I believe it was stated that while there would be fewer cycles, they would each be stronger? It remains to be seen if that's an improvement or further nerfing over all.

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but 1x ML:Manipulation and 1x SL: Summoning would be CHEAPER than 2x EL: Fire.

You're not wrong, they're cheaper.

You're wrong that you think that they're equivalent. When comparing the two spells, 1x ELF == 1x MLM+1x SLS. 2x ELF would == 2xMLM&2xSLS.

A minor mental error, you're thought, for some reason, that each rank in ELF could only work for one part of immolation, and not both parts simultaneously.

@Aspen

There's an erroneous assumption that # of spells impacted directly correlates into the total hunting efficiency gained. Given how classes tend to gravitate towards only a few main spells for hunting purposes, the other enhanced spells have an increased likelihood of being superfluous.

The ability to select 5 spells that you want to buff twice can trump buffing 14 spells that you have no control over.

~Whirlin

>Right now, for the lore benefit, we're looking to add some synergy to the spell with bolting. As such, when you cast 502, it will cause the target to be susceptible to follow-up bolt attacks. The lore benefit would only last a few seconds, but enough time to get 1 or 2 bolts in. We're looking at a (2 * seed 1 summation) such that, at 55 lore ranks, the target gets -20 DS, 105 lore would be -28 DS, etc. The bolts that gain the bonus are dependent upon what element was used with 502. If water (cold crit) was used (either due to random or because of attunement), it will cause the target to have a -DS penalty for the next Minor Water (903), Major Cold (907), or Minor Cold (1709). -Estild

This is a neat concept. Maybe we could add some other effects onto it. Not that the DS penalty isn't good (despite being kind of vanilla), but why not throw in a <insert formula that hopefully isn't a seed / 10> to give the caster a chance for a double or even triple cast while the 502 effect is active and/or pin some sort of status effect onto them, based on the element used?

Another mechanic that already exists that I think is going to huge waste is...I don't know what it's called. But in the Stronghold if you cast fire at something, it heats them up (despite those critters being immune to fire, but let's ignore that for simplicity's sake) and then follow it up with water or acid, the rapid cooling effect after being heated up makes them take 2 or 3 hits of damage for a decent amount.

I think stuff like that should be a base feature of elemental bolt spells, to be honest. It gives us reasons to mix up our spells while not being some overpowered I win button either. It would also help out with this whole attrition garbage that we're going to be severely weakened on with Rapid Fire's incoming nerf. And it would make bolt hunting in general a lot more fun and interesting than it currently is.

>How about a TD pushdown for 519? Briefly, after 502 hits with fire?

The problem is if you're having trouble warding something, you'd still have to ward it in order to push its TD down, which is kind of self defeating.

Question before I forget: Is 502 intended to be a direct combat spell, or is it going to be used as more of a setup for other spells to capitalize on?

>There is a disabling version of the spell - it's damage will be reduced over existing 519 (though it will still be decent), but it's ability to be used as a disabler will work in much same way that the current version works. This is to preserve use by people that need it in this manner. It will invoke RT on the cast and keep the creature occupied with fiery goodness.

I don't suppose we could get a reduced mana cost on the evoke version huh?

>Then CS needs to have -50 when you're knocked over, -20 when you're stunned, etc. -Virilneus


Sure why not. I don't typically cast spells when I'm stunned anyway, so that -20 wouldn't matter. And I don't typically cast while lying down either. Or how about this...in order to cast with your full CS, you have to be in offensive now, and your CS in guarded will be like 84. Sounds fair, right?

I don't know why everything has to be a sorcerer vs. wizard pissing contest. Be happy with what you have. We're just trying to not get nerfed into the ground over here.

I think if nothing else, either casting 502 on yourself (as a buff of course, not blasting yourself) should allow you to aim your next bolt, or casting 502 on something will let your next bolt vs. that target to be aimed, with success rate based on blah blah blah.

That puts it on par with roundtimes for aimed melee and ranged attacks. You're spending 6 seconds minimum to aim one bolt. Tell me what's so overpowered about that.

>I'm not sure why people assume I meant the spell would be more available to low level mages. I specifically said that non-202 lored mages would be able to utilize the improved base version of it. Low level mages will also be able to use it, but they will be limited by their mana pools much like low level sorcerers can use 720 but are limited. -Viduus

Doesn't focused 720 get some sort of mana discount though, at least based on X training? I'm too lazy to look it up but I could swear I remembered some sorcerer friends casting FI for like 8 or 12 mana or something in that range. I know DC does, but pretty sure FI has it to some extent too.

>Yes..yes..yes...YES, I understand, some noob just broke level 100 person (1x capped people are the new noobs) who doesn't have two silvers to rub together probably isn't going to do well in the scatter with bolts (or anything else). I'm not sure they're supposed to. We keep getting new postcap hunting areas, but the level cap is still 100, and yet they obviously have varying difficulties... could it be some of the areas are meant for more well equipped/trained level 100 people?

Pretty sure Simu stated somewhere in this folder recently that things aren't balanced around people having enhancives and whatnot, probably not. Which, I'm guessing is why Estild mentioned something about possibly taking a look at some critters' bolt DS, mainly in places like the Rift/Scatter if I'm remembering correctly.

