AZRAIL
1117 ?
01/25/2012 03:48 PM CST
How does empathic link work? If there is two trolls in the same room and I cast 1117 on one of them will that troll I cast it on tke damage if the one I didn't cast it on gets hurt? Or do I have to cast this on both trolls to establish the link? If one of the trolls linked runs out of the room will it still take damage?
Just curious never played around with this spell because I never rally understood the mechanics of it.
THROGG
Re: 1117 ?
01/25/2012 06:58 PM CST
It's a useless spell that is only good for party tricks. Yes, you have to cast it on every critter you want to link, and if the first one dies the link is broken.
DRTAGNJR1
Re: 1117 ?
03/13/2012 11:23 AM CDT
It is not useless, but it is not useful for solo hunting really and is more a support spell for others rather than something you would use normally at like level with creatures.
If you hunt with others, it can be fun and useful. You DO have to link to each like creature that you want to have affected, so if your group kills things fast it is not of any real use to you, but if it might take several hits per creature by the group/hunting partner, and there are two or better three or more... then it works well in that your hunting partner or you stunning or Unbalancing one affects all... its great with trolls since it helps counter their natural healing ability with the constant hits.
I have used it most often in minotaurs, krags, and stone troll/giants since it keeps all of the creatures off balance as you have them linked.
They continue to take damage if the leave the room AND if the one that runs off is hit by another hunter the one in your room is affected as well.
Crit kills do not transfer. Killing blows on the one you hit does not transfer I don't think.
The secondary casts are at less mana than the initial cast but do not recall specifically what it is.
The Drakes Mountaineer
THROGG
Re: 1117 ?
03/13/2012 01:15 PM CDT
>>if your group kills things fast it is not of any real use to you,<<
There are a couple of problems with the practical use of this spell. The first one arises with the situation you mentioned; in high level areas, it is usually wise to kill off the critters as soon as possible before they uncork their own AOE spells or maneuver attacks. It just takes too long to link all the targets.
Then there is the mana cost:efficiency factor; first cast costs 8 mana plus a variable amount depending on the critters level. I have not used this spell often enough to have even noted if additional casts are cheaper but it hardly matters. You are going to pay more than 16 mana to link even 2 level 80 critters. You are better off using a single cast of sympathy, which hits many targets instantaneously, causing them to attack each other.
Linking three critters takes a minimum of 10 seconds, assuming you have a bunch of macro commands set up and hit the keys lightning fast; in practice it may take longer. In swarms, it is often hard to keep track what has or has not been linked ... gosh, did I link the third troll in the room? In areas where critters may wander in and out of rooms, if they wander back in you may not be able to tell whether they have already been linked.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
There are a couple of problems with the practical use of this spell. The first one arises with the situation you mentioned; in high level areas, it is usually wise to kill off the critters as soon as possible before they uncork their own AOE spells or maneuver attacks. It just takes too long to link all the targets.
Then there is the mana cost:efficiency factor; first cast costs 8 mana plus a variable amount depending on the critters level. I have not used this spell often enough to have even noted if additional casts are cheaper but it hardly matters. You are going to pay more than 16 mana to link even 2 level 80 critters. You are better off using a single cast of sympathy, which hits many targets instantaneously, causing them to attack each other.
Linking three critters takes a minimum of 10 seconds, assuming you have a bunch of macro commands set up and hit the keys lightning fast; in practice it may take longer. In swarms, it is often hard to keep track what has or has not been linked ... gosh, did I link the third troll in the room? In areas where critters may wander in and out of rooms, if they wander back in you may not be able to tell whether they have already been linked.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
THROGG
Re: 1117 ?
03/13/2012 02:03 PM CDT
Oh, and then of course there is the annoying factor that if the first critter you used to start the link dies, all the others become unlinked. Bummer.
Upon reflection, if the spell worked to link ALL of a given type of creature in the room with one spell cast, that would make it a lot more attractive, to me at least.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Upon reflection, if the spell worked to link ALL of a given type of creature in the room with one spell cast, that would make it a lot more attractive, to me at least.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
JAKKAL
Re: 1117 ?
