A hunch-backed dogmatist nods her head toward you!

Particles of dust and soot rise from the floor at a hunch-backed dogmatist's feet as she releases a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward you!

CS: +320 - TD: +312 + CvA: +14 + d100: +94 - -5 == +121

Warding failed!

You are cloaked in a blinding platinum light and assailed for 41 points of damage!

... 30 points of damage!

Your eye is blown out of socket by powerful bolt of plasma!

You are stunned for 10 rounds!

... 10 points of damage!

Powerful burst to your back causes excruciating pain.

... 10 points of damage!

Blistering strike to leg shrivels skin and causes excruciating pain.

When is this overpowered spell going to be nerfed?

91 damage and 10 round stun from a 121 endroll? What would the results of a 121 endroll do from a 519 cast?

I've received 138 damage and an 8 round stun from this same spell.

Please Nerf immediately.

The spell in question is Divine Fury (317).

Your long stun had less to do with the endroll and more to do with the fact that you got hit in the eye.

A hunch-backed dogmatist nods her head toward you!

Particles of dust and soot rise from the floor at a hunch-backed dogmatist's feet as she releases a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward you!

CS: +311 - TD: +277 + CvA: +14 + d100: +55 - -5 == +108

Warding failed!

You are cloaked in a blinding platinum light and assailed for 45 points of damage!

... 20 points of damage!

Wreath of energy burns away your hair and leaves skin blackened!

You are stunned for 8 rounds!

... 15 points of damage!

Your hand blisters and bleeds from intense heat.

8 round stun from a 108 endroll.

A hunch-backed dogmatist nods his head toward you!

Particles of dust and soot rise from the floor at a hunch-backed dogmatist's feet as he releases a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward you!

CS: +305 - TD: +264 + CvA: +14 + d100: +68 - -5 == +128

Warding failed!

You are cloaked in a blinding platinum light and assailed for 63 points of damage!

... 50 points of damage!

You are sliced open neatly by brilliant beam of plasma!

You are stunned for 8 rounds!

... 10 points of damage!

Plasma lashes your shield arm blistering flesh.

... 15 points of damage!

Dazzling arc of energy traces blackened path across your chest!

8 round stun and 138 damage from a 128 endroll.


Clearly this is a massively overpowered spell. Look at the 4 damage cycles.

I'm fully spelled, I'm even underhunting at this point, and they can insta-kill with 1 kill.

What kind of armor?

Chad, player of a few

I'm a Wizard, so full leather is the best I get.

It would be nice if the ELR actually added some benefits that Wizards need, like additional TD so we can hunt Spiritual casters below our level without being insta-killed.

Reply Reply

Could always come to the rift and have some fun. The area is built around being self spelled so as long as you aren't spell tanking now it wouldn't be too terrible. You would get warded, and 705 can certainly hurt, but I never took 100+ damage in a single cast.

I started plane 1 at 69th train. But to contrast that I also have started the confluence at 89th, so my preception of an acceptable level of risk may be a bit skewed compared to the norm.

Tal.

You also have a permablessed weapon, which makes undead just like any other creature for the most part.

There's no reason that a spell should be doing so much damage with such low end rolls. The spell is overpowered and since overpowered spells are being nerfed, this one has to go.

I haven't used a sonic while hunting undead since... well, ever. Sonics weren't 2x permablessed against undead when I started, and now I can afford to shell out 35k for a 4x weapon and get it blessed (the blesses of some of Icemule's clerics last a loooooong time, and the holy water flares really are nice).

As far as nerfing goes... isn't immolate being nerfed to be approximately on par with this spell?

Tal.

519 without lores is very underwhelming on the damage side. Part of the change is supposed to be making the spell actually worth casting without having a huge number of tps invested in fire lore. For non-fire mages the spell should end up stronger than it is now.

Tal.

Notice the CvAs.

Armor is a big part of this game. I'd suggest double leather. The 4% hindrence isn't that bad and you'll be better protected for the TPs spent.