>Younger wizards, middle level wizards, still get hit and die. They would find much more value in a spell that keeps them from dying, vs a spell that allows them to more quickly kill things. Defense is always more valuable.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, fast killing is my best defense.

>Wow! I left my PC for an hour and came back to almost 50 new posts that said the exact same thing as the last 50 posts, but with the nouns and verbs in different order.

>Its like one of those hamster wheels they keep running around but never get anywhere. -Goldenoak2

I could swear I've seen you make posts just like that one but with different nouns and verbs, just without the leaving your PC for an hour part.

>Another thing about CS-disablers is that they last FOREVER. Take a look at the duration of MjS spells. They're all crazy long.

I was pretty disappointed in the Sleep change. Instead of that groggy effect, giving the target a chance to not wake up from an attack would be a lot better. Can't say it's OP because you have spells like Bind that let you beat on things like crazy. Unless that changed and I missed it.

>I would like to implement some unique, awe-inspiring abilities for each lore in the 150-200 range to give a nice reward to those who dedicate themselves. -Estild

That would be pretty awesome if done right.

>For myself I say throw out your chips. Lets get into it, lets get our hands dirty, THEN lets debate about it. -Chad

Except a) Once it's done it would probably be years before it got touched again in any significant manner and b) GMs said they want our feedback.

~ Methais

Just thought I'd bump this because we're curious. Except for the people who aren't curious.

~ Methais

Don't speak for me!!!!!?!?!?!????!!!!!!11111!!!!!

Except that I'm curious, too.

-Taakhooshi, and Me

For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi

>There's an erroneous assumption that # of spells impacted directly correlates into the total hunting efficiency gained. Given how classes tend to gravitate towards only a few main spells for hunting purposes, the other enhanced spells have an increased likelihood of being superfluous.

>The ability to select 5 spells that you want to buff twice can trump buffing 14 spells that you have no control over.

No, nice try, but no. You're trying so hard but you're way off in the weeds here. Define "hunting efficiency" for example? Are you talking about killing things, or not being killed? What about a utility spell that indirectly improves your ability to kill things or not get killed? Then you've got cap blinders on and forget that, over the levels, there are a far wider range of hunting areas that exist at cap. Then ultimately you're of the opinion that because YOU don't use something, no one does, and the benefit doesn't matter. You also don't seem to think the same thing occurs to other professions, As if a wizard isn't going to get "real use" out of every spell modified by fire lore, but a sorcerer is going to get "real use" out of every spell modified by blessing lore, or demonology (I haven't cast torment in 10 years), or... fire lore?

No matter how you slice it, having more spells get a bonus from a single rank in a single lore is BETTER than having fewer spells get said bonus. To argue the contrary is insanity.

>I think you missed the point... you start off by saying that the number of spells that are being modified by a lore is the most important value, regardless of all other factors, but then continue to say that not all spells modified by a lore matter because you don't cast them? That's exactly my point. Not all spells modified by lores matter. There's a lot of value in having the ability to choose what spells you want to strengthen.

Uhh no, you were saying that. I was putting on my Whirlin hat and restating your argument in my argument against it.

Also kill::death ratios for the various classes in several level tiers. I doubt wizards top the list in a way that would justify a triple ubernerf. I find it hard to imagine they coffee out ahead of bards, empath and paladins. Wizards are strong vs rt but weak against stun, I'm not sure why that has suddenly become unacceptably imbalanced. Are we getting a get out of stun free card like those other profs I mentioned?

My wizard is 86 and can't really afford lores. I guess I can alter my training path.

TBH this all still stinks in my eyes. I've waited 10 days or so to wait and see what comes out of the ELR. I'm anticipating a loss in effectiveness of my best spells, but nothing I've seen has made a spell better for the sake of the spell being better.. Every useful "upgrade" has had a "but there's a catch" attached to it up to this point. What a waste of time that I've spent building this character up. Feel bad for the 2-3x capped wizards who have dumped resources into their characters who are about to be gimped.

>>I'm kinda itching to roll a pure, why I ask.<<

The ELR is pretty much over and has been a big "meh". With many of the lore changes being either minor, useless (stone skin) or impossible to achieve (seed 10), it hasn't made me change my training a bit.

The big 3 wizard spell nerfs are not related to ELR, and have thankfully been put on hold while Simu re-evaluates their effects on the profession. Hence, I cannot give a recommendation at this time. However, if you want a pure, you can't go wrong with a cleric or an empath.

Yeah, small % abilities with ridiculous seeds is a pretty unsatisfying result for the TPs spent. Having tier-style abilities like with locate, 704, disk, haste, 505 (none of which were done in this review, mind you) etc.. are both more interesting and more satisfying.

Sadly the few times they did go that direction, the abilities they chose have the practical usefulness of a claidhmore made of wet noodle (402, 405, 916).


On the topic of future ~positive~ changes, I'd also like to see the 513 penalty to warmages removed. Give us that and 909, then forget about the rest of the planned nonsense.