything (evidenced by the opening statement).
I think you've got the wrong idea here. I'm not ready to talk about it for a few reasons. It's not 100% finalized. I don't have the time to dedicate to fusion right now. My response here is simply that. A player asked a question and I wanted to keep that communication channel open. There are a lot of topics on these forums, so things get missed. I didn't want to leave things "hanging" so to speak.
No one is asking for praise or asking players to be grateful. Things aren't that black and white. I'm doing my part in fielding some questions, that's really it. When I can spend some time on the fusion situation, I will. But we're a ways out.
The reason a topic exists is so you can discuss it though. So if you have ideas, concerns, and suggestions, feel free. Just understand that we might not see eye-to-eye.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
I think you've got the wrong idea here. I'm not ready to talk about it for a few reasons. It's not 100% finalized. I don't have the time to dedicate to fusion right now. My response here is simply that. A player asked a question and I wanted to keep that communication channel open. There are a lot of topics on these forums, so things get missed. I didn't want to leave things "hanging" so to speak.
No one is asking for praise or asking players to be grateful. Things aren't that black and white. I'm doing my part in fielding some questions, that's really it. When I can spend some time on the fusion situation, I will. But we're a ways out.
The reason a topic exists is so you can discuss it though. So if you have ideas, concerns, and suggestions, feel free. Just understand that we might not see eye-to-eye.
~Wyrom, APM
>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean
DESTINY14
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 01:59 PM CST
>Going the other way, this notice has a serious effect on the ROI for Duskruin. I hope there will be an announcement before the next run with what will happen with the fusion system. High bonus enhancives (>5 stat bonus, >11 skill bonus) were rarely seen before Duskruin. The event flooded the market with enhancives that were able to be sold based on the fact that they could be orbed. Not being able to orb anything will put the value of most items back to 35k.
Nobody should be doing Duskruin as an "investment", so ROI doesn't really apply at all. You're supposed to pay for the items you want, and the loot is a bonus. I'd prefer if there was no glut of loot that wasn't allowed than all of this nerfing going on after the fact for things people already paid for.
Nobody should be doing Duskruin as an "investment", so ROI doesn't really apply at all. You're supposed to pay for the items you want, and the loot is a bonus. I'd prefer if there was no glut of loot that wasn't allowed than all of this nerfing going on after the fact for things people already paid for.
VANKRASN39
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 02:22 PM CST
>Nobody should be doing Duskruin as an "investment", so ROI doesn't really apply at all. You're supposed to pay for the items you want, and the loot is a bonus. I'd prefer if there was no glut of loot that wasn't allowed than all of this nerfing going on after the fact for things people already paid for.
I don't think it is up to you to determine why people should go into the arena over and over.
DESTINY14
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 02:37 PM CST
>I don't think it is up to you to determine why people should go into the arena over and over.
Of course it isn't, but I acknowledge when things are broken past the point of no return. If you prefer them to continue selling you a bunch of loot that will get nerfed sooner than later because it wasn't supposed to be released in such quantity, that's up to you, but I prefer to pay for things that will last and were meant to be released, even if it means less in the short-term.
Of course it isn't, but I acknowledge when things are broken past the point of no return. If you prefer them to continue selling you a bunch of loot that will get nerfed sooner than later because it wasn't supposed to be released in such quantity, that's up to you, but I prefer to pay for things that will last and were meant to be released, even if it means less in the short-term.
VANKRASN39
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 02:48 PM CST
>Of course it isn't, but I acknowledge when things are broken past the point of no return. If you prefer them to continue selling you a bunch of loot that will get nerfed sooner than later because it wasn't supposed to be released in such quantity, that's up to you, but I prefer to pay for things that will last and were meant to be released, even if it means less in the short-term.
If Duskruin has no impact on the decision to review fusion, then my question is legitimate. It's a simple request for information before the event in April. Calm down.
KEITHOBAD
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 03:58 PM CST
For me what is most confusing about this whole "Fusion OP" thing is that fusion seems to be one of the MOST EXPENSIVE ways to increase character power. Wyrom's position that you get too much for too little seems completely contrary to my reality.
You need fusion base gear, which AFAIK always starts at a base 4x.
You're already spending an opportunity cost of not being able to have weighting or padding on this item.
Then you need to expensively, slowly upgrade it up to a desired enchant. Using a Lv100 wizard well trained for enchanting.
Find/buy enhancives that are good for your particular build.
Orb those enhancives which will cost a bunch more silvers.