Chad, player of a few

>Why does 317 do so much damage on such low endrolls? Why don't I see similar damage from 519?

the changes haven't been implemented yet, perhaps?

Well, if 519 is supposed to be "overpowered" currently, then 317 is massively overpowered currently.

You gesture at an emaciated hierophant.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an emaciated hierophant suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +370 - TD: +298 + CvA: +20 + d100: +55 == +147
Warding failed!
Wisps of black smoke swirl around an emaciated hierophant and she bursts into flame!
... 25 points of damage!
Abdomen bursts into flames. Would be funny without the blood.
The emaciated hierophant is stunned!
... 20 points of damage!
Nasty burns to right arm. Gonna need lots of butter.
The flames around an emaciated hierophant continue to burn!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


147 endroll, 45 damage.

You gesture at a hunch-backed dogmatist.
CS: +370 - TD: +322 + CvA: +25 + d100: +86 == +159
Warding failed!
Wisps of black smoke swirl around a hunch-backed dogmatist and he bursts into flame!
... 25 points of damage!
Flames incinerate left leg to the bone. Not a pleasant sight.
The hunch-backed dogmatist is stunned!
... 30 points of damage!
Flames cook a hunch-backed dogmatist's chest. Looks about medium well.


159 endroll, 55 damage.


With 317, it was:
121 endroll for 91 damage and a 10 round stun.
108 endroll for 80 damage and an 8 round stun.
128 endroll for 138 damage and an 8 round stun.

So my endrolls with 519 were 20-30 higher and produced half the damage. Notice my 2 damage cycles, vs the 3-4 damage cycles from 317.

So if 519 is overpowered in it's CURRENT implementation, how is 317 not massively overpowered?

---

I'll bite.

First, feel free to keep testing. I think people have knee jerk reactions to this spell both offensively and defensively so verifying it's results only helps the discussion.

Having said that, your posts are obviously heavily biased. I'll note the immolation cast is pretty much a 0 lore cast with only 2 strikes. Maybe it was cast by someone with more lore, but the end result is that of a 0 lore caster due to any additional cycles being removed from the post. I'll also note that while you mention 8-10 round stuns with various endrolls for 317, you don't mention the inability to do anything but roll around on the ground while 519 is in effect. I personally find 519's effect to be more debilitating than a stun as the only real solution to 519 is time, not getting unstunned.

Now, as to your point about 317. I said in the mage folder, we're looking to improve the baseline version of the spell to bring it more in line with 317/1115/etc. Your clip doesn't really contradict the need for that, if anything it enforces the fact the spell sucks for 0 lore casters with evidence. A cast of 519 (with it's current implementation) with 0 lore will always suck in comparison to a cast of 317 or 1115. Currently 519 is pretty much a brute-force method. You take a crappy flare with a small chance of a crit kill and keep using it, eventually you'll get lucky. Right now it's roughly the same as getting 2 drake falchion flares at 0 lore, and 5 at 202 lore. It's flashy because it scrolls screens but it's only brute forcing damage/crits in the <175 endroll range.

What you're losing is a flashy brute force spell. What you're gaining is a viable CS path that doesn't require all of your lore training to be viable, but can be further enhanced by doing so. You're getting a spell that will be perfectly use-able at 0 lore, and increasingly nicer with more.

The consequences of that mean that all mages will have a CS spell they can use to kill things, not just devoted fire mages. It also means that immolation build mages (those that choose to beef up the spell) won't be excluded from getting supplementary lores in other elements because they won't have to go to 202 fire lore ranks just to make the spell work like other class's baseline versions. This is something that would be a problem if we just left 519 as-is.

Is 317 overpowered? I don't think so, I think it's a good baseline spell.

