I feel like the horse with the carrot dangling from a stick just out of reach.... I'd forgotten how frustrating this part was when going through fletching.... but at least that had shorter RTs....
Seriously, do GMs sit in the shadows watching us learn this and snatch away "aha" moments before they can show up on our screen so the only ones we get are the ones they don't see in time?
At least this will be two levels I won't have to hunt chimera and necrotic snakes with my warrior.... four by the time I master a weapon as well as crafting.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
OM1E5GA
GHOSTRAVER
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/02/2017 07:56 PM CDT
Be glad, I'm level 54 and almost done with my first weapon type. It's a drop in the bucket at this point it seems.
LORD-FRORIN
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/03/2017 01:52 PM CDT
Forgetting the frustration is why we keep doing it!
OM1E5GA
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/04/2017 09:43 AM CDT
It wouldn't be so bad that it takes so long to master if what you make before Mastering was worth using. Unfortunately, the only worth while products are the ones you make after Mastering.
If the artisan skills ever get a review, I hope they make it more like guild skills where you can make good use of it along the way rather then having to grind through it to start making desirable products. I'd have never mastered Lock Mastery if it was like the guild skills....
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
If the artisan skills ever get a review, I hope they make it more like guild skills where you can make good use of it along the way rather then having to grind through it to start making desirable products. I'd have never mastered Lock Mastery if it was like the guild skills....
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
OM1E5GA
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/04/2017 09:45 AM CDT
gggrrr.... derned lack of an edit button.... that lask bit should be: "if it was like the artisan skills"
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/07/2017 05:37 PM CDT
>> It wouldn't be so bad that it takes so long to master if what you make before Mastering was worth using.
I think part of the issue with forging is the player perception of value. You can, in fact, make a better weapon than one you can buy off the shelf before mastering the forging skill. I'll additionally add that there is a small market value for elegant (aka hefty) weapons.
-- Robert
I think part of the issue with forging is the player perception of value. You can, in fact, make a better weapon than one you can buy off the shelf before mastering the forging skill. I'll additionally add that there is a small market value for elegant (aka hefty) weapons.
-- Robert
KRAKII
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/08/2017 08:20 AM CDT
And once again, it comes back to "You Only Need One Weapon." (Okay, some times more than one, cold for the fire creatures/fire for the cold creatures, and a Blessable one, and maybe a backup when you're hunting where they can disarm.)
But generally speaking, nobody needs more weapons. They've got one. Or as many as four, as above.
Forging's mechanics, as they are now, would be just dandy... if people were still replacing a weapon about every month, as we used to.
But generally speaking, nobody needs more weapons. They've got one. Or as many as four, as above.
Forging's mechanics, as they are now, would be just dandy... if people were still replacing a weapon about every month, as we used to.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/08/2017 09:01 AM CDT
>> Forging's mechanics, as they are now, would be just dandy... if people were still replacing a weapon about every month, as we used to.
Forging mechanics might be dandy then (by your definition) but the game would suck (by my definition). Awesome weapons are too few and far between or take many years to create at great expense. You need to balance the whole equation for which I haven't seen a great solution offered around as yet.
-- Robert
Forging mechanics might be dandy then (by your definition) but the game would suck (by my definition). Awesome weapons are too few and far between or take many years to create at great expense. You need to balance the whole equation for which I haven't seen a great solution offered around as yet.
-- Robert
OM1E5GA
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/08/2017 09:39 AM CDT
< You need to balance the whole equation for which I haven't seen a great solution offered around as yet.>
If weapons were changed to allow different parts such as grips, guards, etc to be added, changed, or removed, it would open up forging to gain different perks at different thresholds.
Even if it was just possible with forged weapons, it could open up a lot of possibilities. Different leathers used to wrap the handle would prolly be mostly aesthetic, but different woods in the handle could affect the enchant. Weapons with guards or pommels could have them replaced with various metals (possibly destroying the old one in the process) to give them different flares or make them enchantable depending on what's being hunted. If replaceable parts of the weapon were made to degrade over time, it would allow for more powerful materials to be released by merchants or for the forging skill it's self to make the parts more powerful then normal....
Starchitin (saw that post right after playing a few hours of Dragon Age: Inquisition)
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
If weapons were changed to allow different parts such as grips, guards, etc to be added, changed, or removed, it would open up forging to gain different perks at different thresholds.