Once installed, you STILL have an ONGOING cost in terms of bounty points that will never end. And these costs are not cheap. Hours and hours of bounty grinding is required just to tread water with regard to keeping your gear working.
And yet you think fusion is too easy/cheap? What the...?
Compare that to the costs for padding/weighting/flares/enchantment/ensorcell/enhancive-jewellery/etc.. and fusion is the MOST expensive type of gear in terms of cost and effort required.
The disconnect here between how I see the fusion situation and Wyrom apparently sees it is disconcerting.
KANDOR
Re: Fusion
02/01/2016 04:59 PM CST
I'm a little hazy on this, but allowing enhancive items to be recharged, with fusion, seems to create more of the same issues that breakage was designed to stop. Enhancive items weren't intended to last forever, even when they persist. To the best of my recollection, the enhancive system was designed to be released and pair with catastrophic breakage to create (a) epic items of limited lifespan, (b) some neat merchant items of limited use, and (c) some random hopper items of limited value. I understand this design doesn't necessarily match what it is today.
Theoretically, if recharging didn't exist, fusion could still be just as powerful as it is today. If orb fodder was dropped more frequently and there were more slots in an item (like 5-7), and orbing was done in the guild instead of merchants, it would be just a regular routine to collect and add new orbs as the old ones fail. To add value for players, hard caps could be raised, existing items retrofitted, and existing orbs set at a very high number of charges. The value of enhancive items would probably be reduced, too.
I'm sure all this isn't fun and would cause an exodus of players, which is why I'm not suggesting it.
Theoretically, if recharging didn't exist, fusion could still be just as powerful as it is today. If orb fodder was dropped more frequently and there were more slots in an item (like 5-7), and orbing was done in the guild instead of merchants, it would be just a regular routine to collect and add new orbs as the old ones fail. To add value for players, hard caps could be raised, existing items retrofitted, and existing orbs set at a very high number of charges. The value of enhancive items would probably be reduced, too.
I'm sure all this isn't fun and would cause an exodus of players, which is why I'm not suggesting it.
DAID
Re: Fusion
02/02/2016 08:41 AM CST
>For me what is most confusing about this whole "Fusion OP" thing is that fusion seems to be one of the MOST EXPENSIVE ways to increase character power.
Exactly. That's why I haven't used fusion.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Exactly. That's why I haven't used fusion.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
BLACKKOBOLD2
Re: Fusion
02/02/2016 02:45 PM CST
Enhancives are powerful because the bonus is basically uncapped. If you care to collect them, you can wear as many enhancive pieces as you have room for. Fusion allows large bonuses and flexibility on top of that. The result is that as long as you're willing to pay the up front and upkeep costs, you can massively boosts whatever stats and skills you like.
There's another reason fusion/enhancives are powerful, though. You find these items mainly via the treasure system. The orbs and fusion armors themselves are merchant items, but all of the bonuses come from the treasure system. That's different from the merchant service items that have traditionally made GS characters powerful. I would hate to see this system changed in such a way that this is no longer the case.
~Taverkin
There's another reason fusion/enhancives are powerful, though. You find these items mainly via the treasure system. The orbs and fusion armors themselves are merchant items, but all of the bonuses come from the treasure system. That's different from the merchant service items that have traditionally made GS characters powerful. I would hate to see this system changed in such a way that this is no longer the case.
~Taverkin
VANKRASN39
Re: Fusion
02/02/2016 02:51 PM CST
>Enhancives are powerful because the bonus is basically uncapped.
no, the bonus is capped at 40 to stat (20 stat bonus), 50 skill
BLACKKOBOLD2
Re: Fusion
02/02/2016 03:58 PM CST
Poor choice of words. What I meant to say is that you can boost as many stats/skills as you like. The only cap is, as you say 40 stat/50 skill and the number of slots you have available for enhancive gear. It's a powerful benefit and it has to be to compete with some of the over-the-top pay offerings and legacy items available to established players.
~Taverkin
~Taverkin
ZENNSUNNI
Re: Fusion
05/25/2016 01:37 PM CDT
>And yet you think fusion is too easy/cheap? What the...?
Compare that to the costs for padding/weighting/flares/enchantment/ensorcell/enhancive-jewellery/etc.. and fusion is the MOST expensive type of gear in terms of cost and effort required.
I tend to agree, I don't see how fusion is OP at all, nor enhancives. I mean, if you think enhancives are OP, have you heard of this little thing called crit padding? DB items? Sure, enhancives and fusion items are powerful, and sure they can have powerful net effect if someone really, really invests heavily in them, but the only people doing that are diehard post-cap people that are trying to maximize their power as a sort of fun nerd project. I should hope that someone who invested the time, money, and upkeep to have +40 to all stats should be rewarded for it, jesus.