03/13/2012 04:52 PM CDT
>>It is not useless, but it is not useful for solo hunting really and is more a support spell for others rather than something you would use normally at like level with creatures. ---Drtagnjr1
That's my definition of a party trick, which is exactly what Throgg called it.
Speaking about 1117, I always found it at odds with the rest of the Empath spell list. All of our spells either deal with self control, or linking ourself to another creature(s). Empathic link is the only one where we're not actually involved in the link. We link two other things together, and leave ourselves out if it. (Herb Production is another weird one, but I realize that spell came from another list and had to get shoe-horned somewhere.)
I always wanted Empathic link to act as a reactive spell. Something similar to Cloak of Shadows. Instead of triggering at attack spell when you get struck, it would try to inflict the same amount of damage you just took to whatever was striking you. Eye for an eye style. :)
---Mirrami
That's my definition of a party trick, which is exactly what Throgg called it.
Speaking about 1117, I always found it at odds with the rest of the Empath spell list. All of our spells either deal with self control, or linking ourself to another creature(s). Empathic link is the only one where we're not actually involved in the link. We link two other things together, and leave ourselves out if it. (Herb Production is another weird one, but I realize that spell came from another list and had to get shoe-horned somewhere.)
I always wanted Empathic link to act as a reactive spell. Something similar to Cloak of Shadows. Instead of triggering at attack spell when you get struck, it would try to inflict the same amount of damage you just took to whatever was striking you. Eye for an eye style. :)
---Mirrami
THROGG
Re: 1117 ?
03/13/2012 06:21 PM CDT
>>Something similar to Cloak of Shadows. Instead of triggering at attack spell when you get struck, it would try to inflict the same amount of damage you just took to whatever was striking you. Eye for an eye style. :)<<
Ooooh! Make it so!
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Ooooh! Make it so!
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
THROGG
Re: 1117 ?
03/13/2012 06:31 PM CDT
>>That's my definition of a party trick, which is exactly what Throgg called it.<<
Heeeh! Well, after I tried it a few times, the only use I found for it was when taking younger folks on a group hunt. I'd cast sympathy on a couple of critters to keep them occupied, (or bind if there were only a few of them) then link them as fast as I could, and then tell everyone to whack away.
All the wee ones would go "Ooooh!" and the party was on! Party on, dudes!
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Heeeh! Well, after I tried it a few times, the only use I found for it was when taking younger folks on a group hunt. I'd cast sympathy on a couple of critters to keep them occupied, (or bind if there were only a few of them) then link them as fast as I could, and then tell everyone to whack away.
All the wee ones would go "Ooooh!" and the party was on! Party on, dudes!
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
DRTAGNJR1
Re: 1117 ?
03/14/2012 12:01 AM CDT
Oh I don't deny it is a fun gimmick spell. And as I said its like level usage for an empath is less than efficient. But just ask my warrior hunting companion how great it is and she will go on and on. Is there a better mechanic to it sure. But as it stands, I can't call it useless, just also would never call it efficient for personal hunting.
Also the first time I have heard that the first linked critter disables the rest.. I have used it pretty extensively compared to what it sounds like you have and I have never seen that.
One twist that would make it have more potential is the ability to link different creatures in one Link.. then if you are in an area with multiple ranges of levels.. linking a higher level creature to one ten levels less would allow folks to better 'damage' the older creature through the link and potentially keep something like that from being able to regularly attack by linked stuns and knockdowns.
The Drakes Mountaineer
THROGG
Re: 1117 ?
03/14/2012 11:28 AM CDT
>>Also the first time I have heard that the first linked critter disables the rest.. I have used it pretty extensively compared to what it sounds like you have and I have never seen that.<<
Admittedly, I have only used it a few times, and it's been years and 50+ levels ago. I could swear that's what happened though. Mind you, it's possible that the spell's mechanics have been changed in the interim. However, here's another problem I just discovered. Apparently, once a linkage has been established and one of the critters has been damaged, you can't add any further critters to the linkage. No idea why. In this case the bottom 2 orcs were linked (I froze them to keep them from wandering off before I could link them). I hit the second orc with 1101; then a third orc wandered in. I couldn't link!
>>A lesser orc tramps in!