Even if it was just possible with forged weapons, it could open up a lot of possibilities. Different leathers used to wrap the handle would prolly be mostly aesthetic, but different woods in the handle could affect the enchant. Weapons with guards or pommels could have them replaced with various metals (possibly destroying the old one in the process) to give them different flares or make them enchantable depending on what's being hunted. If replaceable parts of the weapon were made to degrade over time, it would allow for more powerful materials to be released by merchants or for the forging skill it's self to make the parts more powerful then normal....
Starchitin (saw that post right after playing a few hours of Dragon Age: Inquisition)
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/08/2017 10:27 AM CDT
I was speaking directly to Krakii's (on-going) plug for weapon breakage to be re-instated across the board.
I like the suggestions you made for enhancing forging even further:
>> Different leathers used to wrap the handle would prolly be mostly aesthetic,
I would love to be able to further customize weapons via the forging system and maybe this would add additional pre-mastery value to the skill in being able to make interesting looking weapons. Additional ideas would be adding gems to the pommel, etching basic designs into the blade,
>> but different woods in the handle could affect the enchant.
Similar to making the weapon out of different base metals? Or do you mean as an additive property? I'd probably go with keeping it decorative but allow it to be added after the weapon is completed vs. requiring you to use rare woods to try and get that perfect piece.
>> Weapons with guards or pommels could have them replaced with various metals (possibly destroying the old one in the process) to give them different flares or make them enchantable depending on what's being hunted.
You sort of have this ability in choosing the metal to make your weapon out of (flaring property of the metal). Being able to swap out flares on a weapon via forging seems a bit overkill but an interesting idea to explore further.
>> If replaceable parts of the weapon were made to degrade over time, it would allow for more powerful materials to be released by merchants or for the forging skill it's self to make the parts more powerful then normal....
I'm wondering if we couldn't come up with some different boosts outside of elemental flares (which I feel should be based on the metal or something accomplished via 925-enchanting or other wizard spells). Adding a temporary mechanical flare that degrades / needs to be maintained might be fun (and seems somewhat appropriate). DF and AVD are covered via weapon quality but maybe the forger could add an additional temp boost to DF or AVD via some forging technique? Also what about a weapon chain or grip feature that made it harder to disarm the weapon? What other features could be added via forging that might fit in?
-- Robert
I like the suggestions you made for enhancing forging even further:
>> Different leathers used to wrap the handle would prolly be mostly aesthetic,
I would love to be able to further customize weapons via the forging system and maybe this would add additional pre-mastery value to the skill in being able to make interesting looking weapons. Additional ideas would be adding gems to the pommel, etching basic designs into the blade,
>> but different woods in the handle could affect the enchant.
Similar to making the weapon out of different base metals? Or do you mean as an additive property? I'd probably go with keeping it decorative but allow it to be added after the weapon is completed vs. requiring you to use rare woods to try and get that perfect piece.
>> Weapons with guards or pommels could have them replaced with various metals (possibly destroying the old one in the process) to give them different flares or make them enchantable depending on what's being hunted.
You sort of have this ability in choosing the metal to make your weapon out of (flaring property of the metal). Being able to swap out flares on a weapon via forging seems a bit overkill but an interesting idea to explore further.
>> If replaceable parts of the weapon were made to degrade over time, it would allow for more powerful materials to be released by merchants or for the forging skill it's self to make the parts more powerful then normal....
I'm wondering if we couldn't come up with some different boosts outside of elemental flares (which I feel should be based on the metal or something accomplished via 925-enchanting or other wizard spells). Adding a temporary mechanical flare that degrades / needs to be maintained might be fun (and seems somewhat appropriate). DF and AVD are covered via weapon quality but maybe the forger could add an additional temp boost to DF or AVD via some forging technique? Also what about a weapon chain or grip feature that made it harder to disarm the weapon? What other features could be added via forging that might fit in?
-- Robert
OM1E5GA
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/08/2017 11:01 AM CDT
<Similar to making the weapon out of different base metals? Or do you mean as an additive property? I'd probably go with keeping it decorative but allow it to be added after the weapon is completed vs. requiring you to use rare woods to try and get that perfect piece.>
Well the way weapons sold at merchants tend to work is that they have the enchant of the highest enchant metal/wood in their description, with the other adding whatever other properties it has (flares/weighting/etc). I was thinking it would be the same. So if you had forged a drakar sword and added a Kakore handle it would become a +10 fire flaring sword, or you could add a rhimar guard to a vultite sword for a +20 cold flaring sword.
