Hello! I am a new player. I appreciate every little thing in the game and, while i understand that you need players to pay to help you to maintain everything, i need to comment a few things.
Sadly mud's aren't so popular anymore, and all of us know why. I know at least 4 muds that can convert to pay to play, but don't. Why? because at the mudding community, it is hard to get players. Theire like GemStoneIV and DR. very, very good. While they don't ask the players to pay, they ask them to donate if they can. And many do, because they get a few bonuses. I can't pay. i'm honest, i cant pay monthly 14$.
But i love the game. Sadly, i feel pressured to pay, because if i don't, it will be very hard for me. I cant carry more than 100 items. That's ok and understandable, but i should at least have access to a locker that can hold at least 200 items, not more. It's like getting dropped in a city without homes where to place my items.
carrying silver encumbers a f2p character twice more than a p2p one.
prices when shopping aren't favorable for f2p players.
I don't understand this feature.
if you want roleplay you can't have something like this, simple by the fact that a shopkeeper doesn't know you're using a f2p account, looking at it from the roleplay perspective.
experience is harder to get and becomes more with every day in game.
just there's no good reason for that, in my opinion. We should have the same chances. The normal chances for everyone, and higher for the ones that pay.
I also think that everyone should be able to craft, restricting it for the ones who can pay is saddening.
I'm not writing this to annoy people, it is just my honest opinion about this subject
ANNELLIN
GHOSTRAVER
Re: a new player's opinion about F2P
06/10/2017 09:37 AM CDT
The pricing structure in this game is punitive, has been ever since it converted off F2P on AOL days. Sorry to say, that's probably never going to change. It's an incredibly niche market, which also means being able to aggressively price your product to fulfill that niche. From a business standpoint, the hope is that the niche doesn't shrink you out of your ability to earn income.
KRAKII
Re: a new player's opinion about F2P
06/11/2017 11:54 AM CDT
"The pricing structure in this game is punitive, has been ever since it converted off F2P on AOL days." -- GhostRaver
It never was free to play on AOL, unless you were one of the (honestly) griefers who was using nothing but the free disk accounts; it's because of them that so many mechanics (for low level, and death) changed. Higher levels were less affected, since it was hard to get to those levels in a month or less (even with 750 or 1000 free hours).
At that time, best possible case, you were paying your monthly AOL fee. Now, you are paying your monthly Simutronics fee. It's exactly the same (though the dollar amount probably changed).
Now, if you want to talk expensive--it wasn't punitive--then let's talk about the "car payment" amounts that people were paying on the hourly basis.
I'm sorry, but Simutronics made the initial pricing extremely easy to access, and has only increased the monthly fee... once? I can remember one, not sure about any more. They've even reduced the fee for Platinum, and now are giving back 10% in SimuCoins.
It never was free to play on AOL, unless you were one of the (honestly) griefers who was using nothing but the free disk accounts; it's because of them that so many mechanics (for low level, and death) changed. Higher levels were less affected, since it was hard to get to those levels in a month or less (even with 750 or 1000 free hours).
At that time, best possible case, you were paying your monthly AOL fee. Now, you are paying your monthly Simutronics fee. It's exactly the same (though the dollar amount probably changed).
Now, if you want to talk expensive--it wasn't punitive--then let's talk about the "car payment" amounts that people were paying on the hourly basis.
I'm sorry, but Simutronics made the initial pricing extremely easy to access, and has only increased the monthly fee... once? I can remember one, not sure about any more. They've even reduced the fee for Platinum, and now are giving back 10% in SimuCoins.
LUXELLE
Re: a new player's opinion about F2P
06/11/2017 03:02 PM CDT
How about we just call those Glory Days on AOL not exactly free ...
But there were no hourly charges. It was included in your AOL sub.
On GEnie, we were still paying by the hour. Plus our monthly charge. I can't remember how those monthly sub prices compared, tho.
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
But there were no hourly charges. It was included in your AOL sub.
On GEnie, we were still paying by the hour. Plus our monthly charge. I can't remember how those monthly sub prices compared, tho.
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
GHOSTRAVER
Re: a new player's opinion about F2P
06/11/2017 03:25 PM CDT
The typical "uphill in the snow both ways" argument.