> target orc
> incant 1117
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lesser orc.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a lesser orc.
CS: +452 - TD: +18 + CvA: +19 + d100: +50 == +503
Warding failed!
You concentrate vigorously but are unable to form a link with a lesser orc.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
> look
[Melgorehn's Valley, Grasslands]
Close off to the west, the Reach looms. This is the back face of the mountain, seldom seen by most. It rises out of the grassland to touch the sky, the upheaval of the rocks evident in the pristine mountainside. The flattened paths through the grass go no further west, instead leading off to the east, south, and southeast. You also see a lesser orc, a lesser orc that appears to be frozen in place, a lesser orc that appears to be frozen in place and some full leather.
Obvious paths: northeast, east, southeast, south<<
Also, the linkage apparently goes only in one direction; the attack has to be directed toward the first creature in the link (which would be a good reason to have changed the problem with the link being broken if the lead target died, I presume). Here I deliberately targeted the second orc in the linkage; the first orc took no damage.
>>[Melgorehn's Valley, Grasslands]
Close off to the west, the Reach looms. This is the back face of the mountain, seldom seen by most. It rises out of the grassland to touch the sky, the upheaval of the rocks evident in the pristine mountainside. The flattened paths through the grass go no further west, instead leading off to the east, south, and southeast. You also see a lesser orc that appears to be frozen in place, a lesser orc that appears to be frozen in place and some full leather.
Obvious paths: northeast, east, southeast, south
> target other orc
You are now targeting a lesser orc.
> incant 1101
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Heal...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lesser orc.
CS: +452 - TD: +18 + CvA: +19 + d100: +27 == +480
Warding failed!
A brief tremor ripples across the orc's skin, leaving a faint beading of scarlet in its wake.
... 62 points of damage!
A lesser orc screams one last time and dies.
You twinge slightly as your Empathic Link to a lesser orc fades away.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.<<
All in all, this spell seems to need a significant amount of work to become a practical combat spell.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Admittedly, I have only used it a few times, and it's been years and 50+ levels ago. I could swear that's what happened though. Mind you, it's possible that the spell's mechanics have been changed in the interim. However, here's another problem I just discovered. Apparently, once a linkage has been established and one of the critters has been damaged, you can't add any further critters to the linkage. No idea why. In this case the bottom 2 orcs were linked (I froze them to keep them from wandering off before I could link them). I hit the second orc with 1101; then a third orc wandered in. I couldn't link!
>>A lesser orc tramps in!
> target orc
> incant 1117
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lesser orc.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a lesser orc.
CS: +452 - TD: +18 + CvA: +19 + d100: +50 == +503
Warding failed!
You concentrate vigorously but are unable to form a link with a lesser orc.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
> look
[Melgorehn's Valley, Grasslands]
Close off to the west, the Reach looms. This is the back face of the mountain, seldom seen by most. It rises out of the grassland to touch the sky, the upheaval of the rocks evident in the pristine mountainside. The flattened paths through the grass go no further west, instead leading off to the east, south, and southeast. You also see a lesser orc, a lesser orc that appears to be frozen in place, a lesser orc that appears to be frozen in place and some full leather.
Obvious paths: northeast, east, southeast, south<<
Also, the linkage apparently goes only in one direction; the attack has to be directed toward the first creature in the link (which would be a good reason to have changed the problem with the link being broken if the lead target died, I presume). Here I deliberately targeted the second orc in the linkage; the first orc took no damage.
>>[Melgorehn's Valley, Grasslands]
Close off to the west, the Reach looms. This is the back face of the mountain, seldom seen by most. It rises out of the grassland to touch the sky, the upheaval of the rocks evident in the pristine mountainside. The flattened paths through the grass go no further west, instead leading off to the east, south, and southeast. You also see a lesser orc that appears to be frozen in place, a lesser orc that appears to be frozen in place and some full leather.
Obvious paths: northeast, east, southeast, south
> target other orc
You are now targeting a lesser orc.
> incant 1101
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Heal...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lesser orc.
CS: +452 - TD: +18 + CvA: +19 + d100: +27 == +480
Warding failed!
