So I was laying around dead on a new character the other day, just hangin out as one does when dead.. I was in a less-traveled area hoping someone would come by or be bored enough to locate a random unknown for a rescue. I couldn't help but think how silly it is, in this day and age and population of GS, that bodies can twitch, wail, laugh, etc, they have a soul still attached, they can talk aloud and whisper, yet they can't think out for help. I think it makes perfect sense, IC and OOC, to be able to use the amunet while dead.. Is there any possibility of this happening?
I realize there are avenues to get help IG(society symbols and pets come to mind) and out(lnet).. but for a new character or returning player who doesn't have the skillset or network of friends to look out for them yet, it seems that their only choice is relying on a third party(lich), and I can see it being quite frustrating without for those who choose not to use it. Just another suggestion how reliance on third parties can be lessened. I'm not sure how difficult the change would be from the back end, but I do think it's worth considering.
TIGGEREYE
DAID
Re: Thinking while dead
01/22/2015 08:47 PM CST
I've been asking for a feature like this...for a really long time.
In Platinum, the ESP system remains active while dead, although only in a passive sense so you can hear someone's thought if they are coming to rescue you. Unless anything changed since I was last in Plat, anyway. That feature I've specifically asked to be brought to Prime several times since we already know that it's been coded and approved for part of the GS world.
I would really like to see fully functional ESP when dead, though. It is seriously the number one reason remaining that LNet still serves an important purpose for me most of the time. There has been a lot of really neat work on the ESP system in the recent years, and this will be the nail in the coffin (har har).
I'd like to see basically two things:
1) Full ESP usage when dead
2) Changes to "bit the dust" messaging which indicate the realm and/or have a local/global setting that can be toggled.
(I also considered the idea to have "bit the dust" somewhere as a feed on the website...and someone found an old Twitter account for like "Lorminstra" or something that did that. That'd also be cool.)
I do really love the idea in the OP, but I feel like there is one or more power(s) that be which continually veto this for unstated reasons.
Maybe, like happened with the attitude on game secrets (since gswiki has some, but Solomon's attitude these days was that people know how to Google), this might change. People have chat clients, and there's lich. People can already basically do this with third party software, and the game itself is not gaining anything by not bringing this feature on board. At least, that's how I see it.
Another argument I might point out is that Locate is not quite what it once was. It used to be "look before you leap". But now-a-days there are bandits. And Locate usually won't see them because they are waiting to ambush you. ESP-while-dead could help deal with that in game.
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
In Platinum, the ESP system remains active while dead, although only in a passive sense so you can hear someone's thought if they are coming to rescue you. Unless anything changed since I was last in Plat, anyway. That feature I've specifically asked to be brought to Prime several times since we already know that it's been coded and approved for part of the GS world.
I would really like to see fully functional ESP when dead, though. It is seriously the number one reason remaining that LNet still serves an important purpose for me most of the time. There has been a lot of really neat work on the ESP system in the recent years, and this will be the nail in the coffin (har har).
I'd like to see basically two things:
1) Full ESP usage when dead
2) Changes to "bit the dust" messaging which indicate the realm and/or have a local/global setting that can be toggled.
(I also considered the idea to have "bit the dust" somewhere as a feed on the website...and someone found an old Twitter account for like "Lorminstra" or something that did that. That'd also be cool.)
I do really love the idea in the OP, but I feel like there is one or more power(s) that be which continually veto this for unstated reasons.
Maybe, like happened with the attitude on game secrets (since gswiki has some, but Solomon's attitude these days was that people know how to Google), this might change. People have chat clients, and there's lich. People can already basically do this with third party software, and the game itself is not gaining anything by not bringing this feature on board. At least, that's how I see it.
Another argument I might point out is that Locate is not quite what it once was. It used to be "look before you leap". But now-a-days there are bandits. And Locate usually won't see them because they are waiting to ambush you. ESP-while-dead could help deal with that in game.
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
DAID
Re: Thinking while dead
01/22/2015 08:54 PM CST
For what it's worth, I have a Voln-aligned paladin, who is a master of Voln.
I think I've never used Symbol of Need, and it's even included as a potential feature of my T4 Voln armor (I don't bother turning the feature on I don't think).