I also challenge the supposition that enhancives and fusion are "OP" at all. Disclaimer, I've played this game for like 23 years, have played probably 10 characters to level 20+ (5 to 40+, 3 to 50+) and I love game systems and have read extensively about how gemstone's mechanics work. Having +20 on every stat bonus is a big deal, but in the scenario wherein character power reaalllllly matters (combat with a critter), I'd take MCP over +20 to all stats any day of the week, unless I was a caster facing something with no maneuvers.
The problem with fusion is simple. You let it co-exist with already OP systems like padding. Fusion should probably always have taken up the padding slot, forcing a really meaningful change between the two. You can't change that now, and God help you if you tried. Given that fact, I think fusion should more or less be left alone.
Hell, I could cogently argue that regular enhancives are more of a problem than fusion, and you guys went and made Sylinar's Spire? The more I think about this, the more I 100% agree that you guys put something powerful in the game, used it as a cash grab, and now are complaining that it was OP and needs to be controlled. Sylinar's Spire puts the lie to your argument Wyrom, sorry.
Compare that to the costs for padding/weighting/flares/enchantment/ensorcell/enhancive-jewellery/etc.. and fusion is the MOST expensive type of gear in terms of cost and effort required.
I tend to agree, I don't see how fusion is OP at all, nor enhancives. I mean, if you think enhancives are OP, have you heard of this little thing called crit padding? DB items? Sure, enhancives and fusion items are powerful, and sure they can have powerful net effect if someone really, really invests heavily in them, but the only people doing that are diehard post-cap people that are trying to maximize their power as a sort of fun nerd project. I should hope that someone who invested the time, money, and upkeep to have +40 to all stats should be rewarded for it, jesus.
I also challenge the supposition that enhancives and fusion are "OP" at all. Disclaimer, I've played this game for like 23 years, have played probably 10 characters to level 20+ (5 to 40+, 3 to 50+) and I love game systems and have read extensively about how gemstone's mechanics work. Having +20 on every stat bonus is a big deal, but in the scenario wherein character power reaalllllly matters (combat with a critter), I'd take MCP over +20 to all stats any day of the week, unless I was a caster facing something with no maneuvers.
The problem with fusion is simple. You let it co-exist with already OP systems like padding. Fusion should probably always have taken up the padding slot, forcing a really meaningful change between the two. You can't change that now, and God help you if you tried. Given that fact, I think fusion should more or less be left alone.
Hell, I could cogently argue that regular enhancives are more of a problem than fusion, and you guys went and made Sylinar's Spire? The more I think about this, the more I 100% agree that you guys put something powerful in the game, used it as a cash grab, and now are complaining that it was OP and needs to be controlled. Sylinar's Spire puts the lie to your argument Wyrom, sorry.
KRAKII
Re: Fusion
05/25/2016 02:09 PM CDT
"Disclaimer, I've played this game for like 23 years" -- Zennsunni
Disclaimer, nope.
(Because I won't even get to that point until later this fall; by now there's only a couple folks who were here before me; and at least one of them hasn't been here continuously through that duration.)
.
Fusion should probably have been limited as "only weapon buffing skills on weapons", or "only defense buffing skills on armor/shields", or "only casting buffing skills on runestaves/robes"; stats the same (STR/AGI/DEX for weapons, AGI/DEX for armor, <mana stat>/AGI/DEX for casting items); point bonus/recovery similar (stamina/hit points on weapons & armor, mana on spellcasting).
Probably with a limit (like "nothing higher than +7", which is what you can get through PremiumPoints) per slot. So even finding a really good booster does you limited good because you can't benefit from that orb.
Disclaimer, nope.
(Because I won't even get to that point until later this fall; by now there's only a couple folks who were here before me; and at least one of them hasn't been here continuously through that duration.)
.
Fusion should probably have been limited as "only weapon buffing skills on weapons", or "only defense buffing skills on armor/shields", or "only casting buffing skills on runestaves/robes"; stats the same (STR/AGI/DEX for weapons, AGI/DEX for armor, <mana stat>/AGI/DEX for casting items); point bonus/recovery similar (stamina/hit points on weapons & armor, mana on spellcasting).
Probably with a limit (like "nothing higher than +7", which is what you can get through PremiumPoints) per slot. So even finding a really good booster does you limited good because you can't benefit from that orb.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Fusion
05/25/2016 02:16 PM CDT
>> Disclaimer, nope.