Since the game left AOL, as far as I can remember, it has had a tiered pricing structure (standard, premium, plat). On top of that, it charges ADDITIONAL fees for "events" for all tiers. A monthly sub in gaming is meant to allow for continued development, support infrastructure, maintenance, and upgrades. Mixing that with additional micro-transactions AND special extra money-grabs is about as close as you get to punitive. The fact that they are only just now giving out free game currency with a subscription this late shows me that Simutronics is VERY slow to adapt and learn from pricing structures within the industry that has evolved from seeing what people find palatable, and what they do not. Just because someone people were spending "car-payment" levels of money, doesn't change any of this.
Since the game left AOL, as far as I can remember, it has had a tiered pricing structure (standard, premium, plat). On top of that, it charges ADDITIONAL fees for "events" for all tiers. A monthly sub in gaming is meant to allow for continued development, support infrastructure, maintenance, and upgrades. Mixing that with additional micro-transactions AND special extra money-grabs is about as close as you get to punitive. The fact that they are only just now giving out free game currency with a subscription this late shows me that Simutronics is VERY slow to adapt and learn from pricing structures within the industry that has evolved from seeing what people find palatable, and what they do not. Just because someone people were spending "car-payment" levels of money, doesn't change any of this.
VALUSIA
Re: a new player's opinion about F2P
06/12/2017 06:39 AM CDT
Hey man, thanks for trying out the game. We would love to keep you, but I understand your position. It's hard, very hard, to understand the billing side without coming along this long journey of "Gemstoning" from the beginning.
The main reason that you're not 'getting it' is probably because you're a newer generation of MMOer and Gemstone was a first mover. It's staying power and ability to charge so much money is based on player relationships and investment over decades of time. Without this pre-existing scaffolding the rest of the game would make absolutely no sense in terms of the money aspect.
My only recommendation to you is to try out DragonRealms. It's similar to Gemstone and in fact is more advanced as it was Gemstone's successor, but the human to human interaction might be less. Overall, DragonRealms is a great game with a couple of major flaws compared to Gemstone. But you can unlock 95% of it for 6~7 bucks a month. So, give it a shot.
KRAKII
Re: a new player's opinion about F2P
06/12/2017 10:08 AM CDT
"A monthly sub in gaming is meant to allow for continued development, support infrastructure, maintenance, and upgrades." -- GhostRaver
All of which does, in fact, happen, due to those monthly fees. Otherwise there wouldn't be the elemental confluence or Sunfist or Monks or Elven Nations or Aelotoi or Paladins or...
.
"Mixing that with additional micro-transactions AND special extra money-grabs is about as close as you get to punitive." -- ibid
They are also extremely close to two other things: either a) "making more profit"--something that is HIGHLY regarded in a capitalist society as A Good Thing--or b) allowing for more of that stuff up in the first quote: development & infrastructure & maintenance & upgrades & hiring and so on.
All of which does, in fact, happen, due to those monthly fees. Otherwise there wouldn't be the elemental confluence or Sunfist or Monks or Elven Nations or Aelotoi or Paladins or...
.
"Mixing that with additional micro-transactions AND special extra money-grabs is about as close as you get to punitive." -- ibid
They are also extremely close to two other things: either a) "making more profit"--something that is HIGHLY regarded in a capitalist society as A Good Thing--or b) allowing for more of that stuff up in the first quote: development & infrastructure & maintenance & upgrades & hiring and so on.
GHOSTRAVER
Re: a new player's opinion about F2P
06/12/2017 12:15 PM CDT
> "All of which does, in fact, happen, due to those monthly fees. Otherwise there wouldn't be the elemental confluence or Sunfist or Monks or Elven Nations or Aelotoi or Paladins or..."
Which I agree with, and why I subscribe, and this is probably one of my longest stretches of playing. That said, I started trying out premium a couple months back, and the ROI isn't there as far as I can tell, and will probably drop down. Continuous improvement is meant to bring about the things you mentioned in a timely manner as well. Simuntronics is not timely about releases.
> "They are also extremely close to two other things: either a) "making more profit"--something that is HIGHLY regarded in a capitalist society as A Good Thing--or b) allowing for more of that stuff up in the first quote: development & infrastructure & maintenance & upgrades & hiring and so on."