Not sure how having two different flaring metals on the same weapons would be worked out or if it was just not allowed. If the guards/handles/etc degraded over time maybe just require more forging skill to be able to do it and/or make the part degrade faster....
<You sort of have this ability in choosing the metal to make your weapon out of (flaring property of the metal). Being able to swap out flares on a weapon via forging seems a bit overkill but an interesting idea to explore further.>
It would be useful for warriors or paladins that have bonded to their weapons. In addition, if the current mechanics for a "perfect" weapon were retained, folk wouldn't have to spend so much time trying to craft new perfect weapons out of metal they got from the slab generators or merchants if they didn't want to.... just craft a part and add it to the perfect weapon you already made.
<I'm wondering if we couldn't come up with some different boosts outside of elemental flares >
That was the idea.... that it would allow for more existing and new perks to be made more widely available. We've been told for almost two decades at least that the reason more powerful stuff isn't released widely is cause once it's in the game it never (or rarely) goes away. When enhansives were released, they were made to degrade over time so it could be something everyone could enjoy... and arrows/bolts sold at merchants often have better flares then other weapons would because they're regularly lost or can be made to break randomly.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Well the way weapons sold at merchants tend to work is that they have the enchant of the highest enchant metal/wood in their description, with the other adding whatever other properties it has (flares/weighting/etc). I was thinking it would be the same. So if you had forged a drakar sword and added a Kakore handle it would become a +10 fire flaring sword, or you could add a rhimar guard to a vultite sword for a +20 cold flaring sword.
Not sure how having two different flaring metals on the same weapons would be worked out or if it was just not allowed. If the guards/handles/etc degraded over time maybe just require more forging skill to be able to do it and/or make the part degrade faster....
<You sort of have this ability in choosing the metal to make your weapon out of (flaring property of the metal). Being able to swap out flares on a weapon via forging seems a bit overkill but an interesting idea to explore further.>
It would be useful for warriors or paladins that have bonded to their weapons. In addition, if the current mechanics for a "perfect" weapon were retained, folk wouldn't have to spend so much time trying to craft new perfect weapons out of metal they got from the slab generators or merchants if they didn't want to.... just craft a part and add it to the perfect weapon you already made.
<I'm wondering if we couldn't come up with some different boosts outside of elemental flares >
That was the idea.... that it would allow for more existing and new perks to be made more widely available. We've been told for almost two decades at least that the reason more powerful stuff isn't released widely is cause once it's in the game it never (or rarely) goes away. When enhansives were released, they were made to degrade over time so it could be something everyone could enjoy... and arrows/bolts sold at merchants often have better flares then other weapons would because they're regularly lost or can be made to break randomly.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
KRAKII
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/08/2017 02:09 PM CDT
"Krakii's (on-going) plug for weapon breakage to be re-instated across the board." -- Middle-Coast Robert
At this point, I don't seriously see any realistic hope that the GMs would bite the (really, really big) bullet and turn on any kind of breakage. Had it been done nearly twenty years ago--Banthis hosted a seminar on the Economy & Breakage at the 1999 'Con, at the Henry VIII--then most characters extant now would not know anything different. It would have been a tremendous shock, but only once. (That's actually true, no matter WHEN they turn it on... So I can still hope. :) Everyone joining after that would only know the world of Breakage, anyhow.
.
However, the fact that it would make a tremendous difference in how weapons are viewed is undeniable. That was all I was pointing out.
At this point, I don't seriously see any realistic hope that the GMs would bite the (really, really big) bullet and turn on any kind of breakage. Had it been done nearly twenty years ago--Banthis hosted a seminar on the Economy & Breakage at the 1999 'Con, at the Henry VIII--then most characters extant now would not know anything different. It would have been a tremendous shock, but only once. (That's actually true, no matter WHEN they turn it on... So I can still hope. :) Everyone joining after that would only know the world of Breakage, anyhow.
.
However, the fact that it would make a tremendous difference in how weapons are viewed is undeniable. That was all I was pointing out.
LUXELLE
Re: Those last 15 ranks
05/08/2017 03:33 PM CDT
> Everyone joining after that would only know the world of Breakage, anyhow.
You can go play DragonRealms for an Elanthia where weapons and armor take damage if you want to... (with the resulting deteriorating performance and all).
There, it doesn't even take a GM to make your dreams come true! :)
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
You can go play DragonRealms for an Elanthia where weapons and armor take damage if you want to... (with the resulting deteriorating performance and all).
There, it doesn't even take a GM to make your dreams come true! :)
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