>> (Because I won't even get to that point until later this fall; by now there's only a couple folks who were here before me; and at least one of them hasn't been here continuously through that duration.)
May want to re-check your math? I met my wife on Gemstone and we've been married over 26 years now so it's definitely been around at least that long.
And 20, 23, 26... at the end of the day it's a darned long time to have been playing this game.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
>> (Because I won't even get to that point until later this fall; by now there's only a couple folks who were here before me; and at least one of them hasn't been here continuously through that duration.)
May want to re-check your math? I met my wife on Gemstone and we've been married over 26 years now so it's definitely been around at least that long.
And 20, 23, 26... at the end of the day it's a darned long time to have been playing this game.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
KRAKII
Re: Fusion
05/26/2016 10:14 AM CDT
"May want to re-check your math? I met my wife on Gemstone and we've been married over 26 years now so it's definitely been around at least that long." -- PeregrineFalcon
I started in the September-to-November range of 1993. That's (not quite) 23 years.
If you started 26 years ago--because you've been married that long, and you met her here--then you started in 1990.
I disbelieve. (Sorry. But I do.)
Gremlynn started in 1991, during GS2.
Kree started in 1990.
Sorry, but I have 0% confidence that you've been here since Kree was.
I'm... not sure what that says about my confidence in your marriage.
I started in the September-to-November range of 1993. That's (not quite) 23 years.
If you started 26 years ago--because you've been married that long, and you met her here--then you started in 1990.
I disbelieve. (Sorry. But I do.)
Gremlynn started in 1991, during GS2.
Kree started in 1990.
Sorry, but I have 0% confidence that you've been here since Kree was.
I'm... not sure what that says about my confidence in your marriage.
LUXELLE
Re: Fusion
05/26/2016 10:22 AM CDT
Is there anyone else left from GS2 days...?
Just a wonderment.
Just a wonderment.
LUXELLE
Re: Fusion
05/26/2016 03:29 PM CDT
>> since numbers suggest nobody from GSII is left
... you might be surprised, then. :)
DOUG
Re: Fusion
05/26/2016 04:20 PM CDT
I suspect that there may be some around who played GS II. Hell, even I can make that claim, playing on a buddy's account as he was trying to convince me to buy in. For two straight weeks - while he was deployed.
But I walked a different path, and didn't join myself or 'start a character' until GS III.
I suspect that there may be some who've played consistently and on the same account with the same character since first joining. Hell, even I can make that claim, my first character (not the Elf) to this day still exists.
And I suspect that there are those who, irrespective of when they joined, or which game, took breaks - as no matter how pleasant or polite the company, family wears on you. And that's what we are, and always have been.
Like long lost family members, we each have fond memories of our path and would share them. And I perhaps more than most suffer from the 'was it really 97? No, that's the web move date. 95? No, that's DE-ICing. Well, then it must have been 1892!' age-induced memory cycle.
As to whether my account is accurate by a factor of 10% over two decades, we'll none of us ever know. But, to suggest that someone found a spouse here, and has spent 26 years of bliss in that relationship and continued to enjoy the game?
I'll add my congratulations. I know at 26 years for me it was already past a 'lifetime of bliss' and wrapping back around to 'settling into bliss'. And no, I'm not talking about the game.
Well done, sir! Well done.
Doug
But I walked a different path, and didn't join myself or 'start a character' until GS III.
I suspect that there may be some who've played consistently and on the same account with the same character since first joining. Hell, even I can make that claim, my first character (not the Elf) to this day still exists.
And I suspect that there are those who, irrespective of when they joined, or which game, took breaks - as no matter how pleasant or polite the company, family wears on you. And that's what we are, and always have been.
Like long lost family members, we each have fond memories of our path and would share them. And I perhaps more than most suffer from the 'was it really 97? No, that's the web move date. 95? No, that's DE-ICing. Well, then it must have been 1892!' age-induced memory cycle.
As to whether my account is accurate by a factor of 10% over two decades, we'll none of us ever know. But, to suggest that someone found a spouse here, and has spent 26 years of bliss in that relationship and continued to enjoy the game?
I'll add my congratulations. I know at 26 years for me it was already past a 'lifetime of bliss' and wrapping back around to 'settling into bliss'. And no, I'm not talking about the game.
Well done, sir! Well done.
Doug
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Fusion
05/26/2016 07:53 PM CDT
>> If you started 26 years ago--because you've been married that long, and you met her here--then you started in 1990.
>> I disbelieve. (Sorry. But I do.)
Commander Lock: Dammit, Morpheus. Not everyone believes what you believe.