I can't recall the last time I saw a Symbol of Need either. It's about once or twice a year. Granted, I hang out in RR, but even so.
Point being, I'm not going to feel robbled of my precious society skill over this. Voln has a lot going for it in the same department anyway. (Self-LK, Symbol of Recall, Symbol of Dreams, Symbol of Renewal, ...)
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
I think I've never used Symbol of Need, and it's even included as a potential feature of my T4 Voln armor (I don't bother turning the feature on I don't think).
I can't recall the last time I saw a Symbol of Need either. It's about once or twice a year. Granted, I hang out in RR, but even so.
Point being, I'm not going to feel robbled of my precious society skill over this. Voln has a lot going for it in the same department anyway. (Self-LK, Symbol of Recall, Symbol of Dreams, Symbol of Renewal, ...)
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
KEITHOBAD
Re: Thinking while dead
01/22/2015 10:21 PM CST
This is probably an argument that has happened a few times before, I would also like this feature.
DAID
Re: Thinking while dead
01/23/2015 01:09 AM CST
>This is probably an argument that has happened a few times before, I would also like this feature.
I can't actually recall much 'argument' about this; oh wait...I'm arguing now...derp!
Sure we can imagine that some people in Voln might oppose this. Are there actual people making this claim?
I also really cannot recall seeing an NIR weigh in on the topic and say this or that reason it will or won't happen.
Mostly I just remember me begging a lot whenever the ESP topic comes up.
BEGGGING.
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
I can't actually recall much 'argument' about this; oh wait...I'm arguing now...derp!
Sure we can imagine that some people in Voln might oppose this. Are there actual people making this claim?
I also really cannot recall seeing an NIR weigh in on the topic and say this or that reason it will or won't happen.
Mostly I just remember me begging a lot whenever the ESP topic comes up.
BEGGGING.
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
RATHBONER
Re: Thinking while dead
01/23/2015 04:56 AM CST
>I can't recall the last time I saw a Symbol of Need either. It's about once or twice a year. Granted, I hang out in RR, but even so.
Its self LK that I don't use. If I'm going to be rescued I'll be raised before I decay, and if I'm not going to be rescued 30 minutes is quite long enough to wait for decay without putting another 10 on top of it.
What I'd like to see is Voln powers matching the thoughtnet, not yet more thoughtnet advantages over Voln. NEED and THOUGHT ought to be able to reach those you can think to while alive, let alone while dead. You can see a couple of Volners on ESP WHO LOCAL and none of them will see your symbols.
Its self LK that I don't use. If I'm going to be rescued I'll be raised before I decay, and if I'm not going to be rescued 30 minutes is quite long enough to wait for decay without putting another 10 on top of it.
What I'd like to see is Voln powers matching the thoughtnet, not yet more thoughtnet advantages over Voln. NEED and THOUGHT ought to be able to reach those you can think to while alive, let alone while dead. You can see a couple of Volners on ESP WHO LOCAL and none of them will see your symbols.
DAID
Re: Thinking while dead
01/23/2015 03:50 PM CST
>Its self LK that I don't use. If I'm going to be rescued I'll be raised before I decay, and if I'm not going to be rescued 30 minutes
No race has a timer of 30 minutes. Halflings do as well as the best (I think?) at 16 minutes.
I appreciate and note your reply, as Voln members in theory have the most to lose. Not that matching Voln net to the ESP system which is utterly made irrelevant by LNet while dead seems like a compelling argument to me.
I'm tired right now, and will try to think about this more later. Mostly, I think Symbol of Thought is about as silly as it was now as 20 years ago, and that there's a reason they made tkaro root and sea shells once upon a time.
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
No race has a timer of 30 minutes. Halflings do as well as the best (I think?) at 16 minutes.
I appreciate and note your reply, as Voln members in theory have the most to lose. Not that matching Voln net to the ESP system which is utterly made irrelevant by LNet while dead seems like a compelling argument to me.
I'm tired right now, and will try to think about this more later. Mostly, I think Symbol of Thought is about as silly as it was now as 20 years ago, and that there's a reason they made tkaro root and sea shells once upon a time.