A brief tremor ripples across the orc's skin, leaving a faint beading of scarlet in its wake.
... 62 points of damage!
A lesser orc screams one last time and dies.
You twinge slightly as your Empathic Link to a lesser orc fades away.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.<<
All in all, this spell seems to need a significant amount of work to become a practical combat spell.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
DRTAGNJR1
Re: 1117 ?
03/15/2012 05:14 PM CDT
Did some experimenting as well...
Below you can see me targetting a magus after the other magus and a warrior (out of the room) had been targetted.. and hitting the one that was linked last... damage reflected through to the other magus and the other warrior....
[Labyrinth, The Unending Path]
The path opens abruptly at a pair of staircases, each leading to a different section of the massive complex. Light streams through an open hole in the ceiling above, bringing with it a hint of fresh air. You also see a minotaur magus that appears stunned and a minotaur magus.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, east, southeast, south, southwest, west, northwest
>
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>prep 1117
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
>cast other mag
You gesture at a minotaur magus.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a minotaur magus.
CS: +455 - TD: +292 + CvA: +9 + d100: +79 == +251
Warding failed!
A faint thread of energy forms between you and a minotaur magus.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
A minotaur magus grabs a minotaur magus and drags her south.
>s
[Labyrinth, The Unending Path]
An unusual, softly glowing green fungus has rooted itself near the base of the wall, casting a dim light across the path. You also see a minotaur magus that appears stunned and a minotaur magus.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, east, southeast, south, southwest, west, northwest
>target other mag
You are now targeting a minotaur magus.
>incant 110
>
A minotaur magus grabs a minotaur magus and drags her southwest.
>
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Unbalance spell...
Your spell is ready.
You do not currently have a target.
>sw
[Labyrinth, The Unending Path]
Moisture glistens softly along the cave's walls, streaming slowly toward the rocky floor. You also see a minotaur magus that appears stunned and a minotaur magus.
Obvious exits: north, northeast, east, southeast, south, southwest, west, northwest
>incant 110
You gesture at a minotaur magus.
CS: +408 - TD: +299 + CvA: +9 + d100: +83 == +201
Warding failed!
... 45 points of damage!
The minotaur magus is thrown to the ground face first!
A very hard landing!
You sense ripples of wavering energy coalesce around a minotaur warrior's back. You also sense that 's back has been deeply lacerate for an additional 40 points of damage.
Ripples of wavering energy coalesce around a minotaur magus's back.
... 35 points of damage!
Back strike. Opponent writhes in pain.
It is knocked to the ground!
The minotaur magus is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Licks of ethereal blue flame surround a minotaur magus's hooves as she regains her footing once again.
>incant 110
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Unbalance spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a minotaur magus.
CS: +408 - TD: +299 + CvA: +9 + d100: +73 == +191
Warding failed!
... 35 points of damage!
Chest strike. Opponent knocked down stunned!
You sense ripples of wavering energy coalesce around a minotaur warrior's chest. You also sense that 's chest has been deeply lacerate for an additional 40 points of damage.
Ripples of wavering energy coalesce around a minotaur magus's chest.
... 40 points of damage!
Chest strike. Opponent knocked back and stunned!
It is knocked to the ground!
The minotaur magus is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Further testing established that killing the first doesn't end the Link. Linked damage does not appear to occur on killing blows to include crits.
The DRakes Mountaineer
THROGG
Re: 1117 ?
03/16/2012 11:04 AM CDT
>>Further testing established that killing the first doesn't end the Link. Linked damage does not appear to occur on killing blows to include crits.<<
Hmm, interesting; that may be why I had that impression the few times I used the spell. The first hit may have been some sort of killing critical hit, and when the others didn't take damage, I assumed the link had been nroken. Which is also a flaw then in the spell. The other linked critters down the line perhaps should not take the actual critical killing damage, but they should take the HP loss.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
Hmm, interesting; that may be why I had that impression the few times I used the spell. The first hit may have been some sort of killing critical hit, and when the others didn't take damage, I assumed the link had been nroken. Which is also a flaw then in the spell. The other linked critters down the line perhaps should not take the actual critical killing damage, but they should take the HP loss.
The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me
DRTAGNJR1