Morpheus: My beliefs do not require them to.
I'm not claiming that I've played continuously since that time. I stopped playing on Genie when I capped my first wizard (Theldorn) in GS II. I came back around the time of the original GS4 Hot Summer Nights (about 11.5 years ago). My original point was that it is not inconceivable that someone is playing the game today that was playing the game before you because... there are actually people here that were playing the game before you.
-- Robert
>> I disbelieve. (Sorry. But I do.)
Commander Lock: Dammit, Morpheus. Not everyone believes what you believe.
Morpheus: My beliefs do not require them to.
I'm not claiming that I've played continuously since that time. I stopped playing on Genie when I capped my first wizard (Theldorn) in GS II. I came back around the time of the original GS4 Hot Summer Nights (about 11.5 years ago). My original point was that it is not inconceivable that someone is playing the game today that was playing the game before you because... there are actually people here that were playing the game before you.
-- Robert
RROY
Re: Fusion
05/27/2016 05:51 AM CDT
I played GS-2 in 1988... I remember fighters saying "I'm just a st00pid fighter" as part of their jargon. Or how about spells that were circles you drew on the ground?
Just an elf about town...
Just an elf about town...
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Fusion
05/27/2016 08:18 AM CDT
Oh man... I forgot about the circles...
I think I have a box of logs from that time period somewhere in my garage (hurray for dot matrix printers!) I may have to go looking for them this weekend.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
I think I have a box of logs from that time period somewhere in my garage (hurray for dot matrix printers!) I may have to go looking for them this weekend.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
LUXELLE
Re: Fusion
05/27/2016 09:28 AM CDT
Those were enchanting circles!
The other spells you chanted.
"anaku dingir" ... I think was the web spell.
There was a "chalza" in something, I forget! eeeks.
A few of these old spells you'll still find sprinkled among the documentation for GSIV, I have found. It's a warm feeling every time I see something that old remembered and honored quietly. I don't know which GMs we have to thank for that, but I find it special.
I have a box of ...stuff... from the GS2 reunion held in SoCal after GS2 was closed and GS3 was open. I think it includes a few printed copies of the TownCrier newsletter. That was a great time, too.
I know where the box is, I just have not had the courage to open it up in well over a decade.
I've been posting some few scraps I have found in odd parts of archives from old computers at my blog:
http://www.thebardess.com/category/stories/gs2/
Tell me your characters got listed on the "scroll of memories". Let me know anyone else I missed on there, please. Those are some really old brain cells. :)
Remember how the size of a wedding in GS2 was how many crashes it caused?
The other spells you chanted.
"anaku dingir" ... I think was the web spell.
There was a "chalza" in something, I forget! eeeks.
A few of these old spells you'll still find sprinkled among the documentation for GSIV, I have found. It's a warm feeling every time I see something that old remembered and honored quietly. I don't know which GMs we have to thank for that, but I find it special.
I have a box of ...stuff... from the GS2 reunion held in SoCal after GS2 was closed and GS3 was open. I think it includes a few printed copies of the TownCrier newsletter. That was a great time, too.
I know where the box is, I just have not had the courage to open it up in well over a decade.
I've been posting some few scraps I have found in odd parts of archives from old computers at my blog:
http://www.thebardess.com/category/stories/gs2/
Tell me your characters got listed on the "scroll of memories". Let me know anyone else I missed on there, please. Those are some really old brain cells. :)
Remember how the size of a wedding in GS2 was how many crashes it caused?
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Fusion
05/27/2016 11:51 AM CDT
I didn't see either of my characters or my wife's character on the The Scroll of Memories, but I do remember Haakaan, the deep well of a mage. Haakaan loaned me an enchanted sword a few time so I could hunt the magic immune demeon (the only thing left in the game I could get experience from before I left). I remember that Nancy, the player of Haakaan, had at least one Gemstone get together in NYC (probably in 1989 if my memory is correct).
I definitely need to dig up that box... lot of memories there.
My GS2 rogue once stole a rolled up newspaper and a portrait from the rogues guild. The newspaper was the object of a bet I had made with my now wife, the portrait was a cool item where you could view anyone in the lands and then step through the portrait to where they were.
Oh, and fusion. :-)
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
I definitely need to dig up that box... lot of memories there.
My GS2 rogue once stole a rolled up newspaper and a portrait from the rogues guild. The newspaper was the object of a bet I had made with my now wife, the portrait was a cool item where you could view anyone in the lands and then step through the portrait to where they were.
Oh, and fusion. :-)
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