Viduus

<<<Is 317 overpowered? I don't think so, I think it's a good baseline spell.>>>

Thank you for that refreshing moment of sanity. :)

~ GtG

You can't really compare the effects of CS based spells (or for that matter maneuver type spells) cast by creatures with those cast by players. Creatures are well trained in the relevant lores; that Dogmatist probably has a ton of clerical lore. Take stone fist from the Iloke lovers in the Bowels; most PC wizards can't even come close to matching those results. Mine sure can't, and she has 72 ranks of earth lore.

I get decent damage from 317 with my cleric, but one shot kills are fairly rare. On the other hand, she only has 66 ranks of clerical lore. That Dogmatist probably had more.

To get a fairer comparison of the two spells, maybe you could try trading casts with a cleric of your own level, who has a similar amount of clerical lore to your fire lore. (Best to have an empath waiting in the wings).

The .5x was posted as a baseline amount. That language implies that there exists (or at least could exist at some point in the future) creatures where that doesn't hold true.

Tal.

Does boil earth take 900 ranks into account? Critters likely have more of those because wizards generally prefer 500s CS. Thats another reaon why critters are usually better at spells in some circles, they don't sacrifice a lot of ability in one circle for a moderate bonus in another.

I wonder what creature baselines are for training in PT, CM, Perception... if they have action penalty or non-perfect dex/agi. It seems like a lot of the difference could be in things like that as opposed to the spells being inherently modified.

Tal.

>>Take stone fist from the Iloke lovers in the Bowels; most PC wizards can't even come close to matching those results. Mine sure can't, and she has 72 ranks of earth lore.

Earth Lore doesn't boost (last I heard) the power of the spell. It just gives you access to "better" abilities the spell can deal out.

I've got 124 ranks in Earth Lore on my wizard, and he can't dish out the results that I've seen creatures do with the same or similar spell.

-Drumpel

According to the wiki, at least, 900's isn't a factor. Although I just noticed you're paying another 5 mana for any extra crit cycles on it due to fire lore, what a gyp.

<<<Take stone fist from the Iloke lovers in the Bowels; most PC wizards can't even come close to matching those results. Mine sure can't, and she has 72 ranks of earth lore.>>>

They are magical creatures, made from stone, that live in the bowels of the earth. Their abilities are innate. I think it's fair to expect their earth-based attacks to be considerably more deadly than your average wizard...even a really magnificent one.

~ GtG

>So, what you're saying is that an earth attuned wizard, 2x exclusively in earth lore, in other words, his life dedicated to studying earth, can still never hope to match an average monster.

Yeah, If I lift weights and inject steroids I should be as strong as godzilla. If I'm not this is obviously wrong. How could monsters be stronger than my character! Every time I fight a monster who has a higher AS than my character, even if he's 2x weapon, 2x CM I'm going to be angry now. Thanks for clarifying that for me. That's a really useful opinion there.

We get it, you're a GM cheerleader. However, it is possible to have a middle ground. There are some folks on here who do find that middle ground of fairly praising and critiquing.

-Taakhooshi, and Me

For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi

I don't find Taakhooshi to be acting like Chicken Little. He's advocating a middle road where we try and discuss these changes based on the merits rather than "It's not super-powered so it sucks" NOR "Well +1DS for 200 ranks is better than nothing, yay!".

I think his position is perfectly reasonable.

There are quite a few ELR changes I find to be rather lackluster (402,405,501,520,512,508), others I think are really nice additions (905,414,415,911,418,417,507,903,504). The ones I left out fall into the slightly disappointing middling category: (920,425,516,901/910,412,916,407,408,416,503, and the rest of the bolt changes).

Now some of that is partly the base spell itself is freakin terrible (512, I'm looking at you! 916 isn't far behind!) and it just really saddens me that they couldn't use the ELR momentum to get the spell boosted. Look at slow and the proposed 909 for good examples of what I really wanted. 504 is by no means amazing, but it moved up from 'terrible' to 'very situational'. That's something!

Without players complaining, it's unlikely 418 would have gotten the probability improvement which moved it from bad to good. Or the 508 creature-nerf that prevented this from being an overall wizard nerf. Proper feedback is important yo!