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
VANKRASN39
Re: Thinking while dead
01/23/2015 05:36 PM CST
>No race has a timer of 30 minutes. Halflings do as well as the best (I think?) at 16 minutes.
16 minutes would be 32 min in the Rift
RATHBONER
Re: Thinking while dead
01/24/2015 04:55 AM CST
>I appreciate and note your reply, as Voln members in theory have the most to lose. Not that matching Voln net to the ESP system which is utterly made irrelevant by LNet while dead seems like a compelling argument to me.
You can choose to treat death OOC if you like. I don't and I don't think making it OOC for everyone rather than just LNet users would be an improvement.
>16 minutes would be 32 min in the Rift
It is indeed 32 minutes of watching zombies script past for a halfling in the Rift
You can choose to treat death OOC if you like. I don't and I don't think making it OOC for everyone rather than just LNet users would be an improvement.
>16 minutes would be 32 min in the Rift
It is indeed 32 minutes of watching zombies script past for a halfling in the Rift
KEITHOBAD
Re: Thinking while dead
01/24/2015 04:57 AM CST
That's kinda the point of the suggestion. If you have a mechanism in world, it wouldn't need to be OOC anymore. (Ie: a spooooky spirit channel on ESP)
DAID
Re: Thinking while dead
01/26/2015 09:48 AM CST
>That's kinda the point of the suggestion. If you have a mechanism in world, it wouldn't need to be OOC anymore. (Ie: a spooooky spirit channel on ESP)
Exactly. Is it being suggested that if an ESP option was added for our spirits to think while dead (they already talk!), some people would treat a new game mechanic that is IC as OOC because "it used to be OOC"? I'd think someone who is used to decaying in the Rift after 30 minutes and refuses to use OOC mechanics to deal with it would be more in favor to make it IC than others.
But I absolutely respect that this can step on the toes of existing Voln features, and we really only needed one person to chime in for me to respectfully back away from continue pushing the topic too much.
It does make me wonder what kinds of specific improvements we can make to Voln symbols that would be worthwhile. Voln did just get an overhaul not too long ago, but I'm not sure if things like symbol of thought, sight, and need got touched in that review.
For what it's worth, I used to treat death entirely IC. But even "bit the dust" messaging seems OOC to me. Do you turn off death notifications? If not, how do you imagine this game-wide messaging functions within the genre? At the end of the day, for myself, some years ago, I decided that not asking my friends to rescue me OOC was too huge a penalty for my enjoyment of the game (enough to make or break the occasional month's subscription payment). I only say that last sentence to reflect my own opinions, and not those of others. But, during the long years I did attempt to treat it 100% IC (before thinking that "bit the dust" is already OOC probably but I'd had the flag running all those years), in contrast to Rathboner's statement, I would have jumped on a chance to see it become more IC.
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
Exactly. Is it being suggested that if an ESP option was added for our spirits to think while dead (they already talk!), some people would treat a new game mechanic that is IC as OOC because "it used to be OOC"? I'd think someone who is used to decaying in the Rift after 30 minutes and refuses to use OOC mechanics to deal with it would be more in favor to make it IC than others.
But I absolutely respect that this can step on the toes of existing Voln features, and we really only needed one person to chime in for me to respectfully back away from continue pushing the topic too much.
It does make me wonder what kinds of specific improvements we can make to Voln symbols that would be worthwhile. Voln did just get an overhaul not too long ago, but I'm not sure if things like symbol of thought, sight, and need got touched in that review.
For what it's worth, I used to treat death entirely IC. But even "bit the dust" messaging seems OOC to me. Do you turn off death notifications? If not, how do you imagine this game-wide messaging functions within the genre? At the end of the day, for myself, some years ago, I decided that not asking my friends to rescue me OOC was too huge a penalty for my enjoyment of the game (enough to make or break the occasional month's subscription payment). I only say that last sentence to reflect my own opinions, and not those of others. But, during the long years I did attempt to treat it 100% IC (before thinking that "bit the dust" is already OOC probably but I'd had the flag running all those years), in contrast to Rathboner's statement, I would have jumped on a chance to see it become more IC.
>Kayse scrambles to avoid being sucked into the void!