I'm all for turning a profit, I approve of capitalistic endeavors. But something that is more HIGHLY regarded in a consumer society as "A Good Thing", is getting what you pay for. You will not find many people of younger generations (late Gen X and younger) who view this game as that by any stretch. The niche is very small. Example: How long ago did people start getting really worried about the populations here? One of the recent threads in appreciation was the higher player count. People like to see other people enjoying the things they enjoy, doubly so when it's a community/shared/social experience. Population means money, which means the game stays up.
The long and short of what I'm trying to say is this: there's a reason the pricing structure that Simutronics uses isn't widely employed throughout the industry. It's not successful long-term. You see two of the three options employed, but never all three. Maybe Simutronics will be able to keep it up because of the long-term entrenchment of the player base. When you've got a customer hooked, it's easy to keep squeezing for money. My concern is that eventually, they will run out of people to squeeze, and the ones that have been around, won't be here forever to help keep the lights on. I want to see a sustainable, truly long-term pricing model used. I would honestly love to see another game that has implemented the three income models (Subscription, "Premium" Tiers, micro-transactions), and stuck around to see it's benefits, because I can't think of one.
Which I agree with, and why I subscribe, and this is probably one of my longest stretches of playing. That said, I started trying out premium a couple months back, and the ROI isn't there as far as I can tell, and will probably drop down. Continuous improvement is meant to bring about the things you mentioned in a timely manner as well. Simuntronics is not timely about releases.
> "They are also extremely close to two other things: either a) "making more profit"--something that is HIGHLY regarded in a capitalist society as A Good Thing--or b) allowing for more of that stuff up in the first quote: development & infrastructure & maintenance & upgrades & hiring and so on."
I'm all for turning a profit, I approve of capitalistic endeavors. But something that is more HIGHLY regarded in a consumer society as "A Good Thing", is getting what you pay for. You will not find many people of younger generations (late Gen X and younger) who view this game as that by any stretch. The niche is very small. Example: How long ago did people start getting really worried about the populations here? One of the recent threads in appreciation was the higher player count. People like to see other people enjoying the things they enjoy, doubly so when it's a community/shared/social experience. Population means money, which means the game stays up.
The long and short of what I'm trying to say is this: there's a reason the pricing structure that Simutronics uses isn't widely employed throughout the industry. It's not successful long-term. You see two of the three options employed, but never all three. Maybe Simutronics will be able to keep it up because of the long-term entrenchment of the player base. When you've got a customer hooked, it's easy to keep squeezing for money. My concern is that eventually, they will run out of people to squeeze, and the ones that have been around, won't be here forever to help keep the lights on. I want to see a sustainable, truly long-term pricing model used. I would honestly love to see another game that has implemented the three income models (Subscription, "Premium" Tiers, micro-transactions), and stuck around to see it's benefits, because I can't think of one.
KRAKII
Re: a new player's opinion about F2P
06/12/2017 01:00 PM CDT
And those folks are much more likely to start off as F2P, and thereby get what they pay for it. (Probably a lot more, actually; there's a lot of fun low-level content.)
Should they then want to expand their possibilities, they will need to either pony up some cash (for SimuCoins, to enable some of the options) or more cash (for a month-to-month subscription).
.
I guess I'm coming at it from the standpoint of seeing new players as potential immigrants to a new land here for the long haul, rather than tourists who have "done Elanthia" because they happened to buy from both the Starbucks AND the Dunkin' Donuts at the airport here.
We're not a flash-in-the-pan game, where you can play for a month and be done or at-cap or whatever. That's our "breaking in" period, to make sure the boots fit well. :)
Should they then want to expand their possibilities, they will need to either pony up some cash (for SimuCoins, to enable some of the options) or more cash (for a month-to-month subscription).
.
I guess I'm coming at it from the standpoint of seeing new players as potential immigrants to a new land here for the long haul, rather than tourists who have "done Elanthia" because they happened to buy from both the Starbucks AND the Dunkin' Donuts at the airport here.
We're not a flash-in-the-pan game, where you can play for a month and be done or at-cap or whatever. That's our "breaking in" period, to make sure the boots fit well. :)
